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Post by iamray on Jun 28, 2019 5:26:41 GMT -6
Yea, to piggyback on that, why are the rules different throughout the state? We don't have whatever weird open enrollment you speak of down in your area. Schools like Neville, West Monroe and such have attendance zones they are required to follow. In other words, they cannot legally have kids from all over the parish like what some schools down south do. I suppose this is because of population? I seriously don't know but I find it incredibly convoluted to have different attendance boundary rules for the same types of schools located in separate parts of the state. It can't be more uniform than that? I am curious how many students are enrolled at West Monroe? Hovers right around 2,000. Give or take 100.
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Post by kbanes on Jun 28, 2019 6:40:56 GMT -6
Kbanes You obviously don’t think about what you write You take note of the fact that the public’s have pushed the private’s out of the playoffs and somehow don’t equate that with being kicked out Then you talk about full split in Mississippi saying well private’s can’t just leave Sure seems to be trying to stick it to the private’s to me We can’t all be like other posters who love the split can’t help but wonder if superdome was a North desoto fan and had to deal with LARR, Warren Easton or Neville If he would sing a different song or 5a and had to deal with West Monroe or Acadiana Yes, I think about what I write. Do you think about what you misconstrue so you can fly into your "snowflake" anger?
No, I do not equate having the Privates pushed out of the playoffs with having the Privates kicked out of the Association. Because the two are not the same thing.
I never said that the Privates can't break away. Don't be an . Of course the Privates can break away. I said that I believe that there is no serious move to start their own organization.
They can do whatever they want. I suspect that you are "snowflaked" because I don't think that the Privates leaving would be the Association shattering disaster that you like to think that it would be.
The fact of the matter is that we have now gone 6 years with a split in football, an the Privates are still in the Association. In that time, the split has crept across other sports. If the "outrage" of the Privates hasn't solidified into a move by now, I doubt that it will any time soon. That tells me that the Privates, for whatever reason, DO NOT WANT TO LEAVE THE ASSOCIATION. They see more value inside the LHSAA than outside of the LHSAA.
I can't tell you what the Privates reasoning is. I don't know. All I can do is point you to a neighboring state, approximately the same size, and say, "that is what dual organizations look like". I can't tell you if it would go well for the Privates, or not, my only opinion is that it wouldn't effect the Publics very much.
Now, here's the thing. I don't care either way. I have no rooting interest either way. I can do what I do every Friday night, different teams every week, and I can almost always find a good game to go to. Would I miss a Zachary vs. Catholic game? Yeah, for about 5 minutes. Would I be thinking about that while I am watching Denham Springs vs. Live Oak? Not for one minute. Entertaining football happens every week, and there in no requirement that it involves a Private school. And that is what I think that the Administrators of the Private schools understand better than the rank and file. East Ascension doesn't care about Catholic. East Ascension cares about St. Amant. East Feliciana doesn't care about Dunham. East Feliciana cares about West Feliciana.
And I don't care if you say that the Publics are trying to stick it to the Privates. You could be (probably are) right. I'm just saying the it is done, and the Privates have decided to accept it.
So, take your name calling and attempt at bullying and shove it you know where. I've got you on mute.
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Post by iamray on Jun 28, 2019 7:08:09 GMT -6
Yea, to piggyback on that, why are the rules different throughout the state? We don't have whatever weird open enrollment you speak of down in your area. Schools like Neville, West Monroe and such have attendance zones they are required to follow. In other words, they cannot legally have kids from all over the parish like what some schools down south do. I suppose this is because of population? I seriously don't know but I find it incredibly convoluted to have different attendance boundary rules for the same types of schools located in separate parts of the state. It can't be more uniform than that? By down south, do you mean Bossier? Because from what I understand, their parish wide magnet program essentially creates an open enrollment situation. And while I understand the point you are trying to make, please recognize that including West Monroe (creators of the 8+ program for hold backs and seems to magically get transfers each year) as an example of a school that is somehow stymied by attendance zones hinders the argument. I just used WM for namesake. I am well aware of what "holdback high" has done. I've even started a thread on it. I didn't know Bossier had that type of situation, either. In Ouachita Parish, each high school is bound to a confined zone. This includes Neville, Wossman, Carroll, Richwood, West Ouachita, Sterlington, so forth and so on. I'm asking for clarification because it seems as if some public schools have different attendance zone rules than others.
