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Post by btown on Sept 26, 2018 11:29:42 GMT -6
I bet we could come up with a better rule book than the LHSAA has when it comes to eligibility and classification of school. Put your rule down, then we can figure away to vote.
1. All schools must have established school zone. 2. Determine size of school zone compared to class of school. Each class will have a set size of zone for each class. For example 1A school zone cannot extend 20 miles out for school. The miles is just a example. If mileage is further they play in the class that the mileage relates to. 3. Any out of zone athletes for any reason, no exceptions, school plays up in class.
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Post by indy on Sept 26, 2018 11:34:37 GMT -6
4. Catholic school zones are their established feeder schools.
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Post by indy on Sept 26, 2018 11:54:20 GMT -6
I bet we could come up with a better rule book than the LHSAA has when it comes to eligibility and classification of school. Put your rule down, then we can figure away to vote. 1. All schools must have established school zone. 2. Determine size of school zone compared to class of school. Each class will have a set size of zone for each class. For example 1A school zone cannot extend 20 miles out for school. The miles is just a example. If mileage is further they play in the class that the mileage relates to. 3. Any out of zone athletes for any reason, no exceptions, school plays up in class. The problem with this is no one is following zones anymore. Acadia and Lafayette Parish is so out of wack I can’t imagine them being forced back to zones. The Nola area is totally impossible. What are you gonna do about the Many rule? Will those kids be forced to move to play football, God forbid, I can hear Norma crying already. But you are on a good track.
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Post by btown on Sept 26, 2018 11:57:47 GMT -6
That is what happens no exceptions. If your school zone does not have football move.
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Post by btown on Sept 26, 2018 14:20:24 GMT -6
I lived in Basile my wife teached in Elton so my Kids went to school with her. At 5 they started playing softball and became good at. So I sold my house and moved to Elton, rented at first. Tried to get softball and baseball started in Elton, got no support. So I bought land in Allen parish (Kinder zone), bought a and double wide and transfer my kids to Kinder, the correct way.
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Post by swlaprepfan on Sept 26, 2018 15:53:59 GMT -6
4. Catholic school zones are their established feeder schools. What about non-religious affiliated schools, how would they establish zones in this scenario? Also, do you see any scenario where Catholic Schools would agree on zones? If the zones are based on where you chose to attend school, as opposed to where you live, wouldn't that bring this whole debate back to square one?
My next door neighbor sent his kids to Hamilton Christian Academy through Junior High, then St. Louis for high school. In your scenario they would be ineligible to play at St. Louis. Lots of people wait until high school to enroll their kids in private school, if this rule took effect, they would not be able to play sports at said private school.
I have even read where people on this board have used feeder schools as a zone, but nowhere is that the case.
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Post by indy on Sept 26, 2018 17:00:06 GMT -6
4. Catholic school zones are their established feeder schools. What about non-religious affiliated schools, how would they establish zones in this scenario? Also, do you see any scenario where Catholic Schools would agree on zones? If the zones are based on where you chose to attend school, as opposed to where you live, wouldn't that bring this whole debate back to square one?
My next door neighbor sent his kids to Hamilton Christian Academy through Junior High, then St. Louis for high school. In your scenario they would be ineligible to play at St. Louis. Lots of people wait until high school to enroll their kids in private school, if this rule took effect, they would not be able to play sports at said private school.
I have even read where people on this board have used feeder schools as a zone, but nowhere is that the case.
I’m not sure about the Christian or non Christian private schools. ND is a consolidated school. I would like to be treated fairly, similar to consolidated public schools that encompass neighboring towns.
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Post by swlaprepfan on Sept 26, 2018 17:14:34 GMT -6
What about non-religious affiliated schools, how would they establish zones in this scenario? Also, do you see any scenario where Catholic Schools would agree on zones? If the zones are based on where you chose to attend school, as opposed to where you live, wouldn't that bring this whole debate back to square one?
My next door neighbor sent his kids to Hamilton Christian Academy through Junior High, then St. Louis for high school. In your scenario they would be ineligible to play at St. Louis. Lots of people wait until high school to enroll their kids in private school, if this rule took effect, they would not be able to play sports at said private school.
I have even read where people on this board have used feeder schools as a zone, but nowhere is that the case.
