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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 25, 2017 15:25:34 GMT -6
But they couldn't attend Crowley high because they lived in Jeff Davis Parish. You can't deny the difference. The question was do public and private schools have the same rules, and they do. Period. Many people from Elton went to Kinder, according to the rules that shouldn't happen either. Not true again. Yes, Kinder has had a few players from Elton over the years, but all have been approved and above boards, therefore well within the rules.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Jul 25, 2017 15:31:01 GMT -6
Are attendance zones LHSAA rules or individual School Board rules? I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe attendence zones are a state issue. If it's not a LHSAA rule, then that's a problem for the local school boards not the LHSAA. I think this is the problem that most of the private/non-split supporters are trying to say. The private schools have been living within the rules that the LHSAA had put out for them, just like the public schools (most not all both sides).
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Post by indy on Jul 25, 2017 15:31:57 GMT -6
The question was do public and private schools have the same rules, and they do. Period. Many people from Elton went to Kinder, according to the rules that shouldn't happen either. Not true again. Yes, Kinder has had a few players from Elton over the years, but all have been approved and above boards, therefore well within the rules. Well I can assure you everyone that came to ND was within the rules, so again public and private schools have the same rules. As long as you have you will never understand.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Jul 25, 2017 15:32:33 GMT -6
The question was do public and private schools have the same rules, and they do. Period. Many people from Elton went to Kinder, according to the rules that shouldn't happen either. Not true again. Yes, Kinder has had a few players from Elton over the years, but all have been approved and above boards, therefore well within the rules. Just like kids who go to Menard in Alexandria. If they transfer after freshman year they sit out a year, if start at the school as first highschool (school of choice) then they are immediately eligible. Pretty sure this is accurate.
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 25, 2017 15:33:35 GMT -6
I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe attendence zones are a state issue. If it's not a LHSAA rule, then that's a problem for the local school boards not the LHSAA. I think this is the problem that most of the private/non-split supporters are trying to say. The private schools have been living within the rules that the LHSAA had put out for them, just like the public schools (most not all both sides). I honestly agree with your point. I'm only saying that this isn't a legal issue. If it's going to be changed, the members voted are going to be what changes it.
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 25, 2017 15:35:17 GMT -6
Not true again. Yes, Kinder has had a few players from Elton over the years, but all have been approved and above boards, therefore well within the rules. Just like kids who go to Menard in Alexandria. If they transfer after freshman year they sit out a year, if start at the school as first highschool (school of choice) then they are immediately eligible. Pretty sure this is accurate. Right. I understand that, but by the rules a kid from Kinder can go to Menard sit out his freshman year and play as a sopre. A kid from Kinder can not attend Alexandria High. That's the difference on rules.
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 25, 2017 15:36:28 GMT -6
Not true again. Yes, Kinder has had a few players from Elton over the years, but all have been approved and above boards, therefore well within the rules. Well I can assure you everyone that came to ND was within the rules, so again public and private schools have the same rules. As long as you have you will never understand. I understand completely. I never said Norte Dame was breaking any rules, only that their rules are different. I don't what you are missing here.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Jul 25, 2017 15:36:41 GMT -6
If it's not a LHSAA rule, then that's a problem for the local school boards not the LHSAA. I think this is the problem that most of the private/non-split supporters are trying to say. The private schools have been living within the rules that the LHSAA had put out for them, just like the public schools (most not all both sides). I honestly agree with your point. I'm only saying that this isn't a legal issue. If it's going to be changed, the members voted are going to be what changes it. You're probably correct, this is just showing that there may be a problem with the way the split was implemented that the "right" judge may look at it and say that the LHSAA has to start over.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Jul 25, 2017 15:40:41 GMT -6
Just like kids who go to Menard in Alexandria. If they transfer after freshman year they sit out a year, if start at the school as first highschool (school of choice) then they are immediately eligible. Pretty sure this is accurate. Right. I understand that, but by the rules a kid from Kinder can go to Menard sit out his freshman year and play as a sopre. A kid from Kinder can not attend Alexandria High. That's the difference on rules. But that's the way the rules are set up in the LHSAA. It isn't the private schools fault. It goes back to who made the rules, local school boards are the reason for this. If this was the problem then the Principal's should have voted that all schools in the association have to adhere to the school board rules in the Parish they are in. If they have kids from outside that zone there was already a multiplier on the books that could have been used.
