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Post by billyb on Jun 27, 2019 11:25:03 GMT -6
Everybody on this board knows that it is monitored by Coaches, Administrators, and the Media (and the LHSAA). I've seen it sourced in articles, and seen it listed as a source on the web.
So without calling each other names, or questioning each others manhood/s I would like to hear from those genuinely interested in the subject.
We have to all be in agreement that the current system is broken, our playoffs and championships are a disaster. We are heading for a completely new private association. That is not going to benefit either side in the debate (our state is just not big enough).
There are always going to private and public schools that cheat (break/bend the rules) to improve their teams, but I have a feeling that most Coaches and Administrators don't want to live with the guilt and shame of being a cheater. So what do the rules need to be, to make it fair? What would make public schools feel like the deck was not stacked against them (Attendance zones, Step up in Classification/s?) It is a concern and I get it.
Unless I have missed it (and I may have) the public school members have never proposed a set of rules that if followed would allow a private school member to compete as a non select member of the association?
I do think the privates are going to form a new association to include all interested privates and the charters (profitable gates, championships, maybe good for them, maybe not), that will only further divide what I thought was the best thing about Louisiana, great high school sports.
What does it take to end the split?
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Post by superdome2018 on Jun 27, 2019 11:34:03 GMT -6
How many split threads do we need. Everybody has said their views on it and then some, and it always gets ugly. I don’t see it ever coming back together. So I’d like to see if they can improve it and make it the best it could possibly be. Let’s dont start calling each other out. Respect every bodies opinion, if people would do that I think we could get more accomplished.
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Post by iknownuthing on Jun 27, 2019 12:02:54 GMT -6
It's time for the LHSAA Traditional Public Schools to man up and toss the PRIVATES, CHARTERS, LABS and MAGNANT schools out of the LHSAA.
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Post by unbiasedobserver on Jun 27, 2019 12:12:39 GMT -6
It's time for the LHSAA Traditional Public Schools to man up and toss the PRIVATES, CHARTERS, LABS and MAGNANT schools out of the LHSAA. Aren’t the “selects” the ones that are trying to get out from under the thumb of the LHSAA?
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Post by superdome2018 on Jun 27, 2019 12:15:50 GMT -6
It's time for the LHSAA Traditional Public Schools to man up and toss the PRIVATES, CHARTERS, LABS and MAGNANT schools out of the LHSAA. Aren’t the “selects” the ones that are trying to get out from under the thumb of the LHSAA? I don’t believe they do. I don’t think they want that at all.
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Post by indy on Jun 27, 2019 12:34:42 GMT -6
Superdome
Why is your opinion of i don't see it getting back together so move on more valid than someone else's opinion of not liking the split more valid?
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Post by indy on Jun 27, 2019 12:35:18 GMT -6
I get your tired of seeing these spreads.
Don't you think that the "select" are tired of being kicked out?
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Post by retired on Jun 27, 2019 12:35:43 GMT -6
Everybody on this board knows that it is monitored by Coaches, Administrators, and the Media (and the LHSAA). I've seen it sourced in articles, and seen it listed as a source on the web.
So without calling each other names, or questioning each others manhood/s I would like to hear from those genuinely interested in the subject.
We have to all be in agreement that the current system is broken, our playoffs and championships are a disaster. We are heading for a completely new private association. That is not going to benefit either side in the debate (our state is just not big enough).
There are always going to private and public schools that cheat (break/bend the rules) to improve their teams, but I have a feeling that most Coaches and Administrators don't want to live with the guilt and shame of being a cheater. So what do the rules need to be, to make it fair? What would make public schools feel like the deck was not stacked against them (Attendance zones, Step up in Classification/s?) It is a concern and I get it.
Unless I have missed it (and I may have) the public school members have never proposed a set of rules that if followed would allow a private school member to compete as a non select member of the association?
I do think the privates are going to form a new association to include all interested privates and the charters (profitable gates, championships, maybe good for them, maybe not), that will only further divide what I thought was the best thing about Louisiana, great high school sports.
