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Post by swlaprepfan on Aug 4, 2019 14:43:24 GMT -6
Many can turn down any out of zone kid they want. They allow let in those who will play sports. No different than every 1a and 2a public school in Southwest Louisiana. Not every school has the numbers or money to field a football team. It’s as good a reason as any to let someone from a neighboring school in the parish attend your school.
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Post by indy on Aug 4, 2019 14:49:11 GMT -6
Many can turn down any out of zone kid they want. They allow let in those who will play sports. No different than every 1a and 2a public school in Southwest Louisiana. Not every school has the numbers or money to field a football team. It’s as good a reason as any to let someone from a neighboring school in the parish attend your school. Many is doing exactly what they accused the private schools had the ability to do but public schools didn’t. Ironically (and hypocritically) they changed the rule a year after the split.
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Post by retired on Aug 4, 2019 15:00:48 GMT -6
It is all about the concept of classification and a normal distribution of athletes (football players) The idea being that the larger your student body, based on a normal distribution, the larger the pool of athletes from which to build a team. However, situations like Many High will skew the normal distribution because that enrollment is no longer a cross section of a 2A high school population. It is the cross section of a 2A population PLUS anyone else interested in playing football from the pool of athletes made of the other schools. Essentially, a cross section of a 4 or 5A population right? I understand the slight advantage that some schools have from being able to draw from non-football playing schools in the Parish, but nearly every public school under 3A benefits from these scenarios. I am asking how do they manipulate enrollment numbers, as they are being accused of? Are they not allowing people who want to play football to attend? Are they not allowing bad football players from inside the parish to attend? Other than that, I see no way they could be manipulating enrollment numbers to stay in double A. I don't understand your comment about nearly every public school under 3A benefits from such scenarios? Can you elaborate? As far as manipulating the numbers, I wouldn't think of it so much as an conscious action but rather a result of the scenario I described earlier in the thread. It is about normal distribution and school population. Being a destination for anyone who wants to play football skews that distribution. According to Indy's premise, they get the football players from those other districts without the corresponding non football players to raise the enrollment. To put numbers to it (just as a concept, not actual numbers) , assume on average there is 1 football player for every 5 male students (so assuming 50/50 male to female split, 1 player for every 10 students). So it takes say 250 students to get 25 football players. However in this case, they may have a normal student enrollment of 250 (25 football players) plus say another 20 from the other areas. So that gives them 45 players but an enrollment number of 270 as opposed to 450.
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Post by indy on Aug 4, 2019 15:09:31 GMT -6
Not every school 3a on down can but Many yes the son who pushed for the expanded split can
That’s why it’s self serving they have a distinct advantage and pushed out the schools who could beat them
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Post by swlaprepfan on Aug 4, 2019 15:20:50 GMT -6
I understand the slight advantage that some schools have from being able to draw from non-football playing schools in the Parish, but nearly every public school under 3A benefits from these scenarios. I am asking how do they manipulate enrollment numbers, as they are being accused of? Are they not allowing people who want to play football to attend? Are they not allowing bad football players from inside the parish to attend? Other than that, I see no way they could be manipulating enrollment numbers to stay in double A. I don't understand your comment about nearly every public school under 3A benefits from such scenarios? Can you elaborate? As far as manipulating the numbers, I wouldn't think of it so much as an conscious action but rather a result of the scenario I described earlier in the thread. It is about normal distribution and school population. Being a destination for anyone who wants to play football skews that distribution. According to Indy's premise, they get the football players from those other districts without the corresponding non football players to raise the enrollment. To put numbers to it (just as a concept, not actual numbers) , assume on average there is 1 football player for every 5 male students (so assuming 50/50 male to female split, 1 player for every 10 students). So it takes say 250 students to get 25 football players. However in this case, they may have a normal student enrollment of 250 (25 football players) plus say another 20 from the other areas. So that gives them 45 players but an enrollment number of 270 as opposed to 450. [ What I mean is that nearly every 1 and 2A school in our area has the ability and opportunity to allow students non-football schools in the same parish to attend and participate in football. I could give at least a dozen examples from our area alone. Many may benefit more than others, but the rules are the same.