I’m not sure about the Christian or non Christian private schools. ND is a consolidated school. I would like to be treated fairly, similar to consolidated public schools that encompass neighboring towns. But even those consolidated public schools have defined attendance zones that can only be circumvented in instances where both school boards agree. Some private schools draw from 100 mile radius with over a million people in that pool and no restrictions on who can attend. A lot of private schools claim that they have attendance zones in the form of feeder schools, but when someone transfers before their freshman year, there is no penalty. If you want to be treated equal, playing under the same exact set of rules would be a good start.
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Post by indy on Sept 26, 2018 17:20:54 GMT -6
I’m not sure about the Christian or non Christian private schools. ND is a consolidated school. I would like to be treated fairly, similar to consolidated public schools that encompass neighboring towns. But even those consolidated public schools have defined attendance zones that can only be circumvented in instances where both school boards agree. Some private schools draw from 100 mile radius with over a million people in that pool and no restrictions on who can attend. A lot of private schools claim that they have attendance zones in the form of feeder schools, but when someone transfers before their freshman year, there is no penalty. If you want to be treated equal, playing under the same exact set of rules would be a good start. It can be worked out fairly. There is no one fit answer. But in our case make the feeder schools the zone and make them start in the 6th or 7th grade to be eligible.
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Post by swlaprepfan on Sept 26, 2018 17:32:44 GMT -6
But even those consolidated public schools have defined attendance zones that can only be circumvented in instances where both school boards agree. Some private schools draw from 100 mile radius with over a million people in that pool and no restrictions on who can attend. A lot of private schools claim that they have attendance zones in the form of feeder schools, but when someone transfers before their freshman year, there is no penalty. If you want to be treated equal, playing under the same exact set of rules would be a good start. It can be worked out fairly. There is no one fit answer. But in our case make the feeder schools the zone and make them start in the 6th or 7th grade to be eligible. Yea, but that's really a double edge sword for the school and athletes. On one hand, you have a bit of a safeguard against athletic transfers, on the other you are punishing athletes whose parents move or transfer for legitimate reasons. I moved my son 3 times in six years. All moves were strictly economic, but in your scenario he would have never been eligible for sports. I honestly don't know what I would have done if I had to decide between paying the bills and keeping my son eligible for sports.
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Post by btown on Sept 26, 2018 20:05:56 GMT -6
We have only 4 rules and already problems. That is what I am talking. When start making exceptions you can never stop. Rule School zone will be set by distance from high school. In the big cities population numbers in the zone. Each class will have mileage number and populatuon.
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Post by TheFireman89 on Sept 26, 2018 23:42:50 GMT -6
5. The punishment imposed on an athlete cannot be worse than the punishment imposed on a school or coach. Example: athlete being suspended for one year and school fined $200.
6. An athlete cannot be punished because of the actions of a coach, parent, or administrator unless the actions of the athlete were directly involved in the reasoning for the ruling.
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Post by TheFireman89 on Sept 27, 2018 17:13:38 GMT -6
I like the idea of doing the classes like the promotion system in European soccer leagues. Basically, the 1 or 2 or 4 best teams in each league get promoted to the next level of competition and the 1 or 2 or 4 worst teams get demoted to one level below. There are several different ways you could set this up. You could do it every season or have it coincide with re-districting and do it every two years. The current class setup would be the template and then start moving the teams up and down. Would get teams that aren't competitive in their class (i.e. Mamou in 3A or Grace King in 5A) on a level where they could possibly become competitive and would get teams that dominate their class (i.e. Karr in 4A and Kentwood in 1A) on a higher level of competition. There are many different ways you could do this. Eliminate the split and state champ in each class gets promoted and worst record in the class gets demoted or all semifinalists get promoted or the two teams that make it to the dome get promoted. One problem it could create would be 5A being nothing but powerhouses and 1A being nothing but cupcakes but each class would be competitive within the class. Teams that are consistently among the top teams in their class would get a chance to play a higher level of competition. Teams that are one-year-wonders (2017 Richwood) would move up for one or two years and end up back in their previous class. Playoffs would be competitive in every class because using this system advantages would be evened out.
