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Post by chalmetteowl on May 18, 2019 13:21:21 GMT -6
This also leads into a discussion of whether state championship teams are better compared to the competition than they used to be. Back in the old days there was a lot more parity. You could win a title with a special group of seniors that wasn't necessarily a great program.
Now, since the Champions have to be better, they don't turn over like they used to. Programs dominate as opposed to the teams making one-off playoff runs
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Post by bigrob on May 18, 2019 18:29:12 GMT -6
So when it benefits your school, you have no problem with those s? When the transfer happened, why weren't you screaming at the decision those "" principals made to allow an All-American to play for your school? I never said I was for it. The vast majority of transfers are from private to public or public to public. Northside a few years ago was a large 4A school, now a small 3A school. Obviously Tyler wasn’t the only one that fled the situation. ND made the finals 3 out of 4 years while in D3. Tyler played the one year we didn’t make it. And Tyler was zoned for Lafayette High but went to Northside to play for Trev Faulk. I haven't jumped into this discussion because frankly I'm not interested in getting involved in it, but from what I heard and if I remember everything correctly...didn't Tyler's family convince him to sit his senior year of high school out? That's at least what I'd heard. Source: his old coaches Not that it affects this discussion or anything, but if this info is true or especially if it's false, you'd probably know best out of anyone on this site, Indy.
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Post by indy on May 18, 2019 19:19:20 GMT -6
I never said I was for it. The vast majority of transfers are from private to public or public to public. Northside a few years ago was a large 4A school, now a small 3A school. Obviously Tyler wasn’t the only one that fled the situation. ND made the finals 3 out of 4 years while in D3. Tyler played the one year we didn’t make it. And Tyler was zoned for Lafayette High but went to Northside to play for Trev Faulk. I haven't jumped into this discussion because frankly I'm not interested in getting involved in it, but from what I heard and if I remember everything correctly...didn't Tyler's family convince him to sit his senior year of high school out? That's at least what I'd heard. Source: his old coaches Not that it affects this discussion or anything, but if this info is true or especially if it's false, you'd probably know best out of anyone on this site, Indy. Tylers family was sending him the school in Florida ( can’t recall the name IMG?) Less Miles convinced them to send Tyler to ND to keep him away from Saban. His grades were horrible and if he had stayed at Northside without the tutoring and mentoring he received at ND he would have been ineligible. ND was good for Tyler, Tyler was not good for ND. With that said I’m glad he came and I got to know him and his family.
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Post by movethechains on May 19, 2019 17:44:43 GMT -6
Well I'll give my humble opinion. First, if you're one of those PC people, or get your little feelings hurt easily, and if you get offended easily, then don't read any further. In the 1960's when schools were being intergraded, most white people I know around Eunice, Ville Platte, Opelousas, and Crowley most parents sent their kids to private schools for ONE reason only. They didn't want their kids going to school with the black kids. That's the pure, simple truth. It may have had a little to do with religion or sports or a better education, but the MAIN reason was the one I just mentioned. And in many cases, that still exists today. Now if you want to call me racists, go ahead. But first I want y'all to know, me, my siblings, and ALL my kids went to public schools. And it wasn't because I couldn't afford to send my kids to a private school. And I'm not saying we were the only ones who thought that way. My kids got into a couple of fights with black kids, but they also got into a couple of fights with white kids. I ALWAYS taught my kids to not think they are more than anyone. But don't put yourself less than anyone. My whole point is why can't people just admit the way the majority think? My two favorite schools are private. But I will admit, they do have an unfair advantage in sports over public schools. Don't understand how anyone can argue that.