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Post by retired on Aug 4, 2019 15:29:25 GMT -6
I don't understand your comment about nearly every public school under 3A benefits from such scenarios? Can you elaborate? As far as manipulating the numbers, I wouldn't think of it so much as an conscious action but rather a result of the scenario I described earlier in the thread. It is about normal distribution and school population. Being a destination for anyone who wants to play football skews that distribution. According to Indy's premise, they get the football players from those other districts without the corresponding non football players to raise the enrollment. To put numbers to it (just as a concept, not actual numbers) , assume on average there is 1 football player for every 5 male students (so assuming 50/50 male to female split, 1 player for every 10 students). So it takes say 250 students to get 25 football players. However in this case, they may have a normal student enrollment of 250 (25 football players) plus say another 20 from the other areas. So that gives them 45 players but an enrollment number of 270 as opposed to 450. [ What I mean is that nearly every 1 and 2A school in our area has the ability and opportunity to allow students non-football schools in the same parish to attend and participate in football. I could give at least a dozen examples from our area alone. Many may benefit more than others, but the rules are the same. If a bunch of 1A and 2A schools are all in the same area and have football, I don't understand. They are all football playing schools. It might help if you put some names to it for me. Are you saying there at least 12 non football playing schools within the same LEA? As far as the rules being the same, I think that is Indy's point. The scenario he is describing doesn't really sound like a "non select" school does it? Yet Many's principal is said to have been one of the driving forces behind the split because he believed that private schools had an unfair advantage due to enrollment policy. That is just my frustration over this. The truth is nuanced but we no longer want to discuss nuance. Not in the real world,and especially not in the message board realm. It is just name calling and incomplete sets of facts.
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Post by indy on Aug 4, 2019 15:55:17 GMT -6
Many isn’t playing by the same rules as everyone else not by a long shot
They are the only football playing school in their parish and have access to 4a enrollment and play 2a
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Post by indy on Aug 4, 2019 15:56:08 GMT -6
Retired I agree it’s a complicated issue and it has more layers than an onion
I’m sure we can both agree what we have doesn’t resemble a good solution
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Post by retired on Aug 4, 2019 16:04:52 GMT -6
Retired I agree it’s a complicated issue and it has more layers than an onion I’m sure we can both agree what we have doesn’t resemble a good solution Nope Neither does Bonine to be honest.
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Post by indy on Aug 4, 2019 16:15:25 GMT -6
The executive committee has all the real power
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Post by swlaprepfan on Aug 4, 2019 16:56:01 GMT -6
[ What I mean is that nearly every 1 and 2A school in our area has the ability and opportunity to allow students non-football schools in the same parish to attend and participate in football. I could give at least a dozen examples from our area alone. Many may benefit more than others, but the rules are the same. If a bunch of 1A and 2A schools are all in the same area and have football, I don't understand. They are all football playing schools. It might help if you put some names to it for me. Are you saying there at least 12 non football playing schools within the same LEA? As far as the rules being the same, I think that is Indy's point. The scenario he is describing doesn't really sound like a "non select" school does it? Yet Many's principal is said to have been one of the driving forces behind the split because he believed that private schools had an unfair advantage due to enrollment policy. That is just my frustration over this. The truth is nuanced but we no longer want to discuss nuance. Not in the real world,and especially not in the message board realm. It is just name calling and incomplete sets of facts. Are you asking for names of schools that are able to allow football players from neighboring, in parish, non-football schools?
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Post by retired on Aug 4, 2019 17:04:46 GMT -6
If a bunch of 1A and 2A schools are all in the same area and have football, I don't understand. They are all football playing schools. It might help if you put some names to it for me. Are you saying there at least 12 non football playing schools within the same LEA? As far as the rules being the same, I think that is Indy's point. The scenario he is describing doesn't really sound like a "non select" school does it? Yet Many's principal is said to have been one of the driving forces behind the split because he believed that private schools had an unfair advantage due to enrollment policy. That is just my frustration over this. The truth is nuanced but we no longer want to discuss nuance. Not in the real world,and especially not in the message board realm. It is just name calling and incomplete sets of facts. Are you asking for names of schools that are able to allow football players from neighboring, in parish, non-football schools? I guess. Not familiar with the geography out there. I was a bit confused though because what Indy is describing is one school, with as he puts the opportunity to draw from over 1000 kids to play football but play against other schools with enrollments of 200. You are mentioned a bunch of 1A and 2A schools that play football having the opportunity to draw from 12 other non football playing schools? It really is just a numbers thing
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Post by swlaprepfan on Aug 4, 2019 17:17:07 GMT -6
Are you asking for names of schools that are able to allow football players from neighboring, in parish, non-football schools? I guess. Not familiar with the geography out there. I was a bit confused though because what Indy is describing is one school, with as he puts the opportunity to draw from over 1000 kids to play football but play against other schools with enrollments of 200. You are mentioned a bunch of 1A and 2A schools that play football having the opportunity to draw from 12 other non football playing schools? It really is just a numbers thing No, I meant I can give at least 12 examples of schools that draw football players from other non-football playing schools. I don’t know of any public school that draws from 12 other schools...never intended to imply that.