Example Class 5A Demoted to 4A: Southwood, Lafayette, Broadmoor, Grace King
Class 4A Promoted to 5A: Edna Karr, Neville, Warren Easton, St. Thomas More Demoted to 3A: West Ouachita, Grant, Tara, Ben Franklin
Class 3A Promoted to 4A: University Lab, De La Salle, West Feliciana, Richwood Demoted to 2A: Madison Parish, Mamou, Mentorship Academy, Cohen
Class 2A Promoted to 3A: Notre Dame, Catholic-NI, Welsh, St. Helena Demoted to 1A: Lakeview, Delcambre, Pickering, Fisher
Class 1A Promoted to 2A: Kentwood, West St. John, Lafayette Christian, Ascension Catholic
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Post by indy on Sept 27, 2018 17:17:56 GMT -6
I like the idea of doing the classes like the promotion system in European soccer leagues. Basically, the 1 or 2 or 4 best teams in each league get promoted to the next level of competition and the 1 or 2 or 4 worst teams get demoted to one level below. There are several different ways you could set this up. You could do it every season or have it coincide with re-districting and do it every two years. The current class setup would be the template and then start moving the teams up and down. Would get teams that aren't competitive in their class (i.e. Mamou in 3A or Grace King in 5A) on a level where they could possibly become competitive and would get teams that dominate their class (i.e. Karr in 4A and Kentwood in 1A) on a higher level of competition. There are many different ways you could do this. Eliminate the split and state champ in each class gets promoted and worst record in the class gets demoted or all semifinalists get promoted or the two teams that make it to the dome get promoted. One problem it could create would be 5A being nothing but powerhouses and 1A being nothing but cupcakes but each class would be competitive within the class. Teams that are consistently among the top teams in their class would get a chance to play a higher level of competition. Teams that are one-year-wonders (2017 Richwood) would move up for one or two years and end up back in their previous class. Playoffs would be competitive in every class because using this system advantages would be evened out. Example Class 5A Demoted to 4A: Southwood, Lafayette, Broadmoor, Grace King Class 4A Promoted to 5A: Edna Karr, Neville, Warren Easton, West Monroe Demoted to 3A: West Ouachita, Grant, Tara, Ben Franklin Class 3A Promoted to 4A: University Lab, De La Salle, West Feliciana, Richwood Demoted to 2A: Madison Parish, Mamou, Mentorship Academy, Cohen Class 2A Promoted to 3A: Notre Dame, Catholic-NI, Welsh, St. Helena Demoted to 1A: Lakeview, Delcambre, Pickering, Fisher Class 1A Promoted to 2A: Kentwood, West St. John, Lafayette Christian, Ascension Catholic Where you gonna demote Delcambre, Jeanerette, and Loreaville? Mississippi?
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Post by cjr3888 on Sept 27, 2018 19:22:00 GMT -6
I like the idea of doing the classes like the promotion system in European soccer leagues. Basically, the 1 or 2 or 4 best teams in each league get promoted to the next level of competition and the 1 or 2 or 4 worst teams get demoted to one level below. There are several different ways you could set this up. You could do it every season or have it coincide with re-districting and do it every two years. The current class setup would be the template and then start moving the teams up and down. Would get teams that aren't competitive in their class (i.e. Mamou in 3A or Grace King in 5A) on a level where they could possibly become competitive and would get teams that dominate their class (i.e. Karr in 4A and Kentwood in 1A) on a higher level of competition. There are many different ways you could do this. Eliminate the split and state champ in each class gets promoted and worst record in the class gets demoted or all semifinalists get promoted or the two teams that make it to the dome get promoted. One problem it could create would be 5A being nothing but powerhouses and 1A being nothing but cupcakes but each class would be competitive within the class. Teams that are consistently among the top teams in their class would get a chance to play a higher level of competition. Teams that are one-year-wonders (2017 Richwood) would move up for one or two years and end up back in their previous class. Playoffs would be competitive in every class because using this system advantages would be evened out. Example Class 5A Demoted to 4A: Southwood, Lafayette, Broadmoor, Grace King Class 4A Promoted to 5A: Edna Karr, Neville, Warren Easton, West Monroe Demoted to 3A: West Ouachita, Grant, Tara, Ben Franklin Class 3A Promoted to 4A: University Lab, De La Salle, West Feliciana, Richwood Demoted to 2A: Madison Parish, Mamou, Mentorship Academy, Cohen Class 2A Promoted to 3A: Notre Dame, Catholic-NI, Welsh, St. Helena Demoted to 1A: Lakeview, Delcambre, Pickering, Fisher Class 1A Promoted to 2A: Kentwood, West St. John, Lafayette Christian, Ascension Catholic Where you gonna demote Delcambre, Jeanerette, and Loreaville? Mississippi? Keep our name out of your mouth. And to think I promoted you to Buzz instead of Woody! I don’t like the promotion/regulation theory. This isn’t professional sports. Schools should be able to play up as they wish. Most schools that are on that level will do so voluntarily. We argue all day and night but none of this would be a problem if the LHSAA would enforce their rules on a consistent basis.