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Post by iamray on Jun 28, 2019 7:10:59 GMT -6
Glad y’all mentioned bossier but don’t forget parkway By the way the lhsaa doesn’t determine zones it’s the LEA There does not exist a parish adjacent to Acadia that forces the kids to follow attendance zones I have a hard time believing Neville and West Monroe follow zones like you are saying Bro, I never said Neville or WM are following their zones. I said they are "required to." I'm well aware of what goes on. I just don't understand why some public schools have different attendance zone rules than others? Is it population? I really don't know.
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Post by Rick James on Jun 28, 2019 7:11:22 GMT -6
Yea, to piggyback on that, why are the rules different throughout the state? We don't have whatever weird open enrollment you speak of down in your area. Schools like Neville, West Monroe and such have attendance zones they are required to follow. In other words, they cannot legally have kids from all over the parish like what some schools down south do. I suppose this is because of population? I seriously don't know but I find it incredibly convoluted to have different attendance boundary rules for the same types of schools located in separate parts of the state. It can't be more uniform than that? By down south, do you mean Bossier? Because from what I understand, their parish wide magnet program essentially creates an open enrollment situation. And while I understand the point you are trying to make, please recognize that including West Monroe (creators of the 8+ program for hold backs and seems to magically get transfers each year) as an example of a school that is somehow stymied by attendance zones hinders the argument. Bossier Parish has no magnet program.
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Post by indy on Jun 28, 2019 8:34:20 GMT -6
Hey Ray
Sorry I didn’t get what you were saying
So basically what it boils down to is whatever the local educational authority allows is what the lhsaa has to go with
Basically it’s like how Colorado has legalized pot even though the federal government deems it illegal
This is why I get so frustrated with this nonsense. No consistency whatsoever.
This level playing field doesn’t even exist amongst public schools.
I refuse to accept that we need to find a way to make the split work because of that
We should be working to be together and since enrollment divides schools into groupings that we have some forced play up deal and some multipliers to make as fair to all as possible
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Post by superdome2018 on Jun 28, 2019 10:08:54 GMT -6
Indy, I’ve enjoyed the dialogue with you, but the difference people will never get over is the fact teams like ND draw from 5 parishes. Don’t take that as a shot at ND it is one of the finest programs in the state. It is just one of the facts that makes the playing field unfair, and why the spilt is going nowhere.
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Post by indy on Jun 28, 2019 10:20:59 GMT -6
Indy, I’ve enjoyed the dialogue with you, but the difference people will never get over is the fact teams like ND draw from 5 parishes. Don’t take that as a shot at ND it is one of the finest programs in the state. It is just one of the facts that makes the playing field unfair, and why the spilt is going nowhere. The five parishes you mention in the 75 mile radius don’t have near the population that Karr has in a 10 mile radius. Many can get any student out of 1,100 In Sabine parish school system yet play in 2A. Kinder can get any player in Allen parish or Jeff Davis because their school doesn’t have baseball. The 3 later ones attend free. How are these fair to public schools that don’t have these benefits? And FYI, church Point in Acadia parish has twice as many out of parish students as ND.
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Post by indy on Jun 28, 2019 10:54:12 GMT -6
If Many didn’t win games often would anyone care that they are the only football playing school in the parish? Same thing with ND.
I’m sure you know your situation better than I do. Just like I know ours better than you do. I can tell you that it’s maybe two or three kids that are out of parish at a time and I don’t mean starting on the field I mean period. Just because we can draw from five parishes doesn’t mean we do or it’s common just like you can draw from an entire parish doesn’t mean that’s what happens.