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Post by indy on May 19, 2019 18:11:45 GMT -6
Well I'll give my humble opinion. First, if you're one of those PC people, or get your little feelings hurt easily, and if you get offended easily, then don't read any further. In the 1960's when schools were being intergraded, most white people I know around Eunice, Ville Platte, Opelousas, and Crowley most parents sent their kids to private schools for ONE reason only. They didn't want their kids going to school with the black kids. That's the pure, simple truth. It may have had a little to do with religion or sports or a better education, but the MAIN reason was the one I just mentioned. And in many cases, that still exists today. Now if you want to call me racists, go ahead. But first I want y'all to know, me, my siblings, and ALL my kids went to public schools. And it wasn't because I couldn't afford to send my kids to a private school. And I'm not saying we were the only ones who thought that way. My kids got into a couple of fights with black kids, but they also got into a couple of fights with white kids. I ALWAYS taught my kids to not think they are more than anyone. But don't put yourself less than anyone. My whole point is why can't people just admit the way the majority think? My two favorite schools are private. But I will admit, they do have an unfair advantage in sports over public schools. Don't understand how anyone can argue that. We didn’t go to private schools to avoid blacks, we went to Catholic Schools because that’s all we knew. Never once did my public school friends ever say anything bad or had any problems that our parents sent us to different schools. And I never heard the word “private” school, only Catholic school. The word private school started when the “family owned business” schools came along.
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Post by eaglewatcher on May 28, 2019 6:37:15 GMT -6
You are correct. I get Benton and Bolton confused for some reason. And I'm not sure how I missed Winnfield. Their record is quite impressive. I wasn't sure if you guys considered yourselves Central LA or North LA being roughly halfway between Alex and Ruston. I probably meant to go back and add you guys in later and then the post got longer than I had anticipated and I forgot all about it. My apologies for any perceived slight. It was not intended. That’s not how I took it. Don’t forget Haynesville and Logansport for the Northwest. Was a time the biggest baddest public and private feared them. You are right about both Haynesville and Logansport having great teams but I no private school ever was scared to play Logansport or Haynesville. Haynesville set a bench mark for Evangel because Haynesville would go to Evangel and beat them with Bobby Ray Tell running the ball. After a couple of loses to Haynesville...Evangel murdered them at Haynesville one year and coach Franklin never played them again. He also got kicked out that game! Haynesville has always been a powerhouse but Logansport not so much. Coach Magee has done an awesome job bringing Logansports football program to wear it is today.
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Post by eaglewatcher on May 28, 2019 6:51:34 GMT -6
I can tell you this. I was following Evangel football when they first began playing. I know what brought about Evangel's success. It started with Denny Duron. When he outfitted his first team with borrowed uniforms and equipment he was determined to build a powerhouse football program in tandem with religion. Second, and don't ask me how, but in the first few years it just so happened that the Evangel zone produced about 20 of the best football players to ever play in Shreveport and most of those 20 or so players came from families living right in that zone. The school also hired excellent and dedicated coaches determined to build a football power and the community got behind them. That allowed for success on a very high scale. As someone mentioned in an earlier post Shreveport was hungry for a winner. The best players in Shreveport and eventually all of Norwest La, and beyond wanted to play for Evangel. I was at football game once between two Shreveport public schools and a fan of one of the schools sat down beside me with his junior high age son. This kid was already at least 6 ft. 2 in. tall and about 190. I asked him if he would be playing for his team in a couple of years. His dad said no, he was going to Evangel. And that's exactly what he did and later started for the Eagles. Get the picture? When you have the kind of success in football that Evangel had in the early years and you are in an area hungry for success you can get any player from anywhere that you want. The best players will either transfer legally into the zone and play or they will live outside the zone and sit out a year and play. And it's all legal.
Evangel never did anything wrong. Evangel should be commended for their success and for never breaking any rules but Evangel, like all private schools, had an unfair legal advantage over the public schools they were stomping. They could utilize the LHSAA rules to use players living outside their assigned zone. Did Evangel use the transfer and sit out rules to help win their championships? I'm pretty sure they did but I don't know how much they used it. It doesn't matter. The point is they HAD those rules and public schools could not utilize those SAME rules. Whether Evangel used those rules a little bit or a lot they had the opportunity to use those rules and public schools did not have that same opportunity. That my friends is not fair.
