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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Jul 31, 2017 10:02:05 GMT -6
They use to, but We are in a new era, with new rules (or lack of them) also competition has been removed, which leaves a handful of teams that benefit the most and they will reign. But You will have a revolving few new suspects in the mix. Right, but you still can't compare the success of a handful of schools to the dominance of one. The year before last, Welsh (a 3 seed) lost to a 19th seed in the second round. in 2015 Many was a 2 seed and an odds on favorite to make it back to the dome, but lost in the second round to Welsh. The gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" isn't as big as some are trying to make it and not nearly as bad as when the second best team had literally 0 chance to beat the best. Kinda like Div IV is now?
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Post by indy on Jul 31, 2017 10:07:13 GMT -6
They use to, but We are in a new era, with new rules (or lack of them) also competition has been removed, which leaves a handful of teams that benefit the most and they will reign. But You will have a revolving few new suspects in the mix. Right, but you still can't compare the success of a handful of schools to the dominance of one. The year before last, Welsh (a 3 seed) lost to a 19th seed in the second round. in 2015 Many was a 2 seed and an odds on favorite to make it back to the dome, but lost in the second round to Welsh. The gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" isn't as big as some are trying to make it and not nearly as bad as when the second best team had literally 0 chance to beat the best. Last year was an anomaly that will happen every so often with the timing of how they re-class. You basically had a medium and a large 3A schools playing for a 2A title. Remove them and you have Kinder, Many and maybe Welsh. Same this year and ad Amite to the mix.
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 31, 2017 10:43:57 GMT -6
Right, but you still can't compare the success of a handful of schools to the dominance of one. The year before last, Welsh (a 3 seed) lost to a 19th seed in the second round. in 2015 Many was a 2 seed and an odds on favorite to make it back to the dome, but lost in the second round to Welsh. The gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" isn't as big as some are trying to make it and not nearly as bad as when the second best team had literally 0 chance to beat the best. Kinda like Div IV is now? Pretty much, it's not very fair.
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 31, 2017 11:05:37 GMT -6
Kinda like Div IV is now? Pretty much, it's not very fair. But, while Southern Lab is unbelievable this year, they're not in the same stratosphere as those John Curtis and Evangel teams. Top ten national teams have no business playing AA football.
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Post by indy on Jul 31, 2017 11:14:50 GMT -6
Pretty much, it's not very fair. But, while Southern Lab is unbelievable this year, they're not in the same stratosphere as those John Curtis and Evangel teams. Top ten national teams have no business playing AA football. Them two being in 2A must have scared you for life?
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 31, 2017 11:19:49 GMT -6
Them two being in 2A must have scared you for life? Yes, watching a team loaded with D-1 prospects, at every position, playing against an average 2A is not a pretty sight.
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Post by LATigerFan on Jul 31, 2017 11:26:51 GMT -6
Should we put the Patriots and the Browns in different brackets? What about Alabama and Tulane? It's not ok for Curtis to whip up on Kinder, but its ok for Southern Lab to destroy Hanson Memorial I guess. Maybe after an NFL team wins to many super bowls in a short span we can kick them to a new bracket so teams like the Jets have a shot. If you have to many players on your roster make the pro bowl you should be bumped up to the select nfl division.
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 31, 2017 11:34:09 GMT -6
Should we put the Patriots and the Browns in different brackets? What about Alabama and Tulane? It's not ok for Curtis to whip up on Kinder, but its ok for Southern Lab to destroy Hanson Memorial I guess. Maybe after an NFL team wins to many super bowls in a short span we can kick them to a new bracket so teams like the Jets have a shot. If you have to many players on your roster make the pro bowl you should be bumped up to the select nfl division. I'm not saying that should happen at all, but I am saying that what was going on prior to the split was not right. As I've said here many times, I don't know exactly where the line should be drawn, but it's somewhere between a unilateral split and John Curtis and Evangel playing in double A. Evangel vs Kinder is just as rediculous as Evangel vs Notre Dame, Newman, or any other 2A private or public school.