Coaching, work ethic, culture along with community and administrative support allow schools to win
Seriously take a step back and think logically if we were pulling from all five parishes why don’t we have any sign to play college while the local public schools do?
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Post by retired on Jun 28, 2019 11:34:44 GMT -6
By down south, do you mean Bossier? Because from what I understand, their parish wide magnet program essentially creates an open enrollment situation. And while I understand the point you are trying to make, please recognize that including West Monroe (creators of the 8+ program for hold backs and seems to magically get transfers each year) as an example of a school that is somehow stymied by attendance zones hinders the argument. Bossier Parish has no magnet program. Corrected--- Caddo. Not sure why I used Bossier.
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Post by btown on Jun 28, 2019 13:35:02 GMT -6
Would it take a 2/3 vote by the members of LHSAA to undo the split?
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Post by indy on Jun 28, 2019 13:44:04 GMT -6
It depends if the constitution would be changed or not
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Post by superdome2018 on Jun 28, 2019 14:01:25 GMT -6
It Would take a 2/3 vote not going to happen.
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Post by indy on Jun 28, 2019 15:03:40 GMT -6
Of course you don’t want it back together
Would you still feel this way if you were a north desoto fan?
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Post by kennypowers on Jun 28, 2019 15:12:00 GMT -6
Bossier Parish has no magnet program. Corrected--- Caddo. Not sure why I used Bossier. [ Because they are magnets, say in Shreveport, and thrn in bossier they utilize the minority to majority. Ex. Bossier sucks at football, I want to go to Parkway. They are good at football. Great I’ll go to Parkway, not sit a year, and play right away. But those same kids transfer to Evangel or Calvary have to sit a year.
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Post by indy on Jun 28, 2019 15:24:36 GMT -6
Yep
Rig the deck
Push out the competition
Bully the private’s
Have innumerable advantages over private’s point out the zone issue
Still have more rules in your favor
Complain
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Post by retired on Jun 28, 2019 15:50:05 GMT -6
Yep Rig the deck Push out the competition Bully the private’s Have innumerable advantages over private’s point out the zone issue Still have more rules in your favor Complain Indy..i think the problem is that ND might be one of the bigger outliers... with a high quality football program without being a football factory. I believe the result of the forcing ECA and JC down in class was to have smaller private schools particularly in NOLA area start calling those schools out. Pointing out "Hey, you have 300 kids, we have 300 kids. Your OL averages 280. OUr OL averages 195. You have 5 skill kids getting scholarships to Div 1 FBS programs. We have had 1 kid get an FCS offer in the last years. " Unfortunately for you, ND doesn't necessarily fit the ECA/JC model, but gets caught up in the crossfire. The funniest thing I have said about the split is that baseball / volleyball/ soccer should have been the FIRST sports to split. I do think the most appropriate thing would be to eliminate the split, and maybe institute a multiplier for those currently classified as select. Heck one could even add a provision that should a private/select school still enjoy a long run of extreme success that the multiplier would increase.
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Post by indy on Jun 28, 2019 15:55:28 GMT -6
That’s something I would be ok with
I would also like to see a small multiplier for public schools with open enrollment parishes treated the same
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Post by indy on Jun 28, 2019 15:56:29 GMT -6
At first I thought you were pointing out Many have five kids sign last year but It was someone else
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Post by indy on Jun 28, 2019 15:56:51 GMT -6
Yep Rig the deck Push out the competition Bully the private’s Have innumerable advantages over private’s point out the zone issue Still have more rules in your favor Complain Indy..i think the problem is that ND might be one of the bigger outliers... with a high quality football program without being a football factory. I do think the most appropriate thing would be to eliminate the split, and maybe institute a multiplier for those currently classified as select. Heck one could even add a provision that should a private/select school still enjoy a long run of extreme success that the multiplier would increase. Why not put a multiplier on any school with a zone advantage? 10 years ago I might have agreed 100% with you but now a public school with no zone has a bigger advantage than some private schools. Just fact.
