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Post by btown on May 24, 2016 15:05:34 GMT -6
It's not really his job to come up with the plan. He just needs to do what the principals tell him to do. He works for them, but he seems to forget that. Not really accurate. The reason an organization such as the LHSAA exists is to provide for the greater good of the organization itself and all the members. If the principals alone were the only authority there would not need to be any organization at all. Now, Btown ( and others) continuing assertion that the LHSAA EC and director have failed may have some merit. As an example, this split thing should never have come up for vote as it is not in the best interest of a significant part of the membership. That said, the issues of competitive imbalance and advantage that may be occurring in spite of adherence to existing rules should have long ago been a priority for a creative solution. Talk to everyone, meet a lot, get unofficial ideas from everyone even if it's just over a cup of coffee, get to work and the EC should have crafted a plan long ago that could have been voted on without vitriol. That is how I think it should work in an ideal world. You represent you, I represent me, and our board or EC takes all that info and synthesizes a plan for all of us. Cannot argue with that. LHSAA past caught up with them. Failure to enforce rules is what caused the support for the split. Bonine failure to lead and the way he handle it made voters dig in deeper. The failure to enforce rules was bad enough, but could have be fixed. What Bonine did will not be fixed. If people want to have any hope of coming back together LHSAA needs to part ways with Bonine and get someone from in state.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2016 17:02:05 GMT -6
Not really accurate. The reason an organization such as the LHSAA exists is to provide for the greater good of the organization itself and all the members. If the principals alone were the only authority there would not need to be any organization at all. Now, Btown ( and others) continuing assertion that the LHSAA EC and director have failed may have some merit. As an example, this split thing should never have come up for vote as it is not in the best interest of a significant part of the membership. That said, the issues of competitive imbalance and advantage that may be occurring in spite of adherence to existing rules should have long ago been a priority for a creative solution. Talk to everyone, meet a lot, get unofficial ideas from everyone even if it's just over a cup of coffee, get to work and the EC should have crafted a plan long ago that could have been voted on without vitriol. That is how I think it should work in an ideal world. You represent you, I represent me, and our board or EC takes all that info and synthesizes a plan for all of us. Cannot argue with that. LHSAA past caught up with them. Failure to enforce rules is what caused the support for the split. Bonine failure to lead and the way he handle it made voters dig in deeper. The failure to enforce rules was bad enough, but could have be fixed. What Bonine did will not be fixed. If people want to have any hope of coming back together LHSAA needs to part ways with Bonine and get someone from in state. Agenda has been sent to the voters.
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Post by eag on May 24, 2016 17:06:23 GMT -6
I'm not sure that it's truly an enforcement issue, although that is part of it. I think the issue as some people see it is that private schools in certain situations, especially in large metropolitan areas, can actually follow all the rules and still end up with an outlier s far as talent. The real issue is that the grumbling about extraordinary success should have been taken more seriously earlier, and I am not talking about during the current administration's tenure. if Tommy Henry and Kenny Henderson had started this ball rolling, we may not be where we are right now.
The trouble is, even with a whole new slate of officials, I do not believe that it is very likely that members will be willing to go back to the drawing board. It is too bad, because that is not with the LHSAA is supposed to be about. Organizations such as this one or supposed to prevent the tyranny of the majority of, rather than just go with it. But they have to prevented by addressing the issues that are causing the unrest. The whole purpose is to solve those issues so as to Address the concerns of the majority in a way that everyone can accept.
It may be too late for that
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Post by btown on May 24, 2016 17:20:43 GMT -6
Cannot argue with that. LHSAA past caught up with them. Failure to enforce rules is what caused the support for the split. Bonine failure to lead and the way he handle it made voters dig in deeper. The failure to enforce rules was bad enough, but could have be fixed. What Bonine did will not be fixed. If people want to have any hope of coming back together LHSAA needs to part ways with Bonine and get someone from in state. Agenda has been sent to the voters. Was talking about meeting at the first of the year.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2016 17:28:32 GMT -6
Agenda has been sent to the voters. Was talking about meeting at the first of the year. Oh I know what you meant. I was just letting the board know that we got the June 8th agenda sent to us a few hours ago. I Really shouldn't have quoted your post. My bad.