What does it take to end the split? I appreciate the level headed manner in which this presented, but surely you realize that your (and the vast majority of those posting here) point of view is that of a fan. Not of someone actually involved in the situation, or participating in the situation. I would also say that I don't believe that everyone thinks the "current system is broken" I don't personally think it is great, but I am sure there are some that do. Because each of the member schools in the LHSAA is unique, then anything that is equal is not going to be fair, and anything that is fair will not be equal. That has to be the basis from which any discussion starts.
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Post by iknownuthing on Jun 27, 2019 12:43:39 GMT -6
It's time for the LHSAA Traditional Public Schools to man up and toss the PRIVATES, CHARTERS, LABS and MAGNANT schools out of the LHSAA. Aren’t the “selects” the ones that are trying to get out from under the thumb of the LHSAA? Yes, what's your point? Mine is, you don't want to play us, don't want us in your district. Whine and cry at the district meetings about having to be in the district with us, then man up and make the proposal to get rid of us completely. If it is unfair for us to play you in the playoffs, even more so for you to have to prove yourself in district play.
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Post by superdome2018 on Jun 27, 2019 12:43:58 GMT -6
Superdome Why is your opinion of i don't see it getting back together so move on more valid than someone else's opinion of not liking the split more valid? Never said mine was more valid. I’m merely stating it’s been voted on what seems like a hundred times. So it’s obviously what the majority wants so let’s fix it and make it the best it can be. I’m not on here to be ugly and disrespect people. I value every bodies opinion.
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Post by indy on Jun 27, 2019 12:51:39 GMT -6
One hundred times, really?
Let's not get crazy with exaggeration. It's never been a 2/3 rds vote. Number of votes let's see original split, split basketball, baseball, softball. Then combine.
Now let's look at the percentage of schools who have change principals since then which is a very significant percentage and let's look at the misinformation that was put out about the special meeting before the re vote.
I just can't see where we have to try to continue to discriminate against kids and deny them opportunities to compete while rewarding others for not working very hard and to make sure we are clear i mean the everyone in the playoffs group those who are two and three win teams.
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Post by indy on Jun 27, 2019 12:59:03 GMT -6
Let's be honest Karr has the same advantages over every other school just like John Curtis and Evangel did which led to this issue we have now
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Post by indy on Jun 27, 2019 13:03:00 GMT -6
Aren’t the “selects” the ones that are trying to get out from under the thumb of the LHSAA? Yes, what's your point? Mine is, you don't want to play us, don't want us in your district. Whine and cry at the district meetings about having to be in the district with us, then man up and make the proposal to get rid of us completely. If it is unfair for us to play you in the playoffs, even more so for you to have to prove yourself in district play. Seriously, You are asking Jane, Norma and a big group of men with no balls to man up? Lol.