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Post by indy on Jun 28, 2019 16:03:59 GMT -6
What I think is amazing is Many doesn’t want any private schools in the bracket. Of course not they sign more kids to scholarships than essentially every other school in their bracket. I know for sure they signed more this year than Kinder has in the six years of the current stupidity. South Plaquemine commented about enrollment and made a lot of sense. My idea multiplier and nd wouldn’t even been in a league with Many. Superdome idea no private’s. I want unification and fairness he wants to continue the status quo and keep telling everyone get use to split it’s not going anywhere. Makes you wonder if he just feels that’s the only way his school can win. I don’t think they need it to win.
The average 2a school has the same chance to beat Manu as those teams back then did of beating Evangel and Curtis. I would be defending Many if they were trying to be kicked out like what it being done to my school. I wish he had some idea what it’s like being on the opposite site of the table.
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Post by chalmetteowl on Jun 28, 2019 18:09:40 GMT -6
Aren’t the “selects” the ones that are trying to get out from under the thumb of the LHSAA? Yes, what's your point? Mine is, you don't want to play us, don't want us in your district. Whine and cry at the district meetings about having to be in the district with us, then man up and make the proposal to get rid of us completely. If it is unfair for us to play you in the playoffs, even more so for you to have to prove yourself in district play. if you play in district you have 9 other games to prove yourself... If you play a great team in district, that's just how it is. A schedule should have all levels of teams on it. Playoffs are different. One loss ends the season so you want more equitable competition.
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Post by chalmetteowl on Jun 28, 2019 18:24:51 GMT -6
Indy..i think the problem is that ND might be one of the bigger outliers... with a high quality football program without being a football factory. I do think the most appropriate thing would be to eliminate the split, and maybe institute a multiplier for those currently classified as select. Heck one could even add a provision that should a private/select school still enjoy a long run of extreme success that the multiplier would increase. Why not put a multiplier on any school with a zone advantage? 10 years ago I might have agreed 100% with you but now a public school with no zone has a bigger advantage than some private schools. Just fact. let's define a public school with no zone. Does it have to be in a parish with other schools? Because a bunch of parishes have just one school so technically they don't have zones, but I don't think rules are being made bc mine goes 6-4 and loses round 1 of the playoffs. How many public schools legally draw from more than 1 parish?
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Post by indy on Jun 28, 2019 18:31:21 GMT -6
Why not put a multiplier on any school with a zone advantage? 10 years ago I might have agreed 100% with you but now a public school with no zone has a bigger advantage than some private schools. Just fact. let's define a public school with no zone. Does it have to be in a parish with other schools? Because a bunch of parishes have just one school so technically they don't have zones, but I don't think rules are being made bc mine goes 6-4 and loses round 1 of the playoffs. How many public schools legally draw from more than 1 parish? Why is the number of parishes an issue? It’s simply geography. 2 or 3 D1 studs on a small school can make a huge difference. 10-12 kids from 5 parishes or 10-12 out of zone, what’s the difference?
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Post by Southplaq on Jun 29, 2019 8:57:53 GMT -6
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Post by Southplaq on Jun 29, 2019 9:07:04 GMT -6
Hey Ray Sorry I didn’t get what you were saying So basically what it boils down to is whatever the local educational authority allows is what the lhsaa has to go with Basically it’s like how Colorado has legalized pot even though the federal government deems it illegal This is why I get so frustrated with this nonsense. No consistency whatsoever. This level playing field doesn’t even exist amongst public schools. I refuse to accept that we need to find a way to make the split work because of that We should be working to be together and since enrollment divides schools into groupings that we have some forced play up deal and some multipliers to make as fair to all as possible "This level playing field doesn’t even exist amongst public schools." One of the realist sentences ever said on this forum! i.e. there is a reason Karr in the dome every year.