Evangel offered to play up to the highest classification and that's all they could do to solve the problem other than agree not to utilize the LHSAA rules they were given to play under and they would have been stupid to offer to do that. I agree with you 100 percent. Something else to think about is all the schools back in the 90's that started so called magnet programs which allowed kids to come to the school that lived outside their attendance zone. This was a legal way to recruit players for public schools and was perfectly legal by the LHSAA. Byrd in Shreveport is the biggest recruiting school in Shreveport. They even have buses that travel outside their attendance zone to pick the students up for school. That is a fact. Just ask the principle at BTW what he thinks about the buses picking his athletes up in front of his school! lol Also, look at the failing school student transfer rule the LHSAA installed a fewyears back. That rule helped Woodlawn get a team full of super talent and have a couple of great seasons. There are so many public schools that have found ways to recruit players by legal rules the LHSAA have designed. Evangel has never been on probation or been caught cheating in any shape or form by the LHSAA. I agree they had an advantage of getting players from different schools as long as they sit a year. But public have been doing it since the beginning also. Evangel and JC will always be great programs as long as God is taught at both of these schools. God has truly blessed both schools with great coaches, teachers and parents. Go Eagles!
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Post by icemanparsons on Jun 2, 2019 18:07:35 GMT -6
Wonderful info. I agree to an extent. To piggyback on your thesis, I'd like to extend what I believe separated JC and Evangel from other privates. You are exactly right. Those two HAVE to have something different otherwise we would have seen similar success in other private schools. Here is what I believe both of those schools have - or didn't have - which made them the juggernauts they are. I believe John Curtis and Evangel, both being private schools who played under a different set of rules - became so successful because neither of them are located in an area where a traditional PUBLIC powerhouse resides. This would explain why OCS, while being successful in their own class, likely would not have seen the same success against 4A and 5A competition. They reside in the same parish as West Monroe and Neville, both traditional powers. A John Curtis or Evangel would not have worked in the Monroe area due to this. John Curtis IS the traditional power in NOLA. Evangle IS the traditional power in Shreveport. You definitely have a point about the lack of a traditional public school power in Northwest Louisiana. At least in terms of championships. I know Byrd has a few (going back a few decades) and Airline and Woodlawn(SH) each have one. But it could depend on the way you define a traditional power. if it's strictly championships, then yes, you are absolutely correct. But if you're talking wins/losses or playoff appearances, then things bet a little more blurry. After checking out 14-0 Productions (Ray has done a wonderful job creating such a fantastic resource - still in awe of 64 's dedication) if we go by the number of times a school has made the playoffs there are still only a few in Northwest LA that could be considered powers. In 4A and 5A (I'm using today's classifications since I don't know what class they were in throughout each school's history) Bossier (36), Byrd (36 times), Haughton (35), Minden (34), Woodlawn (31) and Airline (30) have all made at least 30 playoff appearances. Granted, Byrd has been around since forever, so they've had a longer time to get in that many playoff appearances. In the smaller classes, Loyola (37) and Plain Dealing (32) have also had their fair share of success reaching the playoffs, but only 2 championships to show for it, both by Loyola back when they were they still known as Jesuit of Shreveport. The flip side of that is Northwest LA, which has probably the strongest tradition of successful public school football programs of any area in the state. Neville (55) leads both that area and the state overall in playoff appearances followed by Ruston (49), Ouachita (36) Wossman (35) and Bastrop (31). I set the benchmark at 30 and West Monroe just missed the cut with 29 appearances, but since they have a number of state titles they definitely deserve to be in that group. Even small schools in that area have had success. Oak Grove (44), Mangham (42) and Rayville (38) lead the way along with Jonesboro-Hodge, although I wasn't sure if I should include them with the Northwest schools or if they were closer to the CENLA schools. Ouachita Christian (32) and Lincoln Prep (30) round out the list of schools with 30 or more playoff appearances. So yes, I can see how it would be difficult for a private school to pull students away from these traditional powers when trying to build a program. Other areas in the state somewhat support your idea. Southwest LA also has over 20 schools with 30+ playoff appearances, even though some of them are also private schools, that could explain why none of them have developed into teams that consistently win championships. I'm including schools from the Lafayette, Lake Charles and Opelousas areas as part of teh Southwest region, so that covers a larger geographical area than most others. The Baton Rouge area has only 6 teams with 30+ playoff appearances, but only 3 of them are in East Baton Rouge Parish; Istrouma (35) who hasn't been considered a state power since the early 60s, Catholic High (35) and Baker (32). 