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Post by fanman on Jun 27, 2019 13:40:51 GMT -6
probably will regret this Whining continues about the split. Worse than Dems whining about Trump. Many won’t be happy until the private schools again have the upper hand on public schools Just my opinion
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Post by Southplaq on Jun 27, 2019 14:27:32 GMT -6
Being a public school graduate, and having played against certain private schools, I like the split in a way. People can come on here and say that private schools or magnate schools (like Karr) don't have a potential advantage when it comes to sports, but its total bullpoop. People can come on here and say, "Oh, these public schools just have to work harder, or get better coaching and facilities and they will be able to compete", well, that might be true for larger schools in Class 4A or 5A where there may be 800 boys in high schools to choose from to play sports, but its definitely not the case for smaller schools. Usually in Class 1A and 2A (and some 3A schools), these schools are in small communities, and in the majority of cases, the kids that they get come from those small communities, so you don't have a vast number of boys to choose from; whereas, some private schools in that class, are NOT restricted to attendance zones and can get kids from basically anywhere, which, in itself, is an inherent advantage at the smaller school level. It's not fair for schools like Evangel, Riverside, and Curtis who are all truly Class 2A schools (enrollment-wise) to play against schools like Buras, Mansfield, Oberlin, Ville Platte, Winnfield, Fisher, etc. I don't care if you bring in Bill Belichick as the coach of these teams, they will NOT beat teams like Curtis, Riverside, or ECA. Like, I stated, I think this becomes an issue in the lower classifications, I don't see it affecting the larger classes as much because of the number of boys you have to choose from. In essence, if you have 800 boys at your high school, you should be able to find 50 darn good athletes to play football. In other words, schools like Acadiana, West Monroe, or Destrehan has a better chance of competing with, and beating, schools like Baton Rough Catholic or Jesuit, on a consistent basis than Fisher or Oberlin has at beating LCA or Southern Lab. Now, there are exceptions at the lower classes with areas that seem to produce tremendous athletes year after year like, Kentwood, WSJ, Oak Grove, Haynesville, but they are few and far between. Curtis and ECA playing up was a good start to fix these inherent advantages. Here is just a small example, South plaq which is a public school, used to destroy Country Day (private school) in football. Shouldn't CD, being a private school, have that "inherent advantage"? well, CD isn't really a "football school", But I'd be damn, if CD doesn't get top notch basketball players from all over the area, year after year, and not only did they destroy South Plaq in basketball, but was able to beat top-notched Class 4A and 5A basketball schools consistently. So don't tell me that it's fair for schools like CD to be in the same Class as schools like Ringgold, Basile, Gueydan, Bunkie, Vinton, etc! Those schools will never beat CD.
Now, do lots of public schools, "recruit" or get kids outside of their school zone? Hell yeah they do, but is it enough at the smaller school classification to help them compete on a consistent basis against other schools in those classes who are known as "football schools"? NO! There is so much to debate here, so many small things to nitpick , so many questions to answer. Its complicated because there are many exceptions. If I point out every single thing that I want to say or see, or every possible rebuttal I foresee, this post could go on for 50 paragraphs. So, I can briefly address any responses with my opinion to anything I've said.
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Post by superdome2018 on Jun 27, 2019 14:49:59 GMT -6
Great post South Plaq!
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Post by unbiasedobserver on Jun 27, 2019 15:16:04 GMT -6
Aren’t the “selects” the ones that are trying to get out from under the thumb of the LHSAA? Yes, what's your point? Mine is, you don't want to play us, don't want us in your district. Whine and cry at the district meetings about having to be in the district with us, then man up and make the proposal to get rid of us completely. If it is unfair for us to play you in the playoffs, even more so for you to have to prove yourself in district play. Lol. I’m a private school guy man. Was just asking a question in reference to you saying the LHSAA should “kick out” the privates.
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Post by indy on Jun 27, 2019 16:08:01 GMT -6
I can agree with the point about enrollment made by south Plaquemine
Just understand this too How do you justify kicking out the private’s when the LEA’s offer certain public schools the same advantages of attendance zones the private’s havw?
Wouldn’t it be better to come back together with a multiplier than to kick people out?
Private’s don't want the upper hand Just want fair treatment
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Post by kbanes on Jun 27, 2019 17:03:16 GMT -6
To the OP,
While your opinions may be great opinions, they are moot, at this point.
There is no need (or desire?) for the publics to "kick out" the privates. The publics have it pretty much the way that they want it. They get to play the privates during the regular season, and can ignore them in the playoffs. Whats not to like about that?
I don't for one minute believe that there is any serious move by the Privates to create their own organization. And I don't think that the Publics would really care if they did. It would have a small effect on rural Public schools (travel), and essentially no effect on the metro Public schools. It would have a much larger effect on all Privates as far as travel is concerned.
As I have said before, Mississippi can tell us a lot about the split system concept as it applies to Public/Private schools. As a product of the Mississippi system, I can see the potential outcomes from a full split. The Publics have nothing to worry about.
There isn't going to be an end to the split, unless the Privates break away.
There is no rule change that is going to satisfy a majority of both sides.
Relax. Enjoy football. Its still pretty good.