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Post by indy on Jul 25, 2017 15:41:53 GMT -6
Just like kids who go to Menard in Alexandria. If they transfer after freshman year they sit out a year, if start at the school as first highschool (school of choice) then they are immediately eligible. Pretty sure this is accurate. Right. I understand that, but by the rules a kid from Kinder can go to Menard sit out his freshman year and play as a sopre. A kid from Kinder can not attend Alexandria High. That's the difference on rules. Yes he can. They can move or enroll in their feeder system in the 7th grade. And why would they want to? I get why kids from Elton just a few miles away want to go to Kinder, but you are delusional to think someone from Kinder would want to go to Alex. They may have a school on the moon someday and I'm guessing you will be crying about lunar zones. Geez you have the worst case of
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 25, 2017 15:43:42 GMT -6
I honestly agree with your point. I'm only saying that this isn't a legal issue. If it's going to be changed, the members voted are going to be what changes it. You're probably correct, this is just showing that there may be a problem with the way the split was implemented that the "right" judge may look at it and say that the LHSAA has to start over. As a fan of high school football, I would love to the LHSAA hit the restart button. I have no problem with Kinder and Norte Dame being in the same division, but when Evangel is playing district games against (insert any mediocre AA team) something had to change. Instead of fighting against the few that were ruining things, the private schools stuck together and made it a package deal back in 97. That was their mistake.
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 25, 2017 15:46:25 GMT -6
Right. I understand that, but by the rules a kid from Kinder can go to Menard sit out his freshman year and play as a sopre. A kid from Kinder can not attend Alexandria High. That's the difference on rules. Yes he can. They can move or enroll in their feeder system in the 7th grade. And why would they want to? I get why kids from Elton just a few miles away want to go to Kinder, but you are delusional to think someone from Kinder would want to go to Alex. They may have a school on the moon someday and I'm guessing you will be crying about lunar zones. Geez you have the worst case of You're just making crap up now.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Jul 25, 2017 15:50:41 GMT -6
You're probably correct, this is just showing that there may be a problem with the way the split was implemented that the "right" judge may look at it and say that the LHSAA has to start over. As a fan of high school football, I would love to the LHSAA hit the restart button. I have no problem with Kinder and Norte Dame being in the same division, but when Evangel is playing district games against (insert any mediocre AA team) something had to change. Instead of fighting against the few that were ruining things, the private schools stuck together and made it a package deal back in 97. That was their mistake. Not sure what you're referring to "package deal in 97". If possible could you enlighten me or tell me where I can go to see what you are talking about. The only thing I could find is that it was ruled that home-schooled kids could participate in sports at the school they are zoned for and that kids that are at (predominately Catholic Elementary/Middle schools) that don't have a Catholic High School in the Parish could go to the nearest Catholic High School and be immediately eligible.
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 25, 2017 15:55:55 GMT -6
As a fan of high school football, I would love to the LHSAA hit the restart button. I have no problem with Kinder and Norte Dame being in the same division, but when Evangel is playing district games against (insert any mediocre AA team) something had to change. Instead of fighting against the few that were ruining things, the private schools stuck together and made it a package deal back in 97. That was their mistake. Not sure what you're referring to "package deal in 97". If possible could you enlighten me or tell me where I can go to see what you are talking about. The only thing I could find is that it was ruled that home-schooled kids could participate in sports at the school they are zoned for and that kids that are at (predominately Catholic Elementary/Middle schools) that don't have a Catholic High School in the Parish could go to the nearest Catholic High School and be immediately eligible. The first vote on the split took place in either 97 or 98. John Curtis said that if the split was instituted, he would pull every athletic program from his school and the majority of private schools followed his lead. Not long after that, the powers that be, voted to no longer allow schools like John Curtis and Evangel to voluntoplay up in classification. Since the 4A and 5A schools had the numbers, there was nothing the 1A and 2A teams could do, but vote for a unilateral split.