2 of the others are in Iberville Parish: Plaquemine (35) and White Castle (32) but with only championship between them I don't think they would count as state powers. Theoretically, with the population of Baton Rouge and the surrounding area, it should not be difficult for a small private school like say Dunham or Episcopal, who both have a similar enrollment size to ECA and JC, to develop into a football powerhouse. Dunham has one championship from 2004 I believe, but I don't think Episcopal has ever won a football title. So there is something else holding back private schools in the BR area. Catholic obviously has had success, but their enrollment is in line with the other top 10 schools in enrollment size around the state, so their success at the 5A level should not be considered out of the ordinary. Central Louisiana is real puzzle. It covers a wide geographic area as well, but only has a few schools of note. Benton (31) is the only large school with a significant number of playoff appearances. In the smaller classes, Bunkie (36), Sicily Island (30) and Many (30) have been the only public schools with a continuing tradition of success. On the private side, Holy Savior Menard (32) has a number of playoff appearances and is located in the biggest city in that area. And as the only private school with a football team between the Mississippi border and St. Mary's in Natchitoches, they should be tearing it up on the gridiron. but they have also never won a championship. The New Orleans area is interesting. While Curtis would definitely have to be considered the top dog right now, many of their championships were won while they were still 2A and later in 4A (and then again in 2A during the play-in-class years). They consistently compete with and are able to win against the 5A Catholic League teams as well as the resurgent Warren Easton and Edna Karr. NOLA also has so many schools, public and private, not only in Orleans Parish, but also Jefferson, St. Bernard, St. Charles, St. Tammany and Plaquemines. Both Warren Easton (35) and West Jefferson (38) have a number of playoff appearances in the state's largest classification, as do John Ehret (32) and Destrehan (38). On the private side Jesuit (46) leads the way with Curtis (45) giving chase. Archbishop Shaw (35) and Holy Cross (34) have also seen much success. In the smaller classes both Isidore Newman (38) and Country Day (32) have had success on the field. There aren't that many NOLA public schools that are 3A or below and the ones that do exist are newer charter schools or schools who have only recently started football programs. When I say recently that's within the last 20-30 years so they haven't had a chance to make the playoffs that often. Riverside should also be mentioned in that group I suppose. While they have not made the playoffs as often as the others, they were previously part of the LISA league before joining the LHSAA and they did have playoff success while in that league. With the sheer number of schools in NOLA and the fierce competition that goes on between schools to get students, it's really amazing what Curtis has been able to do. They had to start small though and work their way up. It took them about 20 years before they were ready to to move into the upper classifications. They were 2A from 1970-1984, then moved up to 3A for 85-90, then moved up to 4A in 1991 where they stayed until 2005 when the play-in-class rule went into effect. Only after that was repealed did they move up to 5A. Compare that with Evangel who (and someone will correct me if I'm wrong I'm sure) only started playing football in the late 80s? Maybe? And was 1A through the 1994 season, then jumped to 3A for 4 years from 95-98, then jumped to 5A starting with the 99 season. They were able to jump to the state's highest classification in half the time it took Curtis to move up to 4A. So I think your theory really has merit when it comes to ECA and how they rose to dominance so quickly in an area that was hungry to support a winning team. As opposed to a private school trying to do the same thing in Northeast LA that has a much stronger tradition of winning public school programs. funny thing is that there are schools with 20 plus playoff apperances but have maybe a handful of wins....
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Post by iknownuthing on Jun 11, 2019 12:43:07 GMT -6
"Private schools have/had/has the same attendance zone as the closest public school by rule. STM/Comeaux, Teurlings/Northside ect. Your premise is/was/remains flowed" - What rule are your referring to? If this is the case then tell me why OCS has buses running through West Monroe and Bastrop when the closest public school is Sterlington. Don't believe me? Check for yourself - www.ocs.org/faq - My premise is solid.