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Post by indy on Sept 27, 2018 19:28:40 GMT -6
Where you gonna demote Delcambre, Jeanerette, and Loreaville? Mississippi? Keep our name out of your mouth. And to think I promoted you to Buzz instead of Woody! I don’t like the promotion/regulation theory. This isn’t professional sports. Schools should be able to play up as they wish. Most schools that are on that level will do so voluntarily. We argue all day and night but none of this would be a problem if the LHSAA would enforce their rules on a consistent basis. Ok, we’ll keep Loreaville and send west St Mary to Mississippi
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Post by tigerfan87 on Sept 28, 2018 10:10:22 GMT -6
I bet we could come up with a better rule book than the LHSAA has when it comes to eligibility and classification of school. Put your rule down, then we can figure away to vote. 1. All schools must have established school zone. 2. Determine size of school zone compared to class of school. Each class will have a set size of zone for each class. For example 1A school zone cannot extend 20 miles out for school. The miles is just a example. If mileage is further they play in the class that the mileage relates to. 3. Any out of zone athletes for any reason, no exceptions, school plays up in class. I don't understand how the mileage rule could work. It just won't translate to urban areas compared with rural areas. You are saying that how wide a zone is will determine classification correct? So if school A has a zone that extends a 30 mile radius but that only creates a school of 200 they would be in the same class as school B that picks up 1500 kids in the same radius?
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Post by btown on Sept 28, 2018 16:05:38 GMT -6
I bet we could come up with a better rule book than the LHSAA has when it comes to eligibility and classification of school. Put your rule down, then we can figure away to vote. 1. All schools must have established school zone. 2. Determine size of school zone compared to class of school. Each class will have a set size of zone for each class. For example 1A school zone cannot extend 20 miles out for school. The miles is just a example. If mileage is further they play in the class that the mileage relates to. 3. Any out of zone athletes for any reason, no exceptions, school plays up in class. I don't understand how the mileage rule could work. It just won't translate to urban areas compared with rural areas. You are saying that how wide a zone is will determine classification correct? So if school A has a zone that extends a 30 mile radius but that only creates a school of 200 they would be in the same class as school B that picks up 1500 kids in the same radius? I came back and added this. School zone will be set by distance from high school. In the big cities population numbers in the zone. Each class will have mileage number and populatuon(census). You would have to extend zone until you reach a set census number. So it would be mileage and census numbers.
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Post by tigerfan87 on Sept 28, 2018 16:34:47 GMT -6
I don't understand how the mileage rule could work. It just won't translate to urban areas compared with rural areas. You are saying that how wide a zone is will determine classification correct? So if school A has a zone that extends a 30 mile radius but that only creates a school of 200 they would be in the same class as school B that picks up 1500 kids in the same radius? I came back and added this. School zone will be set by distance from high school. In the big cities population numbers in the zone. Each class will have mileage number and populatuon(census). You would have to extend zone until you reach a set census number. So it would be mileage and census numbers. Ok well that makes sense
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Post by retired on Sept 28, 2018 18:43:51 GMT -6
4. Catholic school zones are their established feeder schools. I thought that was already the case? As well as the public school zone they share.