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Post by LATigerFan on Jul 31, 2017 11:42:44 GMT -6
Should we put the Patriots and the Browns in different brackets? What about Alabama and Tulane? It's not ok for Curtis to whip up on Kinder, but its ok for Southern Lab to destroy Hanson Memorial I guess. Maybe after an NFL team wins to many super bowls in a short span we can kick them to a new bracket so teams like the Jets have a shot. If you have to many players on your roster make the pro bowl you should be bumped up to the select nfl division. I'm not saying that should happen at all, but I am saying that what was going on prior to the split was not right. As I've said here many times, I don't know exactly where the line should be drawn, but it's somewhere between a unilateral split and John Curtis and Evangel playing in double A. Evangel vs Kinder is just as rediculous as Evangel vs Notre Dame, Newman, or any other 2A private or public school. Evangel and Curtis weren't even playing in 2A they were both playing up
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 31, 2017 11:49:21 GMT -6
I'm not saying that should happen at all, but I am saying that what was going on prior to the split was not right. As I've said here many times, I don't know exactly where the line should be drawn, but it's somewhere between a unilateral split and John Curtis and Evangel playing in double A. Evangel vs Kinder is just as rediculous as Evangel vs Notre Dame, Newman, or any other 2A private or public school. Evangel and Curtis weren't even playing in 2A they were both playing up John Curtis was playing in AA from 2005-2012, the year prior to split. Evangel spent that same time between 1A and 2A. They were not allowed to play up.
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Post by indy on Jul 31, 2017 11:51:07 GMT -6
Should we put the Patriots and the Browns in different brackets? What about Alabama and Tulane? It's not ok for Curtis to whip up on Kinder, but its ok for Southern Lab to destroy Hanson Memorial I guess. Maybe after an NFL team wins to many super bowls in a short span we can kick them to a new bracket so teams like the Jets have a shot. If you have to many players on your roster make the pro bowl you should be bumped up to the select nfl division. I'm not saying that should happen at all, but I am saying that what was going on prior to the split was not right. As I've said here many times, I don't know exactly where the line should be drawn, but it's somewhere between a unilateral split and John Curtis and Evangel playing in double A. Evangel vs Kinder is just as rediculous as Evangel vs Notre Dame, Newman, or any other 2A private or public school. What you are saying is the same thing the majority of the principals are saying, I want what's best for ME. That's why we have 9 trophies and soon to be more.
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 31, 2017 11:59:46 GMT -6
I'm not saying that should happen at all, but I am saying that what was going on prior to the split was not right. As I've said here many times, I don't know exactly where the line should be drawn, but it's somewhere between a unilateral split and John Curtis and Evangel playing in double A. Evangel vs Kinder is just as rediculous as Evangel vs Notre Dame, Newman, or any other 2A private or public school. What you are saying is the same thing the majority of the principals are saying, I want what's best for ME. That's why we have 9 trophies and soon to be more. No, I want what's fair and equitable for the majority of the school's in the state. That is a reinstitution of the old rules, allowing football factories to play up in classification...as far up in class as they see fit. I don't give a damn about trophies, I do care about having a team loaded with DI talent, who wants to play up, being forced to play double A football because the bigger schools have the voting power. The same way you feel its unfair that public schools have the majority and can make the rules. I am not stupid, had there been no split, we would not have sniffed the dome 3 years in a row. Wake up, if both sides are all or nothing on the issue, you're going to be complaining for the rest of your life.
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Post by LATigerFan on Jul 31, 2017 12:11:51 GMT -6
Evangel and Curtis weren't even playing in 2A they were both playing up John Curtis was playing in AA from 2005-2012, the year prior to split. Evangel spent that same time between 1A and 2A. They were not allowed to play up.
You are right about that. They were not playing there due to trying to get guaranteed championships though, they wanted to play up both of those teams just want as much competition as they can get. That is why they are complaining about the split they aren't trying to get away from competition they are trying to get as much as they can. Had it not been them and it was Calvary or Catholic NI we would still be hearing complaining until the complainers team was the one hoisting the trophy. Now that it has happened there is no more complaining, now we call the ones who are calling for more competition complainers and cry babies.
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Post by LATigerFan on Jul 31, 2017 12:13:36 GMT -6
I don't care if its Curtis or East Beau if a team wants to play up above their classification they shouldn't be stopped from doing so.
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 31, 2017 12:21:39 GMT -6
John Curtis was playing in AA from 2005-2012, the year prior to split. Evangel spent that same time between 1A and 2A. They were not allowed to play up.