1.11 RESIDENCE
1.11.1 School districts or attendance zones designated by the public school boards or the federal courts shall be used in determining the eligibility under the transfer rule. School bus routes shall not be used in determining the eligibility under this rule.
1.11.2 LHSAA non-public, university laboratory, and charter schools shall be bound by the same parish public school districts or attendance zones that have been designated by the parish public school boards or Federal Courts for the traditional public high school physically located in their area. 1. If a parish does not consist of at least one parish public traditional high school, the attendance zone(s) assigned to parish public full magnet high school(s) shall serve as the factor in determining the LHSAA athletic attendance zone for the non-public, university laboratory, charter, and state recovery public high schools physically located in their area. 2. The parish boundary lines shall serve as the athletic attendance zone for all non-public, university laboratory, and charter schools, if it does not contain a traditional public high school or a full magnet public high school. " This has nothing to do with athletics except that the LHSAA adopted them to setup an attendance rule."- It had EVERYTHING to with athletics. I really don't see any logical way to argue otherwise. See above rule. Nothing to do with athletics, schools are academic institutions. Sport is just a priviledge. "Except for possibly St. Paul's in Covington, no school in the state private or public has students from outside or the parish or the adjacent parish." - How would you know that? The answer is that you wouldn't. It's an assumption to suit your argument. And why should schools be allowed to have kids from adjacent parishes? Surely that isn't fair. JC has transportation routes reaching from Jefferson to Orleans Parish. This is the problem. Ok, prove it. Show one school, which one. St. Pauls has dormitories, I think Schools for the Deaf also. Other than those two name one. Who is the Kid? Name them.
"Yes, but private schools are restricted to the students they can take." - Any private schools CAN SELECT or DENY any student they want. How is that not an advantage over a public school who must accept any student within the attendance boundary? It is shear numbers. Public schools offer a free education to anyone who shows up and EVERY public school receives funds based on that enrollment. Private schools have a much smaller pool to chose from. First the parents must be willing to and have the ability to pay the tuition. No assistance or break from the state. (except for the few voucher schools) Second most private schools in LA are religious schools, Catholic, Baptist, Evangelical or other independent support. This restricts the numbers that are willing and even in some cases eligible to attend those schools. Protestant schools in S. LA are small and far between why catholic are larger due to the general population trend. But public schools have all flavors and have a regular and steady stream of athletes regardless of ability to pay or religious preference. I will concede that most private schools have an advantage in attracting the family unit and the more highly educated population and thus it gives them an advantage to have a better prepared, better discipline and thus a better learning environment for the student and student athlete.
"Despite the false narrative that there are "scholarships" with only a possible exception of 1 maybe two private schools, require all students to pay for attendance, anywhere from $7k to $12K per year per student, depending on the school."- False narrative? Definitely not. - catholichigh.org/giving/scholarship-opportunities/ - Catholic has over 130 scholarships. - www.johncurtis.com/files/7214/8408/0186/Scholarships__Financial_Aid.pdf - John Curtis has an "undetermined" number of scholarships available, plus work study. It is absolutely the TRUTH that private schools with some of the BEST football programs offer scholarships to defray tuition. To say otherwise is an outright lie. Those scholarships are general academic scholarships and are targeted towards the needy and financial needy. They are not Athletic scholarships which are given not based on athletic ability what so ever. There is NO provision in any of these for students based on athletic prowess. Also, these have been approved by the LHSAA as appropriate and they are regularly see yearly reviewed, monitored and tested by the LHSAA. It is an annual review. And most of these scholarships come in the form of tuition assistance only to pay a portion of the tuition to make it more affordable for the struggling family. Mean while every athlete at EVERY public school gets a 100% paid for full ride athletic scholarship and you are whining about some financial assistance?"The cherry picking is not done by the school but by the parent who looks at the poor quality of education offered by the public system and then cherry picks the best possible school for their kids, with a tuition they can afford that has a location that is appropriate and accessable."Wow, where to start. First, privates SELECT their student body. This is cherry picking. They can reject any student who applies. It is their right as a private school. Have you ever thought that maybe the "poor" quality of education offered by public schools is relative to the fact that UNLIKE PRIVATE schools, public schools must ACCEPT ALL STUDENTS. Privates choose every single student in their school; no student was forced into their school. Cherry picking. You again miss the point. The cherry picking is not done by the school, it is done by the PARENT who chooses to send their children where they feel is best for their children. If you hate private schools and want them to go away fix the public schools. Oh, and in Lafayette parish over 1/3 of the students in the parish go to private (mostly catholic) schools Pre k through 12. "Your premise is borne out of ignorance of who the people are that send their kids to private schools."