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Post by indy on Sept 28, 2018 19:26:19 GMT -6
4. Catholic school zones are their established feeder schools. I thought that was already the case? As well as the public school zone they share. I think it’s back to us sharing a zone with Crowley ( we have to follow but they don’t) crazy. But the kids out of zone from Catholic feeders can play freshman sports only. Which is fine
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Post by retired on Sept 28, 2018 19:37:02 GMT -6
I thought that was already the case? As well as the public school zone they share. I think it’s back to us sharing a zone with Crowley ( we have to follow but they don’t) crazy. But the kids out of zone from Catholic feeders can play freshman sports only. Which is fine I thought the legislature had meddled years ago to include the feeder school provisions.
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Post by indy on Sept 29, 2018 5:09:35 GMT -6
I think it’s back to us sharing a zone with Crowley ( we have to follow but they don’t) crazy. But the kids out of zone from Catholic feeders can play freshman sports only. Which is fine I thought the legislature had meddled years ago to include the feeder school provisions. The feeder schools freshman situation I just mentioned is what the legislature “dabbled” to get. Prior to that ND made our freshman class a Jr High so freshman could only play freshman sports but the LHSAA countered with making ND use Crowley High’s freshman numbers to add to our other three classes. Their freshman class was double of ours. This is why it looked like we had a spike in enrollment and it pushed us up in 3A.
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Post by retired on Sept 29, 2018 5:41:25 GMT -6
I thought the legislature had meddled years ago to include the feeder school provisions. The feeder schools freshman situation I just mentioned is what the legislature “dabbled” to get. Prior to that ND made our freshman class a Jr High so freshman could only play freshman sports but the LHSAA countered with making ND use Crowley High’s freshman numbers to add to our other three classes. Their freshman class was double of ours. This is why it looked like we had a spike in enrollment and it pushed us up in 3A. Yes. I was just clarifying that it was currently the rule, and not a new rule. I initially thought you were suggesting that as something new for the new rule book thread as opposed to just making sure it is included. I agree with that rule because it usually falls inline with what I believe is the most fundamental principle of eligibility : if there were no high school sports, would the student still go to the school. If a student has attended a parochial school from early elementary school, he/she would most likely be attending a private high school. Can you explain your second point though regarding the use of Crowley High's freshman numbers? I know many small private schools whose 8th/9th grades were classifed officially as a "jr high school" such that their freshman would be eligible to play freshman ball, but have never heard of the actions you mentioned. For example, Pope John Paul shares a district with Northshore High School, but has never had a "spike in numbers" despite the fact that Northshore's enrollment (particularly freshman) is around 1,000 students more than Crowley.
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Post by indy on Sept 29, 2018 5:48:59 GMT -6
The feeder schools freshman situation I just mentioned is what the legislature “dabbled” to get. Prior to that ND made our freshman class a Jr High so freshman could only play freshman sports but the LHSAA countered with making ND use Crowley High’s freshman numbers to add to our other three classes. Their freshman class was double of ours. This is why it looked like we had a spike in enrollment and it pushed us up in 3A. Yes. I was just clarifying that it was currently the rule, and not a new rule. I initially thought you were suggesting that as something new for the new rule book thread as opposed to just making sure it is included. I agree with that rule because it usually falls inline with what I believe is the most fundamental principle of eligibility : if there were no high school sports, would the student still go to the school. If a student has attended a parochial school from early elementary school, he/she would most likely be attending a private high school. Can you explain your second point though regarding the use of Crowley High's freshman numbers? I know many small private schools whose 8th/9th grades were classifed officially as a "jr high school" such that their freshman would be eligible to play freshman ball, but have never heard of the actions you mentioned. For example, Pope John Paul shares a district with Northshore High School, but has never had a "spike in numbers" despite the fact that Northshore's enrollment (particularly freshman) is around 1,000 students more than Crowley. It was Prior to the legislative rule, after the rule the LHSAA counted our own freshman. Same thing to any other school that was doing it.