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Post by khsyellowjackets94 on Jun 27, 2019 17:22:17 GMT -6
Being a public school graduate, and having played against certain private schools, I like the split in a way. People can come on here and say that private schools or magnate schools (like Karr) don't have a potential advantage when it comes to sports, but its total bullpoop. People can come on here and say, "Oh, these public schools just have to work harder, or get better coaching and facilities and they will be able to compete", well, that might be true for larger schools in Class 4A or 5A where there may be 800 boys in high schools to choose from to play sports, but its definitely not the case for smaller schools. Usually in Class 1A and 2A (and some 3A schools), these schools are in small communities, and in the majority of cases, the kids that they get come from those small communities, so you don't have a vast number of boys to choose from; whereas, some private schools in that class, are NOT restricted to attendance zones and can get kids from basically anywhere, which, in itself, is an inherent advantage at the smaller school level. It's not fair for schools like Evangel, Riverside, and Curtis who are all truly Class 2A schools (enrollment-wise) to play against schools like Buras, Mansfield, Oberlin, Ville Platte, Winnfield, Fisher, etc. I don't care if you bring in Bill Belichick as the coach of these teams, they will NOT beat teams like Curtis, Riverside, or ECA. Like, I stated, I think this becomes an issue in the lower classifications, I don't see it affecting the larger classes as much because of the number of boys you have to choose from. In essence, if you have 800 boys at your high school, you should be able to find 50 darn good athletes to play football. In other words, schools like Acadiana, West Monroe, or Destrehan has a better chance of competing with, and beating, schools like Baton Rough Catholic or Jesuit, on a consistent basis than Fisher or Oberlin has at beating LCA or Southern Lab. Now, there are exceptions at the lower classes with areas that seem to produce tremendous athletes year after year like, Kentwood, WSJ, Oak Grove, Haynesville, but they are few and far between. Curtis and ECA playing up was a good start to fix these inherent advantages. Here is just a small example, South plaq which is a public school, used to destroy Country Day (private school) in football. Shouldn't CD, being a private school, have that "inherent advantage"? well, CD isn't really a "football school", But I'd be damn, if CD doesn't get top notch basketball players from all over the area, year after year, and not only did they destroy South Plaq in basketball, but was able to beat top-notched Class 4A and 5A basketball schools consistently. So don't tell me that it's fair for schools like CD to be in the same Class as schools like Ringgold, Basile, Gueydan, Bunkie, Vinton, etc! Those schools will never beat CD. Now, do lots of public schools, "recruit" or get kids outside of their school zone? Hell yeah they do, but is it enough at the smaller school classification to help them compete on a consistent basis against other schools in those classes who are known as "football schools"? NO! There is so much to debate here, so many small things to nitpick , so many questions to answer. Its complicated because there are many exceptions. If I point out every single thing that I want to say or see, or every possible rebuttal I foresee, this post could go on for 50 paragraphs. So, I can briefly address any responses with my opinion to anything I've said. Well said.
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Post by indy on Jun 27, 2019 17:58:10 GMT -6
Nice bigotry kbanes
Impressive for an adult to celebrate oppression and promote bullying
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Post by indy on Jun 27, 2019 18:02:12 GMT -6
When a dues paying member of an organization isn’t allowed to be in the same bracket as the other dues paying members how is that not kicked out?
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Post by iamray on Jun 27, 2019 19:47:08 GMT -6
Aren’t the “selects” the ones that are trying to get out from under the thumb of the LHSAA? Yes, what's your point? Mine is, you don't want to play us, don't want us in your district. Whine and cry at the district meetings about having to be in the district with us, then man up and make the proposal to get rid of us completely. If it is unfair for us to play you in the playoffs, even more so for you to have to prove yourself in district play. Two things: A. Who is "us?" B. Who whined and cried at the district meetings?