- No, not at all. I don't have to know "who the people are" who send their kids to private schools to know that private schools have had inherent advantages over public schools. Prove my point, you admit that your opinion is born out of ignorance." They are your neighbors, major tax payers and people that are willing to sacrifice to give their kids the best possible education they can give them."- So you are saying that public schools parents aren't your "neighbors", that they don't pay "major" taxes (please explain what a "major" tax is), and that they don't sacrifice for their kids??? How ignorant. This isn't remotely close to the truth. Public school parents pay just the same taxes as private schools and those same taxes make their way into private schools just as they do with public schools. I am saying although you may not want to understand and refuse to accept it, is that the people who choose public school, by the majority are the same class, job and pay status as the average public school parent. The difference is that they are willing to for go the "free" thing for something they perceive as better. " They are also usually the more faithful members of their church to support both the church and the church school." - How in the world can you say private school parents are "more faithful to their church" over public school parents? That's short-sided, misinformed and delusional. Besides, what in the world does this have to do with ANYTHING related to the FACT that private schools have had an inherent advantage over public schools because they can select their students and they have no attendance boundaries? The attendance zone rule you are referencing is either farcical or nonexistent as I have linked OCS' faq page which clearly shows three bus routes: Monroe, West Monroe and Bastrop. The closest public school to OCS is Sterlington. What gives?? No it is based on clear cut observation of who is working and supporting the churches. They have skin in the game and are the givers in most of the churches. Oh, I have seen the numbers at the dioceses. As for bus route an attendance zone has participation requirements per the rule posted above. it is not a farce it is a fact. But those things tend to escape your arguments.
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Post by iknownuthing on Jun 11, 2019 12:51:37 GMT -6
Well I'll give my humble opinion. First, if you're one of those PC people, or get your little feelings hurt easily, and if you get offended easily, then don't read any further. In the 1960's when schools were being intergraded, most white people I know around Eunice, Ville Platte, Opelousas, and Crowley most parents sent their kids to private schools for ONE reason only. They didn't want their kids going to school with the black kids. That's the pure, simple truth. It may have had a little to do with religion or sports or a better education, but the MAIN reason was the one I just mentioned. And in many cases, that still exists today. Now if you want to call me racists, go ahead. But first I want y'all to know, me, my siblings, and ALL my kids went to public schools. And it wasn't because I couldn't afford to send my kids to a private school. And I'm not saying we were the only ones who thought that way. My kids got into a couple of fights with black kids, but they also got into a couple of fights with white kids. I ALWAYS taught my kids to not think they are more than anyone. But don't put yourself less than anyone. My whole point is why can't people just admit the way the majority think? My two favorite schools are private. But I will admit, they do have an unfair advantage in sports over public schools. Don't understand how anyone can argue that. We didn’t go to private schools to avoid blacks, we went to Catholic Schools because that’s all we knew. Never once did my public school friends ever say anything bad or had any problems that our parents sent us to different schools. And I never heard the word “private” school, only Catholic school. The word private school started when the “family owned business” schools came along. Just more fallacy. Particularly with Catholic Schools. Just about EVERY Catholic school in this state pre-existed and was thriving before the integrations of the 1970s. STM is one of the few to have come up afterwards and it was a consolidation of two schools Cathedral and Fatima. Many of these smaller town Catholic schools go back before there was public education in this state such as Grand Coteau being the oldest existing school in Louisiana public or private. Many found their origins in the early 1900s and have been around longer than UL.