You are right about that. They were not playing there due to trying to get guaranteed championships though, they wanted to play up both of those teams just want as much competition as they can get. That is why they are complaining about the split they aren't trying to get away from competition they are trying to get as much as they can. Had it not been them and it was Calvary or Catholic NI we would still be hearing complaining until the complainers team was the one hoisting the trophy. Now that it has happened there is no more complaining, now we call the ones who are calling for more competition complainers and cry babies. I never blamed JC or Evangel for playing within the rules. I know they wanted to play up, but weren't allowed. I'm sure it got old for them as well. I've never called them a complainer or cry baby. But I think you are wrong about the point about Catholic High and Calvary, while they are both great programs they are beatable. Comparing those teams is beyond a reasonable stretch. They aren't even in the same galaxy. No offense to Catholic or Calvary, but John Curtis and Evangel were/are NATIONAL powers. They were forced to play in double and single A Louisiana high school football. That wasn't right and that was the catalyst for the split, in my opinion.
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 31, 2017 12:23:53 GMT -6
I don't care if its Curtis or East Beau if a team wants to play up above their classification they shouldn't be stopped from doing so. Absolutely, but everyone wants to focus on the "self serving" nature of the split, but where were they when the self serving (public & private) schools voted to disallow that? They should have had the foresight to see where this would end up.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Jul 31, 2017 13:21:09 GMT -6
What you are saying is the same thing the majority of the principals are saying, I want what's best for ME. That's why we have 9 trophies and soon to be more. No, I want what's fair and equitable for the majority of the school's in the state. That is a reinstitution of the old rules, allowing football factories to play up in classification...as far up in class as they see fit. I don't give a damn about trophies, I do care about having a team loaded with DI talent, who wants to play up, being forced to play double A football because the bigger schools have the voting power. The same way you feel its unfair that public schools have the majority and can make the rules. I am not stupid, had there been no split, we would not have sniffed the dome 3 years in a row. Wake up, if both sides are all or nothing on the issue, you're going to be complaining for the rest of your life. OK, so you are for the old way just allowing anyone to play up in classification? Why not go back to the old rules and add the success metric discussed on here before, that way it is mathematical reasoning to play up in case a school doesn't play up on it's own. I do think that it shouldn't be every sport that has to play up only the ones the schools or success metric deems necessary.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Jul 31, 2017 13:22:15 GMT -6
I don't care if its Curtis or East Beau if a team wants to play up above their classification they shouldn't be stopped from doing so. Absolutely, but everyone wants to focus on the "self serving" nature of the split, but where were they when the self serving (public & private) schools voted to disallow that? They should have had the foresight to see where this would end up. No argument here.
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 31, 2017 13:26:58 GMT -6
No, I want what's fair and equitable for the majority of the school's in the state. That is a reinstitution of the old rules, allowing football factories to play up in classification...as far up in class as they see fit. I don't give a damn about trophies, I do care about having a team loaded with DI talent, who wants to play up, being forced to play double A football because the bigger schools have the voting power. The same way you feel its unfair that public schools have the majority and can make the rules. I am not stupid, had there been no split, we would not have sniffed the dome 3 years in a row. Wake up, if both sides are all or nothing on the issue, you're going to be complaining for the rest of your life. OK, so you are for the old way just allowing anyone to play up in classification? Why not go back to the old rules and add the success metric discussed on here before, that way it is mathematical reasoning to play up in case a school doesn't play up on it's own. I do think that it shouldn't be every sport that has to play up only the ones the schools or success metric deems necessary. I would take that over what we have now any day of the week...and twice on Sundays.
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Post by iknownuthing on Jul 31, 2017 13:48:54 GMT -6
It has never, ever been about leveling the playing field. It has been about punishing the private schools, both financial and reputation. JC and e were too successful, particularly e, so 5A and 4A public school principals conspired to force play in class. The brain trust at that time as tiny as it was, calculated that movement of those 2 down to 1A and 2A would eliminate the allure of playing for JC and e. Factually, Calvary Baptist did more to pull talent from e than anything the principals did. The hope of these mental midgets was that both JC and e would lose national standing and prominence. It did not work. Many leads the revolt for 2Aand 1A, and instead of a fair and equitable solution for the LHSAA as a whole, in a third world dictatorial vote, the LHSAA moves to discriminate against a whole class of schools in the association. If any of these principals had a back bone, or for that matter the Executive Board, they would have moved to have both schools (JC and e) moved out of the LHSAA. Instead, they created mistrust and fermented a caustic atmosphere that has placed the LHSAA into a financial crisis and servery damaged it's reputation. Perversely, the exact thing it tried to do to JC, e and then lately to all of the states Private, Lab, Charter and certain Magnet schools has been thrust upon the LHSAA and its public school members.
So what is the solution. Metro/Rural? Maybe, depends on how you define Metro and Rural. Either way, anything short of complete reversal of the split will leave the LHSAA scared for the remainder of its useless life. That is if it can overcome its financial woes.