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Post by GUNSLINGER on May 24, 2016 17:33:46 GMT -6
Was talking about meeting at the first of the year. Oh I know what you meant. I was just letting the board know that we got the June 8th agenda sent to us a few hours ago. I Really shouldn't have quoted your post. My bad. Care to enlighten the public as to the agenda items?
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2016 17:44:54 GMT -6
Oh I know what you meant. I was just letting the board know that we got the June 8th agenda sent to us a few hours ago. I Really shouldn't have quoted your post. My bad. Care to enlighten the public as to the agenda items? 1.5 Multiplier 6A with 1.5 Multiplier Keep Split with 4 class/ 3 Division model. Combined B and C. Rural/Metro for 1-3A, 4-5A back together. Or vote them all down and keep what we have.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2016 18:31:27 GMT -6
Care to enlighten the public as to the agenda items? 1.5 Multiplier 6A with 1.5 Multiplier Keep Split with 4 class/ 3 Division model. Combined B and C. Rural/Metro for 1-3A, 4-5A back together. Or vote them all down and keep what we have. lets have the minor league and the pro league. Lol
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2016 18:49:56 GMT -6
1.5 Multiplier 6A with 1.5 Multiplier Keep Split with 4 class/ 3 Division model. Combined B and C. Rural/Metro for 1-3A, 4-5A back together. Or vote them all down and keep what we have. lets have the minor league and the pro league. Lol That's kind of what we have now. Anyone can play up to 5A if they want, or stay in the minors.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2016 20:58:22 GMT -6
Care to enlighten the public as to the agenda items? 1.5 Multiplier 6A with 1.5 Multiplier Keep Split with 4 class/ 3 Division model. Combined B and C. Rural/Metro for 1-3A, 4-5A back together. Or vote them all down and keep what we have. Afraid they are throwing too much out there. I'd like to see the multiplier layout. I think either of those 2 plans would work in january. The publics don't need to have the privates break away. Would someone from the private school side please do something for us? Show us a plan with all private schools breaking away from the association. Divide the publics by 4. I believe u would have around 55 in each class. I think u will have a chance to get something passed. I believe Springfield would be the largest 1a school in the state. If I recall, kinder would be the 2nd largest. There will be an enormous gap in each class.
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Post by indy on May 25, 2016 4:14:40 GMT -6
1.5 Multiplier 6A with 1.5 Multiplier Keep Split with 4 class/ 3 Division model. Combined B and C. Rural/Metro for 1-3A, 4-5A back together. Or vote them all down and keep what we have. Afraid they are throwing too much out there. I'd like to see the multiplier layout. I think either of those 2 plans would work in january. The publics don't need to have the privates break away. Would someone from the private school side please do something for us? Show us a plan with all private schools breaking away from the association. Divide the publics by 4. I believe u would have around 55 in each class. I think u will have a chance to get something passed. I believe Springfield would be the largest 1a school in the state. If I recall, kinder would be the 2nd largest. There will be an enormous gap in each class. Multiplier is good but 1.5 Across the board is ludicrous. So JC in Nola and E in Shreveport get the same multiplier as St Eds in Eunice and Sacred Heart in Ville Platte?
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laprepfb
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Post by laprepfb on May 25, 2016 10:08:49 GMT -6
Agreed. Perhaps a multiplier dealing with what percentage of students actually are from out of zone...and this is also important - do it for ALL schools, not just private.
There are some public schools with a higher percentage of out of zone students than some private schools. Just off the top of my head I'd say Barbe has a much higher percentage than Sacred Heart-Ville Platte does.