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Post by indy on Jun 11, 2019 14:34:15 GMT -6
Notre Dame is also a consolation
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Post by iamray on Jun 11, 2019 14:47:16 GMT -6
"Private schools have/had/has the same attendance zone as the closest public school by rule. STM/Comeaux, Teurlings/Northside ect. Your premise is/was/remains flowed" - What rule are your referring to? If this is the case then tell me why OCS has buses running through West Monroe and Bastrop when the closest public school is Sterlington. Don't believe me? Check for yourself - www.ocs.org/faq - My premise is solid.
1.11 RESIDENCE
1.11.1 School districts or attendance zones designated by the public school boards or the federal courts shall be used in determining the eligibility under the transfer rule. School bus routes shall not be used in determining the eligibility under this rule.
1.11.2 LHSAA non-public, university laboratory, and charter schools shall be bound by the same parish public school districts or attendance zones that have been designated by the parish public school boards or Federal Courts for the traditional public high school physically located in their area. 1. If a parish does not consist of at least one parish public traditional high school, the attendance zone(s) assigned to parish public full magnet high school(s) shall serve as the factor in determining the LHSAA athletic attendance zone for the non-public, university laboratory, charter, and state recovery public high schools physically located in their area. 2. The parish boundary lines shall serve as the athletic attendance zone for all non-public, university laboratory, and charter schools, if it does not contain a traditional public high school or a full magnet public high school. " This has nothing to do with athletics except that the LHSAA adopted them to setup an attendance rule."- It had EVERYTHING to with athletics. I really don't see any logical way to argue otherwise. See above rule. Nothing to do with athletics, schools are academic institutions. Sport is just a priviledge. "Except for possibly St. Paul's in Covington, no school in the state private or public has students from outside or the parish or the adjacent parish." - How would you know that? The answer is that you wouldn't. It's an assumption to suit your argument. And why should schools be allowed to have kids from adjacent parishes? Surely that isn't fair. JC has transportation routes reaching from Jefferson to Orleans Parish. This is the problem. Ok, prove it. Show one school, which one. St. Pauls has dormitories, I think Schools for the Deaf also. Other than those two name one. Who is the Kid? Name them.
"Yes, but private schools are restricted to the students they can take." - Any private schools CAN SELECT or DENY any student they want. How is that not an advantage over a public school who must accept any student within the attendance boundary? It is shear numbers. Public schools offer a free education to anyone who shows up and EVERY public school receives funds based on that enrollment. Private schools have a much smaller pool to chose from. First the parents must be willing to and have the ability to pay the tuition. No assistance or break from the state. (except for the few voucher schools) Second most private schools in LA are religious schools, Catholic, Baptist, Evangelical or other independent support. This restricts the numbers that are willing and even in some cases eligible to attend those schools. Protestant schools in S. LA are small and far between why catholic are larger due to the general population trend. But public schools have all flavors and have a regular and steady stream of athletes regardless of ability to pay or religious preference. I will concede that most private schools have an advantage in attracting the family unit and the more highly educated population and thus it gives them an advantage to have a better prepared, better discipline and thus a better learning environment for the student and student athlete.