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Post by chalmetteowl on Jul 25, 2017 17:43:03 GMT -6
Not sure what you're referring to "package deal in 97". If possible could you enlighten me or tell me where I can go to see what you are talking about. The only thing I could find is that it was ruled that home-schooled kids could participate in sports at the school they are zoned for and that kids that are at (predominately Catholic Elementary/Middle schools) that don't have a Catholic High School in the Parish could go to the nearest Catholic High School and be immediately eligible. The first vote on the split took place in either 97 or 98. John Curtis said that if the split was instituted, he would pull every athletic program from his school and the majority of private schools followed his lead. Not long after that, the powers that be, voted to no longer allow schools like John Curtis and Evangel to voluntoplay up in classification. Since the 4A and 5A schools had the numbers, there was nothing the 1A and 2A teams could do, but vote for a unilateral split. it wasn't just 1A and 2A that voted... probably 90% of public schools regardless of class supported the split the 25% rule for out of zone kids is too high. it needs to be 1% because 1 or 2 kids can skew the competition horribly in the lower classifications
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 25, 2017 17:50:43 GMT -6
The first vote on the split took place in either 97 or 98. John Curtis said that if the split was instituted, he would pull every athletic program from his school and the majority of private schools followed his lead. Not long after that, the powers that be, voted to no longer allow schools like John Curtis and Evangel to voluntoplay up in classification. Since the 4A and 5A schools had the numbers, there was nothing the 1A and 2A teams could do, but vote for a unilateral split. it wasn't just 1A and 2A that voted... probably 90% of public schools regardless of class supported the split the 25% rule for out of zone kids is too high. it needs to be 1% because 1 or 2 kids can skew the competition horribly in the lower classifications That's what I meant when I said 4A and 5A already had the numbers, so 1A and 2A went along with it. That's why the vote ended up so high. And I agree with your point, I have no problem with strictly enforced attendance zones. That's the way it should be.
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Post by iknownuthing on Jul 26, 2017 8:31:12 GMT -6
I can name a few private schools that have one huge litmus test on who gets in and who doesn't. So not so smart football players get turned down and go to public schools. That's a huge advantage for private schools. Geez! Again has blurred your common sense. I have witnessed at STM an exceptional athlete was called in and the parents told he was not thriving academically. They agreed to give him a year to get his grades up, but when it became apparent it was not going to happen his parents transferred him to Lafayette high. He went on to be a starter there. Was it a good thing he transferred? Absolutely, because he could not do the work required at STM. I have seen parents pull their kids out of STM, because the GPA was going to be below TOPS requirement, then have them go on to earn tops, and starting jobs at both Comeaux and Lafayette High. Only to lose TOPS after a couple of semesters in college. You see one of the problem with TOPS is how GPA's are non standardized. When you have kids graduating from schools as valedictorian or in the top 10% of their grad class and unable to make a 16 on the ACT there is a problem. Not all 4.0's are equal.
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 26, 2017 8:40:02 GMT -6
So not so smart football players get turned down and go to public schools. That's a huge advantage for private schools. Geez! Again has blurred your common sense. I have witnessed at STM an exceptional athlete was called in and the parents told he was not thriving academically. They agreed to give him a year to get his grades up, but when it became apparent it was not going to happen his parents transferred him to Lafayette high. He went on to be a starter there. Was it a good thing he transferred? Absolutely, because he could not do the work required at STM. I have seen parents pull their kids out of STM, because the GPA was going to be below TOPS requirement, then have them go on to earn tops, and starting jobs at both Comeaux and Lafayette High. Only to lose TOPS after a couple of semesters in college. You see one of the problem with TOPS is how GPA's are non standardized. When you have kids graduating from schools as valedictorian or in the top 10% of their grad class and unable to make a 16 on the ACT there is a problem. Not all 4.0's are equal. The litmus test that I was speaking of has nothing to do with academics and everything to do with race. If you think that there are not schools out there who have unofficial quotas on certain minority groups, I have a bridge to sell you.