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Post by Southplaq on Jun 29, 2019 9:17:16 GMT -6
Here is a question to help me put things in perspective:
It can be argued that Private schools go out an recruit (or has the "right" to go out and recruit) some of the best athletes in their surrounding areas, more so that some of the public schools may do. So, does anyone know the ratio of kids being signed to D1 scholarships in the last 3-5 years (public vs private)? One can assume that if the private schools has this "right" to recruit the best talent, they should have more D1 signees. Is that the case in Louisiana? Since John Curtis has been playing up in the highest classification, I don't think they even come close to the number of D1 signees as most Public schools in Class 5A.
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Post by retired on Jun 29, 2019 10:20:19 GMT -6
Here is a question to help me put things in perspective: It can be argued that Private schools go out an recruit (or has the "right" to go out and recruit) some of the best athletes in their surrounding areas, more so that some of the public schools may do. So, does anyone know the ratio of kids being signed to D1 scholarships in the last 3-5 years (public vs private)? One can assume that if the private schools has this "right" to recruit the best talent, they should have more D1 signees. Is that the case in Louisiana? Since John Curtis has been playing up in the highest classification, I don't think they even come close to the number of D1 signees as most Public schools in Class 5A. I believe that one of the most troublesome factors in this whole debate/discussion/problem etc. is that people (fans and principals alike) paint with a broad brush. John Curtis and Evangel aren't like say De La Salle or Parkview Baptist or St. Charles Catholic or Newman or Catholic N.I. or Notre Dame, which aren't like Pope John Paul or St. Thomas Aquinas etc. Several times in this split discussion I have brought up what I think is one of the prime examples of why some support the split. Mid 1990's Evangel vs St. James and Independence. Very solid programs year in year out that when they get that once a decade or so group can make a real run running into a program that is "a bit different". I think that is the concern. That schools like ND, Catholic N.I. etc will become like ECA in the Mid 1990s.
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Post by chalmetteowl on Jun 29, 2019 15:50:22 GMT -6
Here is a question to help me put things in perspective: It can be argued that Private schools go out an recruit (or has the "right" to go out and recruit) some of the best athletes in their surrounding areas, more so that some of the public schools may do. So, does anyone know the ratio of kids being signed to D1 scholarships in the last 3-5 years (public vs private)? One can assume that if the private schools has this "right" to recruit the best talent, they should have more D1 signees. Is that the case in Louisiana? Since John Curtis has been playing up in the highest classification, I don't think they even come close to the number of D1 signees as most Public schools in Class 5A. I believe that one of the most troublesome factors in this whole debate/discussion/problem etc. is that people (fans and principals alike) paint with a broad brush. John Curtis and Evangel aren't like say De La Salle or Parkview Baptist or St. Charles Catholic or Newman or Catholic N.I. or Notre Dame, which aren't like Pope John Paul or St. Thomas Aquinas etc. Several times in this split discussion I have brought up what I think is one of the prime examples of why some support the split. Mid 1990's Evangel vs St. James and Independence. Very solid programs year in year out that when they get that once a decade or so group can make a real run running into a program that is "a bit different". I think that is the concern. That schools like ND, Catholic N.I. etc will become like ECA in the Mid 1990s. Evangel and Curtis are who they are bc they're consistent. You never see them losing 5 games and losing round 1 in a down year.
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Post by indy on Jun 29, 2019 16:11:36 GMT -6
Here is a question to help me put things in perspective: It can be argued that Private schools go out an recruit (or has the "right" to go out and recruit) some of the best athletes in their surrounding areas, more so that some of the public schools may do. So, does anyone know the ratio of kids being signed to D1 scholarships in the last 3-5 years (public vs private)? One can assume that if the private schools has this "right" to recruit the best talent, they should have more D1 signees. Is that the case in Louisiana? Since John Curtis has been playing up in the highest classification, I don't think they even come close to the number of D1 signees as most Public schools in Class 5A. ND is the smallest football playing high school in Acadia parish we are surrounded by 3A Crowley, 3A iota, 4A Rayne, and 3A Church Point. Year in year out we have the least D1, D2, or D3 talent in the parish. If we recruited and gave scholarships obviously it would be a different story. But what we do have is the best coaching staff by far and they stay. Coach Cook is on his 23rd season and several assistants have been with him the whole time.
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