"Despite the false narrative that there are "scholarships" with only a possible exception of 1 maybe two private schools, require all students to pay for attendance, anywhere from $7k to $12K per year per student, depending on the school."- False narrative? Definitely not. - catholichigh.org/giving/scholarship-opportunities/ - Catholic has over 130 scholarships. - www.johncurtis.com/files/7214/8408/0186/Scholarships__Financial_Aid.pdf - John Curtis has an "undetermined" number of scholarships available, plus work study. It is absolutely the TRUTH that private schools with some of the BEST football programs offer scholarships to defray tuition. To say otherwise is an outright lie. Those scholarships are general academic scholarships and are targeted towards the needy and financial needy. They are not Athletic scholarships which are given not based on athletic ability what so ever. There is NO provision in any of these for students based on athletic prowess. Also, these have been approved by the LHSAA as appropriate and they are regularly see yearly reviewed, monitored and tested by the LHSAA. It is an annual review. And most of these scholarships come in the form of tuition assistance only to pay a portion of the tuition to make it more affordable for the struggling family. Mean while every athlete at EVERY public school gets a 100% paid for full ride athletic scholarship and you are whining about some financial assistance?"The cherry picking is not done by the school but by the parent who looks at the poor quality of education offered by the public system and then cherry picks the best possible school for their kids, with a tuition they can afford that has a location that is appropriate and accessable."Wow, where to start. First, privates SELECT their student body. This is cherry picking. They can reject any student who applies. It is their right as a private school. Have you ever thought that maybe the "poor" quality of education offered by public schools is relative to the fact that UNLIKE PRIVATE schools, public schools must ACCEPT ALL STUDENTS. Privates choose every single student in their school; no student was forced into their school. Cherry picking. You again miss the point. The cherry picking is not done by the school, it is done by the PARENT who chooses to send their children where they feel is best for their children. If you hate private schools and want them to go away fix the public schools. Oh, and in Lafayette parish over 1/3 of the students in the parish go to private (mostly catholic) schools Pre k through 12. "Your premise is borne out of ignorance of who the people are that send their kids to private schools."- No, not at all. I don't have to know "who the people are" who send their kids to private schools to know that private schools have had inherent advantages over public schools. Prove my point, you admit that your opinion is born out of ignorance." They are your neighbors, major tax payers and people that are willing to sacrifice to give their kids the best possible education they can give them."- So you are saying that public schools parents aren't your "neighbors", that they don't pay "major" taxes (please explain what a "major" tax is), and that they don't sacrifice for their kids??? How ignorant. This isn't remotely close to the truth. Public school parents pay just the same taxes as private schools and those same taxes make their way into private schools just as they do with public schools. I am saying although you may not want to understand and refuse to accept it, is that the people who choose public school, by the majority are the same class, job and pay status as the average public school parent. The difference is that they are willing to for go the "free" thing for something they perceive as better. " They are also usually the more faithful members of their church to support both the church and the church school." - How in the world can you say private school parents are "more faithful to their church" over public school parents? That's short-sided, misinformed and delusional. Besides, what in the world does this have to do with ANYTHING related to the FACT that private schools have had an inherent advantage over public schools because they can select their students and they have no attendance boundaries? The attendance zone rule you are referencing is either farcical or nonexistent as I have linked OCS' faq page which clearly shows three bus routes: Monroe, West Monroe and Bastrop. The closest public school to OCS is Sterlington. What gives?? No it is based on clear cut observation of who is working and supporting the churches. They have skin in the game and are the givers in most of the churches. Oh, I have seen the numbers at the dioceses. As for bus route an attendance zone has participation requirements per the rule posted above. it is not a farce it is a fact. But those things tend to escape your arguments.Sorry, this took you too long. This conversation came along way in your absence. Kenny Powers showed me that private schools do have attendance boundaries. So I was wrong there. I’d still like to know how OCS can send buses to West Monroe and Bastrop if they are supposedly confined to the same zone as Sterlington. Seems unfair. I don’t care for you observations, either. It doesn’t change my mind. Everyone observes. Also, I never said private schools had athletic scholarships. That would be impermissible. But they do offer scholarships to cover tuition for athletes who otherwise couldn’t afford tuition at whichever school. It’s real. To assume every student at a private school is there for academics first is naive. Thanks for the input, though.
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Post by chalmetteowl on Jun 11, 2019 14:51:11 GMT -6
We didn’t go to private schools to avoid blacks, we went to Catholic Schools because that’s all we knew. Never once did my public school friends ever say anything bad or had any problems that our parents sent us to different schools. And I never heard the word “private” school, only Catholic school. The word private school started when the “family owned business” schools came along. Just more fallacy. Particularly with Catholic Schools. Just about EVERY Catholic school in this state pre-existed and was thriving before the integrations of the 1970s. STM is one of the few to have come up afterwards and it was a consolidation of two schools Cathedral and Fatima. Many of these smaller town Catholic schools go back before there was public education in this state such as Grand Coteau being the oldest existing school in Louisiana public or private. Many found their origins in the early 1900s and have been around longer than UL. Can they beat 1727 and Ursuline Academy?
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