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Post by wildcat on Jul 26, 2017 9:47:39 GMT -6
Right. I understand that, but by the rules a kid from Kinder can go to Menard sit out his freshman year and play as a sopre. A kid from Kinder can not attend Alexandria High. That's the difference on rules. Yes he can. They can move or enroll in their feeder system in the 7th grade. And why would they want to? I get why kids from Elton just a few miles away want to go to Kinder, but you are delusional to think someone from Kinder would want to go to Alex. They may have a school on the moon someday and I'm guessing you will be crying about lunar zones. Geez you have the worst case of I think indy hit it on head here when he said "THEY CAN MOVE" from Kinder and be eligible for ASH and then they can play. Now on the flip side of that does the kid have to move from Kinder to play at Menard or is allowed to live in Kinder and play for Menard? I dont think anyone who lives in Kinder wants to play for Menard, he was using this as an example of how attendance zones are different for public and privates.
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 26, 2017 9:51:16 GMT -6
Yes he can. They can move or enroll in their feeder system in the 7th grade. And why would they want to? I get why kids from Elton just a few miles away want to go to Kinder, but you are delusional to think someone from Kinder would want to go to Alex. They may have a school on the moon someday and I'm guessing you will be crying about lunar zones. Geez you have the worst case of I think indy hit it on head here when he said "THEY CAN MOVE" from Kinder and be eligible for ASH and then they can play. Now on the flip side of that does the kid have to move from Kinder to play at Menard or is allowed to live in Kinder and play for Menard? I dont think anyone who lives in Kinder wants to play for Menard, he was using this as an example of how attendance zones are different for public and privates. Thank you. That was what I was trying to get at. One has to MOVE, the other doesn't. Until certain folks are willing to acknowledge that FACT, the whole split debate will never make any progress.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Jul 26, 2017 11:29:30 GMT -6
I think indy hit it on head here when he said "THEY CAN MOVE" from Kinder and be eligible for ASH and then they can play. Now on the flip side of that does the kid have to move from Kinder to play at Menard or is allowed to live in Kinder and play for Menard? I dont think anyone who lives in Kinder wants to play for Menard, he was using this as an example of how attendance zones are different for public and privates. Thank you. That was what I was trying to get at. One has to MOVE, the other doesn't. Until certain folks are willing to acknowledge that FACT, the whole split debate will never make any progress. The reason that the family has to move to be able to play at ASH is because of school boards. Like I said earlier, instead of "split" the principal's could have voted that all schools have to abide by the rules of the school board of the Parish they are located. Of course they voted for 25% of "out of zone" students as well.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Jul 26, 2017 11:31:06 GMT -6
I have witnessed at STM an exceptional athlete was called in and the parents told he was not thriving academically. They agreed to give him a year to get his grades up, but when it became apparent it was not going to happen his parents transferred him to Lafayette high. He went on to be a starter there. Was it a good thing he transferred? Absolutely, because he could not do the work required at STM. I have seen parents pull their kids out of STM, because the GPA was going to be below TOPS requirement, then have them go on to earn tops, and starting jobs at both Comeaux and Lafayette High. Only to lose TOPS after a couple of semesters in college. You see one of the problem with TOPS is how GPA's are non standardized. When you have kids graduating from schools as valedictorian or in the top 10% of their grad class and unable to make a 16 on the ACT there is a problem. Not all 4.0's are equal. The litmus test that I was speaking of has nothing to do with academics and everything to do with race. If you think that there are not schools out there who have unofficial quotas on certain minority groups, I have a bridge to sell you. I have been associated with only 3 private schools and none of them have any quotas that you are describing. If you are going to make a statement like that you need to back it up with facts, not innuendo.