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Post by indy on Aug 4, 2019 17:34:06 GMT -6
Before the split this conversation couldn’t exist. It would end with public schools have strict zones that have to be followed. Private schools can get kids outside their zones and from multiple parishes. It’s just not fair! Now in a relatively short time look what we have. Open boarders for all with a free ride for public schools and higher tuition for private schools. Where lies the advantage now?
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Post by swlaprepfan on Aug 4, 2019 17:39:53 GMT -6
Before the split this conversation couldn’t exist. It would end with public schools have strict zones that have to be followed. Private schools can get kids outside their zones and from multiple parishes. It’s just not fair! Now in a relatively short time look what we have. Open boarders for all with a free ride for public schools and higher tuition for private schools. Where lies the advantage now? Open boarders? That’s a rather minimalist take. I’ve never heard a soul advocate open boarders.
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Post by indy on Aug 4, 2019 17:46:42 GMT -6
Before the split this conversation couldn’t exist. It would end with public schools have strict zones that have to be followed. Private schools can get kids outside their zones and from multiple parishes. It’s just not fair! Now in a relatively short time look what we have. Open boarders for all with a free ride for public schools and higher tuition for private schools. Where lies the advantage now? Open boarders? That’s a rather minimalist take. I’ve never heard a soul advocate open boarders. Does unenforced zones sound better? Whether it’s advocated or not doesn’t matter, it’s a simple fact
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Post by swlaprepfan on Aug 4, 2019 17:47:49 GMT -6
Open boarders? That’s a rather minimalist take. I’ve never heard a soul advocate open boarders. Does unenforced zones sound better? Whether it’s advocated or not doesn’t matter, it’s a simple fact A couple of examples of unenforced zones does not equal open borders.
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Post by indy on Aug 4, 2019 18:02:34 GMT -6
Does unenforced zones sound better? Whether it’s advocated or not doesn’t matter, it’s a simple fact A couple of examples of unenforced zones does not equal open borders. Lol, a couple? It would harder if not impossible to find a zone that is enforced. Geez
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Post by swlaprepfan on Aug 4, 2019 18:03:44 GMT -6
A couple of examples of unenforced zones does not equal open borders. Lol, a couple? It would harder if not impossible to find a zone that is enforced. Geez Overstated accusations like that is exactly what got us to this point.
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Post by indy on Aug 4, 2019 18:08:38 GMT -6
Open enrollment parish
Orleans, rapides, Cameron & Ouachita - no zone exist at all
Lafayette Parish has the academy’s so pick what you want
Acadia parish and Vermilion parish if the principal accepts you go where you want
Jeff Davis - Jennings and welsh both have some of each other’s kids
St. Martin Parish - Cecilia and Breaux Bridge have each other’s players
Iberia - pick what you want jeanerrette loses kids to Loreauville and NISH Westgate loses kids to Loreauville NISH loses kids to Loreauville
St. Landry Parish - M&M allows a lot of options if you don’t like that you’ve got a 95% of being ok out of zone where you want.
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Post by swlaprepfan on Aug 4, 2019 18:13:52 GMT -6
Open enrollment parish Orleans, rapides, Cameron & Ouachita - no zone exist at all Lafayette Parish has the academy’s so pick what you want Acadia parish and Vermilion parish if the principal accepts you go where you want Jeff Davis - Jennings and welsh both have some of each other’s kids St. Martin Parish - Cecilia and Breaux Bridge have each other’s players Iberia - pick what you want jeanerrette loses kids to Loreauville and NISH Westgate loses kids to Loreauville NISH loses kids to Loreauville St. Landry Parish - M&M allows a lot of options if you don’t like that you’ve got a 95% of being ok out of zone where you want. Some school have parish wide zones, but zones none the less. What exactly is Newman, John Curtis, Evangel, Loyola, or Dunham’s physical zone?