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Post by iamray on Jun 27, 2019 19:51:18 GMT -6
I can agree with the point about enrollment made by south Plaquemine Just understand this too How do you justify kicking out the private’s when the LEA’s offer certain public schools the same advantages of attendance zones the private’s havw? Wouldn’t it be better to come back together with a multiplier than to kick people out? Private’s don't want the upper hand Just want fair treatment Yea, to piggyback on that, why are the rules different throughout the state? We don't have whatever weird open enrollment you speak of down in your area. Schools like Neville, West Monroe and such have attendance zones they are required to follow. In other words, they cannot legally have kids from all over the parish like what some schools down south do. I suppose this is because of population? I seriously don't know but I find it incredibly convoluted to have different attendance boundary rules for the same types of schools located in separate parts of the state. It can't be more uniform than that?
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Post by alcoholic66 on Jun 27, 2019 20:06:32 GMT -6
I can agree with the point about enrollment made by south Plaquemine Just understand this too How do you justify kicking out the private’s when the LEA’s offer certain public schools the same advantages of attendance zones the private’s havw? Wouldn’t it be better to come back together with a multiplier than to kick people out? Private’s don't want the upper hand Just want fair treatment Yea, to piggyback on that, why are the rules different throughout the state? We don't have whatever weird open enrollment you speak of down in your area. Schools like Neville, West Monroe and such have attendance zones they are required to follow. In other words, they cannot legally have kids from all over the parish like what some schools down south do. I suppose this is because of population? I seriously don't know but I find it incredibly convoluted to have different attendance boundary rules for the same types of schools located in separate parts of the state. It can't be more uniform than that? I am curious how many students are enrolled at West Monroe?
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Post by retired on Jun 27, 2019 20:07:55 GMT -6
I can agree with the point about enrollment made by south Plaquemine Just understand this too How do you justify kicking out the private’s when the LEA’s offer certain public schools the same advantages of attendance zones the private’s havw? Wouldn’t it be better to come back together with a multiplier than to kick people out? Private’s don't want the upper hand Just want fair treatment Yea, to piggyback on that, why are the rules different throughout the state? We don't have whatever weird open enrollment you speak of down in your area. Schools like Neville, West Monroe and such have attendance zones they are required to follow. In other words, they cannot legally have kids from all over the parish like what some schools down south do. I suppose this is because of population? I seriously don't know but I find it incredibly convoluted to have different attendance boundary rules for the same types of schools located in separate parts of the state. It can't be more uniform than that? By down south, do you mean Bossier? Because from what I understand, their parish wide magnet program essentially creates an open enrollment situation. And while I understand the point you are trying to make, please recognize that including West Monroe (creators of the 8+ program for hold backs and seems to magically get transfers each year) as an example of a school that is somehow stymied by attendance zones hinders the argument.
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Post by indy on Jun 27, 2019 20:17:24 GMT -6
Glad y’all mentioned bossier but don’t forget parkway
By the way the lhsaa doesn’t determine zones it’s the LEA There does not exist a parish adjacent to Acadia that forces the kids to follow attendance zones
I have a hard time believing Neville and West Monroe follow zones like you are saying
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Post by kbanes on Jun 27, 2019 21:07:20 GMT -6
Nice bigotry kbanes Impressive for an adult to celebrate oppression and promote bullying What in the holy heck? I'm not celebrating oppression or promoting bullying. I'm telling you what I see. I'm not telling you that I agree with. Get your head out of your rear end.
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Post by superdome2018 on Jun 27, 2019 21:39:13 GMT -6
That horse was dead a long time ago.... quit beating it! LOL
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Post by indy on Jun 27, 2019 22:47:18 GMT -6
Kbanes
You obviously don’t think about what you write
You take note of the fact that the public’s have pushed the private’s out of the playoffs and somehow don’t equate that with being kicked out
Then you talk about full split in Mississippi saying well private’s can’t just leave
Sure seems to be trying to stick it to the private’s to me
We can’t all be like other posters who love the split can’t help but wonder if superdome was a North desoto fan and had to deal with LARR, Warren Easton or Neville If he would sing a different song or 5a and had to deal with West Monroe or Acadiana
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