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Post by kinder1981 on Jul 31, 2017 13:54:20 GMT -6
It has never, ever been about leveling the playing field. It has been about punishing the private schools, both financial and reputation. JC and e were too successful, particularly e, so 5A and 4A public school principals conspired to force play in class. The brain trust at that time as tiny as it was, calculated that movement of those 2 down to 1A and 2A would eliminate the allure of playing for JC and e. Factually, Calvary Baptist did more to pull talent from e than anything the principals did. The hope of these mental midgets was that both JC and e would lose national standing and prominence. It did not work. Many leads the revolt for 2Aand 1A, and instead of a fair and equitable solution for the LHSAA as a whole, in a third world dictatorial vote, the LHSAA moves to discriminate against a whole class of schools in the association. If any of these principals had a back bone, or for that matter the Executive Board, they would have moved to have both schools (JC and e) moved out of the LHSAA. Instead, they created mistrust and fermented a caustic atmosphere that has placed the LHSAA into a financial crisis and servery damaged it's reputation. Perversely, the exact thing it tried to do to JC, e and then lately to all of the states Private, Lab, Charter and certain Magnet schools has been thrust upon the LHSAA and its public school members. So what is the solution. Metro/Rural? Maybe, depends on how you define Metro and Rural. Either way, anything short of complete reversal of the split will leave the LHSAA scared for the remainder of its useless life. That is if it can overcome its financial woes. Is there any record of the vote that disallowed schools to play up in classification?
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Post by indy on Jul 31, 2017 13:59:21 GMT -6
It has never, ever been about leveling the playing field. It has been about punishing the private schools, both financial and reputation. JC and e were too successful, particularly e, so 5A and 4A public school principals conspired to force play in class. The brain trust at that time as tiny as it was, calculated that movement of those 2 down to 1A and 2A would eliminate the allure of playing for JC and e. Factually, Calvary Baptist did more to pull talent from e than anything the principals did. The hope of these mental midgets was that both JC and e would lose national standing and prominence. It did not work. Many leads the revolt for 2Aand 1A, and instead of a fair and equitable solution for the LHSAA as a whole, in a third world dictatorial vote, the LHSAA moves to discriminate against a whole class of schools in the association. If any of these principals had a back bone, or for that matter the Executive Board, they would have moved to have both schools (JC and e) moved out of the LHSAA. Instead, they created mistrust and fermented a caustic atmosphere that has placed the LHSAA into a financial crisis and servery damaged it's reputation. Perversely, the exact thing it tried to do to JC, e and then lately to all of the states Private, Lab, Charter and certain Magnet schools has been thrust upon the LHSAA and its public school members. So what is the solution. Metro/Rural? Maybe, depends on how you define Metro and Rural. Either way, anything short of complete reversal of the split will leave the LHSAA scared for the remainder of its useless life. That is if it can overcome its financial woes. Is there any record of the vote that disallowed schools to play up in classification? Stands to reason 3-4-5A voted for it and 1-2A voted no
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Post by iknownuthing on Jul 31, 2017 14:00:03 GMT -6
It has never, ever been about leveling the playing field. It has been about punishing the private schools, both financial and reputation. JC and e were too successful, particularly e, so 5A and 4A public school principals conspired to force play in class. The brain trust at that time as tiny as it was, calculated that movement of those 2 down to 1A and 2A would eliminate the allure of playing for JC and e. Factually, Calvary Baptist did more to pull talent from e than anything the principals did. The hope of these mental midgets was that both JC and e would lose national standing and prominence. It did not work. Many leads the revolt for 2Aand 1A, and instead of a fair and equitable solution for the LHSAA as a whole, in a third world dictatorial vote, the LHSAA moves to discriminate against a whole class of schools in the association. If any of these principals had a back bone, or for that matter the Executive Board, they would have moved to have both schools (JC and e) moved out of the LHSAA. Instead, they created mistrust and fermented a caustic atmosphere that has placed the LHSAA into a financial crisis and servery damaged it's reputation. Perversely, the exact thing it tried to do to JC, e and then lately to all of the states Private, Lab, Charter and certain Magnet schools has been thrust upon the LHSAA and its public school members. So what is the solution. Metro/Rural? Maybe, depends on how you define Metro and Rural. Either way, anything short of complete reversal of the split will leave the LHSAA scared for the remainder of its useless life. That is if it can overcome its financial woes. Is there any record of the vote that disallowed schools to play up in classification? Sure, but now that the LHSAA is a "Private" institution they do not have to share it with you.