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Post by retired on Sept 29, 2018 5:59:54 GMT -6
Yes. I was just clarifying that it was currently the rule, and not a new rule. I initially thought you were suggesting that as something new for the new rule book thread as opposed to just making sure it is included. I agree with that rule because it usually falls inline with what I believe is the most fundamental principle of eligibility : if there were no high school sports, would the student still go to the school. If a student has attended a parochial school from early elementary school, he/she would most likely be attending a private high school. Can you explain your second point though regarding the use of Crowley High's freshman numbers? I know many small private schools whose 8th/9th grades were classifed officially as a "jr high school" such that their freshman would be eligible to play freshman ball, but have never heard of the actions you mentioned. For example, Pope John Paul shares a district with Northshore High School, but has never had a "spike in numbers" despite the fact that Northshore's enrollment (particularly freshman) is around 1,000 students more than Crowley. It was Prior to the legislative rule, after the rule the LHSAA counted our own freshman. Same thing to any other school that was doing it. Again, not familiar with such practices, and I am going back to the 1980s regarding Pope John Paul being a class 2A school, and Northshore being a Top Class School with a freshman enrollment bigger than the entire enrollment at John Paul.
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Post by indy on Sept 29, 2018 6:19:44 GMT -6
It was Prior to the legislative rule, after the rule the LHSAA counted our own freshman. Same thing to any other school that was doing it. Again, not familiar with such practices, and I am going back to the 1980s regarding Pope John Paul being a class 2A school, and Northshore being a Top Class School with a freshman enrollment bigger than the entire enrollment at John Paul. I am not familiar with their situation. All I know is we had to use Crowley High’s freshman numbers. There was a formula applied when Crowley was 4A and we were 2A but eventually we were both 3A so it was the strait up numbers. For about 10 years we actually had 3A enrollment so it wasn’t a big deal.
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Post by retired on Sept 29, 2018 7:02:08 GMT -6
Again, not familiar with such practices, and I am going back to the 1980s regarding Pope John Paul being a class 2A school, and Northshore being a Top Class School with a freshman enrollment bigger than the entire enrollment at John Paul. I am not familiar with their situation. All I know is we had to use Crowley High’s freshman numbers. There was a formula applied when Crowley was 4A and we were 2A but eventually we were both 3A so it was the strait up numbers. For about 10 years we actually had 3A enrollment so it wasn’t a big deal. Would be interested to hear exactly the time frame here. Pope John Paul initially started an 8th grade around 88/89 and as I stated at that time, Northshore High school's freshman enrollment would have been near of not exceeding the entire enrollment of John Paul (including those 8th graders) yet pope john paul was still a 2A school. Had you taken the freshman numbers from Northshore, and added to John Paul's soph, Jr. senior classes, you would have doubled the enrollment.
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Post by indy on Sept 29, 2018 7:17:35 GMT -6
I am not familiar with their situation. All I know is we had to use Crowley High’s freshman numbers. There was a formula applied when Crowley was 4A and we were 2A but eventually we were both 3A so it was the strait up numbers. For about 10 years we actually had 3A enrollment so it wasn’t a big deal. Would be interested to hear exactly the time frame here. Pope John Paul initially started an 8th grade around 88/89 and as I stated at that time, Northshore High school's freshman enrollment would have been near of not exceeding the entire enrollment of John Paul (including those 8th graders) yet pope john paul was still a 2A school. Had you taken the freshman numbers from Northshore, and added to John Paul's soph, Jr. senior classes, you would have doubled the enrollment. Mid to late 90’s is when we went to a freshman Jr High till the legislative bill took effect. We didn’t have an actual physical separate campus. Maybe that’s the difference. And this was in the Tommy Henry era so maybe it was just his will.
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Post by retired on Sept 29, 2018 10:17:41 GMT -6
Would be interested to hear exactly the time frame here. Pope John Paul initially started an 8th grade around 88/89 and as I stated at that time, Northshore High school's freshman enrollment would have been near of not exceeding the entire enrollment of John Paul (including those 8th graders) yet pope john paul was still a 2A school. Had you taken the freshman numbers from Northshore, and added to John Paul's soph, Jr. senior classes, you would have doubled the enrollment. Mid to late 90’s is when we went to a freshman Jr High till the legislative bill took effect. We didn’t have an actual physical separate campus. Maybe that’s the difference. And this was in the Tommy Henry era so maybe it was just his will. Could be. Not sure if John Paul still had an 8th grade at that time so it could have been a change in the rule structure. It didn't have a separate campus either when they did it late 80s early 90s. It was the exact same scenario as you are describing with ND. To allow freshman who lived outside of their district to play freshman ball, they had to be "jr high" students so On paper their were two separate entities. In practice it was one school.
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