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 26, 2017 11:36:13 GMT -6
The litmus test that I was speaking of has nothing to do with academics and everything to do with race. If you think that there are not schools out there who have unofficial quotas on certain minority groups, I have a bridge to sell you. I have been associated with only 3 private schools and none of them have any quotas that you are describing. If you are going to make a statement like that you need to back it up with facts, not innuendo. I am not saying all, but there are a few. For years St. Edmunds did not have a black student in the school (K-12), Do you know how many private schools formed in Louisiana as a direct result of integration. Many of those schools chose overtly suggestive mascots to drive that point home. Its very much a part of Louisiana history. I am not accusing your school, but there are plenty out there.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Jul 26, 2017 11:41:40 GMT -6
I have been associated with only 3 private schools and none of them have any quotas that you are describing. If you are going to make a statement like that you need to back it up with facts, not innuendo. I am not saying all, but there are a few. For years St. Edmunds did not have a black student in the school (K-12), Do you know how many private schools formed in Louisiana as a direct result of integration. Many of those schools chose overtly suggestive mascots to drive that point home. Its very much a part of Louisiana history. I am not accusing your school, but there are plenty out there. That may have been true in the past, but most rural private schools will take anyone that pass academically and pay the tuition. I personally don't know of one that won't.
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 26, 2017 11:46:35 GMT -6
I am not saying all, but there are a few. For years St. Edmunds did not have a black student in the school (K-12), Do you know how many private schools formed in Louisiana as a direct result of integration. Many of those schools chose overtly suggestive mascots to drive that point home. Its very much a part of Louisiana history. I am not accusing your school, but there are plenty out there. That may have been true in the past, but most rural private schools will take anyone that pass academically and pay the tuition. I personally don't know of one that won't. Look if you want to say otherwise that is fine. I am talking form experience. You asked for facts, so I gave you facts. I believe you when you say that you don't know of any that do, but I'm telling you that some do. For legal reasons, its obviously not as overt as it once was, but it does go on.
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Post by iknownuthing on Jul 26, 2017 11:49:25 GMT -6
I have witnessed at STM an exceptional athlete was called in and the parents told he was not thriving academically. They agreed to give him a year to get his grades up, but when it became apparent it was not going to happen his parents transferred him to Lafayette high. He went on to be a starter there. Was it a good thing he transferred? Absolutely, because he could not do the work required at STM. I have seen parents pull their kids out of STM, because the GPA was going to be below TOPS requirement, then have them go on to earn tops, and starting jobs at both Comeaux and Lafayette High. Only to lose TOPS after a couple of semesters in college. You see one of the problem with TOPS is how GPA's are non standardized. When you have kids graduating from schools as valedictorian or in the top 10% of their grad class and unable to make a 16 on the ACT there is a problem. Not all 4.0's are equal. The litmus test that I was speaking of has nothing to do with academics and everything to do with race. If you think that there are not schools out there who have unofficial quotas on certain minority groups, I have a bridge to sell you. Sorry, I think you may be grinding an un-provable personal axe. I do not know a single private school that has an agenda to keep out minorities. In fact, I know several that go out their way to bring in and recruit minorities.
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 26, 2017 11:53:59 GMT -6
The litmus test that I was speaking of has nothing to do with academics and everything to do with race. If you think that there are not schools out there who have unofficial quotas on certain minority groups, I have a bridge to sell you. Sorry, I think you may be grinding an un-provable personal axe. I do not know a single private school that has an agenda to keep out minorities. In fact, I know several that go out their way to bring in and recruit minorities. If it could be proven, the schools would be sued into non-existence and we would not be having this conversation. As I said before, if you chose not to believe it, fine, but it does happen.
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Post by iknownuthing on Jul 26, 2017 11:55:52 GMT -6
That may have been true in the past, but most rural private schools will take anyone that pass academically and pay the tuition. I personally don't know of one that won't. Look if you want to say otherwise that is fine. I am talking form experience. You asked for facts, so I gave you facts. I believe you when you say that you don't know of any that do, but I'm telling you that some do. For legal reasons, its obviously not as overt as it once was, but it does go on. Yes you are correct, that many private schools starting around 1970 sprung up as a knee jerk reaction to integration. Most failed within a few years. During that time period I went to a private school that was established in 1907 not 1970, and nearly 25% of that schools population was minority. But it had a far higher academic standard than what was being forced upon the public system here in Louisiana. When I entered that private school I had to be tutored in several subjects to get caught up to my classes standard.
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Post by LATigerFan on Jul 26, 2017 11:57:16 GMT -6
Notre Dame only recruits short white kids
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Post by iknownuthing on Jul 26, 2017 12:00:22 GMT -6
Notre Dame only recruits short white kids STM uses the same recruiting service. LOL....
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