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Post by CrusadingLions on Jul 31, 2017 14:00:49 GMT -6
Either way, anything short of complete reversal of the split will leave the LHSAA scared for the remainder of its useless life. That is if it can overcome its financial woes. Out of curiosity, how bad is the financial situation with the LHSAA right now?
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Post by indy on Jul 31, 2017 14:06:02 GMT -6
Either way, anything short of complete reversal of the split will leave the LHSAA scared for the remainder of its useless life. That is if it can overcome its financial woes. Out of curiosity, how bad is the financial situation with the LHSAA right now? I think better thanks to Bonine. If Henderson stayed two more years we would have been long ago bankrupted. Maybe that would have been better, similar to the care situation, if they can't agree on a fix, let it go broke
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Post by iknownuthing on Jul 31, 2017 14:06:46 GMT -6
Either way, anything short of complete reversal of the split will leave the LHSAA scared for the remainder of its useless life. That is if it can overcome its financial woes. Out of curiosity, how bad is the financial situation with the LHSAA right now? That is a great question. Has the LHSAA released any financials lately? They did last summer and it was so bad they had to have cutbacks. So where are the financials all you public school principals? Share them with us.
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Post by iknownuthing on Aug 1, 2017 15:08:52 GMT -6
No, I want what's fair and equitable for the majority of the school's in the state. That is a reinstitution of the old rules, allowing football factories to play up in classification...as far up in class as they see fit. I don't give a damn about trophies, I do care about having a team loaded with DI talent, who wants to play up, being forced to play double A football because the bigger schools have the voting power. The same way you feel its unfair that public schools have the majority and can make the rules. I am not stupid, had there been no split, we would not have sniffed the dome 3 years in a row. Wake up, if both sides are all or nothing on the issue, you're going to be complaining for the rest of your life. OK, so you are for the old way just allowing anyone to play up in classification? Why not go back to the old rules and add the success metric discussed on here before, that way it is mathematical reasoning to play up in case a school doesn't play up on it's own. I do think that it shouldn't be every sport that has to play up only the ones the schools or success metric deems necessary. Since 2013, in 4A there has been two schools that have been in every State final in football except one. And in that one, one of those two teams was in the final. Why have those two teams not played up? Because they don't have to. If the LHSAA was looking to level the playing field and move toward a real balance, both of these schools would have been moved up to 5A. But it will not happen for the next two years. So who will be in the finals of 4A for the next few years? Neville and Karr, Neville and Karr, Neville and Karr until they reach the status of JC and e, JC and e.
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Post by iknownuthing on Aug 1, 2017 15:34:31 GMT -6
4A finals and champions since 2010
2010 finals Karr vs Franklinton Winner Franklinton 2011 finals Neville vs Karr Winner Neville 2012 finals Neville vs Karr Winner Karr 2013 Finals Karr vs E. Jeff Winner E. Jeff 2014 finals Easton vs Neville winner Neville 2015 finals Neville v Karr winner Neville 2016 finals Neville vs Karr winner Karr
The last time one of these two teams has not been in the 4A state championship was 2008.
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Post by indy on Aug 1, 2017 16:48:35 GMT -6
4A finals and champions since 2010 2010 finals Karr vs Franklinton Winner Franklinton 2011 finals Neville vs Karr Winner Neville 2012 finals Neville vs Karr Winner Karr 2013 Finals Karr vs E. Jeff Winner E. Jeff 2014 finals Easton vs Neville winner Neville 2015 finals Neville v Karr winner Neville 2016 finals Neville vs Karr winner Karr The last time one of these two teams has not been in the 4A state championship was 2008. It's why the rural public 4A schools are crying for Rural/Metro
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Post by eag on Aug 3, 2017 11:10:12 GMT -6
4A finals and champions since 2010 2010 finals Karr vs Franklinton Winner Franklinton 2011 finals Neville vs Karr Winner Neville 2012 finals Neville vs Karr Winner Karr 2013 Finals Karr vs E. Jeff Winner E. Jeff 2014 finals Easton vs Neville winner Neville 2015 finals Neville v Karr winner Neville 2016 finals Neville vs Karr winner Karr The last time one of these two teams has not been in the 4A state championship was 2008. This is why a plan like Indiana plan is so perfect. Both of those should be in 5A. It also begs the question as to where is the outcry from people like Principals Booker/Griffin, etc. Sure, the classification they were in was dominated by a couple of private schools. But the issue should be the domination part, not the private part.
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