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Post by swlaprepfan on Aug 4, 2019 18:14:36 GMT -6
Open enrollment parish Orleans, rapides, Cameron & Ouachita - no zone exist at all Lafayette Parish has the academy’s so pick what you want Acadia parish and Vermilion parish if the principal accepts you go where you want Jeff Davis - Jennings and welsh both have some of each other’s kids St. Martin Parish - Cecilia and Breaux Bridge have each other’s players Iberia - pick what you want jeanerrette loses kids to Loreauville and NISH Westgate loses kids to Loreauville NISH loses kids to Loreauville St. Landry Parish - M&M allows a lot of options if you don’t like that you’ve got a 95% of being ok out of zone where you want. Some public schools have parish wide zones, but zones none the less. What exactly is Newman, John Curtis, Evangel, Loyola, or Dunham’s physical zone?
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Post by indy on Aug 4, 2019 18:20:46 GMT -6
That’s also how we got to this mess
Not every kid who wants to go to private schools can
If Curtis could get whoever they want why is Karr signing more kids to college than them?
We played Newman this year had good high school players but less talent than Welsh
Amite plays with Hammond transfers
—————- Is your argument really well private schools don’t have zones so public’s shouldn't either?
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Post by swlaprepfan on Aug 4, 2019 18:30:22 GMT -6
That’s also how we got to this mess Not every kid who wants to go to private schools can If Curtis could get whoever they want why is Karr signing more kids to college than them? We played Newman this year had good high school players but less talent than Welsh Amite plays with Hammond transfers —————- Is your argument really well private schools don’t have zones so public’s shouldn't either? That is not my argument at all. I was only pointing out that the “advantage” many has over other 2A school really isn’t as big as you make it AND that you’re definition of manipulating enrollment numbers to remain in 2A isn’t exactly a fair assessment. I would never oversimplify the split to a simple zone discussion.
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Post by indy on Aug 4, 2019 18:33:28 GMT -6
That’s also how we got to this mess Not every kid who wants to go to private schools can If Curtis could get whoever they want why is Karr signing more kids to college than them? We played Newman this year had good high school players but less talent than Welsh Amite plays with Hammond transfers —————- Is your argument really well private schools don’t have zones so public’s shouldn't either? That is not my argument at all. I was only pointing out that the “advantage” many has over other 2A school really isn’t as big as you make it AND that you’re definition of manipulating enrollment numbers to remain in 2A isn’t exactly a fair assessment. I would never oversimplify the split to a simple zone discussion. Your is fogging your mind. I never said they manipulate numbers, they can pick and choose from 7 high schools with a total of 1,100 students yet play in 2A
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Post by indy on Aug 4, 2019 18:34:46 GMT -6
So explain to me how Many doesn’t have a huge advantage?
What options exist for a kid who wants to play football in Sabine Parish have?
Now list all the other schools who are 2a that are the only football playing school in the parish
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Post by swlaprepfan on Aug 4, 2019 18:36:14 GMT -6
So explain to me how Many doesn’t have a huge advantage? What options exist for a kid who wants to play football in Sabine Parish have? Now list all the other schools who are 2a that are the only football playing school in the parish Please re-read the opening statement of this entire thread and tell me again how you didn’t accuse them of manipulating enrollment numbers.
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Post by indy on Aug 4, 2019 18:39:13 GMT -6
So explain to me how Many doesn’t have a huge advantage? What options exist for a kid who wants to play football in Sabine Parish have? Now list all the other schools who are 2a that are the only football playing school in the parish Please re-read the opening statement of this entire thread and tell me again how you didn’t accuse them of manipulating enrollment numbers. I’ll restate they can manipulate their enrollment if they need to.
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Post by swlaprepfan on Aug 4, 2019 18:41:37 GMT -6
Please re-read the opening statement of this entire thread and tell me again how you didn’t accuse them of manipulating enrollment numbers. I’ll restate they can manipulate their enrollment if they need to. Good.
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Post by retired on Aug 4, 2019 20:03:58 GMT -6
Please re-read the opening statement of this entire thread and tell me again how you didn’t accuse them of manipulating enrollment numbers. I’ll restate they can manipulate their enrollment if they need to. I don't think you are accurately portraying the situation when you say this. You make it sound as if someone is using a tally sheet and monitoring enrollment, drops and adds and taking action to keep the number at a certain point. I don't believe that is the case. However it is accurate (if what you describe as their enrollment procedures is accurate. I don't know, I don't live there) that they seem to be classified as a 2A school with a 4A football pool.
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