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Post by indy on May 25, 2016 10:29:42 GMT -6
Agreed. Perhaps a multiplier dealing with what percentage of students actually are from out of zone...and this is also important - do it for ALL schools, not just private. There are some public schools with a higher percentage of out of zone students than some private schools. Just off the top of my head I'd say Barbe has a much higher percentage than Sacred Heart-Ville Platte does. In acadia parish church point has more out of zone and out of parish students than Notre Dame. A year after the split their principal submitted a proposal to let out of parish students eligible as freshman. It's self centered Hippocrates like this we are being lead by
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Post by btown on May 25, 2016 10:41:01 GMT -6
Agreed. Perhaps a multiplier dealing with what percentage of students actually are from out of zone...and this is also important - do it for ALL schools, not just private. There are some public schools with a higher percentage of out of zone students than some private schools. Just off the top of my head I'd say Barbe has a much higher percentage than Sacred Heart-Ville Platte does. In acadia parish church point has more out of zone and out of parish students than Notre Dame. A year after the split their principal submitted a proposal to let out of parish students eligible as freshman. It's self centered Hippocrates like this we are being lead by Not trying to argue the point about out of parish kids, but I do know that some parishes have agreements with the neighboring parish for out of parish kids. Take Basile it is Evangeline parish but is on the bounder of Acadia parish. Parents that live in Acadia parish, on the parish line can send their kids to Basile or Iota. I think that they have to commit to one of those schools their 8th grade year. I even think some of Acadia Parish tax dollars go to Basile's schools. So what do you do in those situations?
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Post by indy on May 25, 2016 10:52:10 GMT -6
In acadia parish church point has more out of zone and out of parish students than Notre Dame. A year after the split their principal submitted a proposal to let out of parish students eligible as freshman. It's self centered Hippocrates like this we are being lead by Not trying to argue the point about out of parish kids, but I do know that some parishes have agreements with the neighboring parish for out of parish kids. Take Basile it is Evangeline parish but is on the bounder of Acadia parish. Parents that live in Acadia parish, on the parish line can send their kids to Basile or Iota. I think that they have to commit to one of those schools their 8th grade year. I even think some of Acadia Parish tax dollars go to Basile's schools. So what do you do in those situations? Truth is I think that is absolutely ok. Parents should be able to choose. But don't whine and call foul when 4-5 kids a year come to ND from OLI in Jeff Davis parish. I would like to think those parents have a right to choose also.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on May 25, 2016 10:53:53 GMT -6
In acadia parish church point has more out of zone and out of parish students than Notre Dame. A year after the split their principal submitted a proposal to let out of parish students eligible as freshman. It's self centered Hippocrates like this we are being lead by Not trying to argue the point about out of parish kids, but I do know that some parishes have agreements with the neighboring parish for out of parish kids. Take Basile it is Evangeline parish but is on the bounder of Acadia parish. Parents that live in Acadia parish, on the parish line can send their kids to Basile or Iota. I think that they have to commit to one of those schools their 8th grade year. I even think some of Acadia Parish tax dollars go to Basile's schools. So what do you do in those situations? I would think they would need to be in the "select" school brackets. I think Bob has said that is one of the reasons private schools are "select" is because they can get students from out of Parish/Zones.
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Post by btown on May 25, 2016 10:59:40 GMT -6
Not trying to argue the point about out of parish kids, but I do know that some parishes have agreements with the neighboring parish for out of parish kids. Take Basile it is Evangeline parish but is on the bounder of Acadia parish. Parents that live in Acadia parish, on the parish line can send their kids to Basile or Iota. I think that they have to commit to one of those schools their 8th grade year. I even think some of Acadia Parish tax dollars go to Basile's schools. So what do you do in those situations? I would think they would need to be in the "select" school brackets. I think Bob has said that is one of the reasons private schools are "select" is because they can get students from out of Parish/Zones. Put the school does have a zone set which is agreed on by both Parishes.
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Post by iknownuthing on May 25, 2016 11:06:09 GMT -6
I would think they would need to be in the "select" school brackets. I think Bob has said that is one of the reasons private schools are "select" is because they can get students from out of Parish/Zones. Put the school does have a zone set which is agreed on by both Parishes. Just like EVERY private school in the state. There a an attendance zone and approved feeder system agreed upon by the rules of the LHSAA. Yet for private schools this is not good enough.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on May 25, 2016 11:08:45 GMT -6
I would think they would need to be in the "select" school brackets. I think Bob has said that is one of the reasons private schools are "select" is because they can get students from out of Parish/Zones. Put the school does have a zone set which is agreed on by both Parishes. I agree that: parents should choose where their kids attend school, that if agreed upon (btw Parishes) that is ok also. I also think this is the agreement that the Catholic Schools in each Diocese has in place for students in elementary schools to go to High School in that Diocese, even if across Parish Lines. I was just showing that if it's good for the goose it's good for the gander.
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Post by btown on May 25, 2016 11:15:27 GMT -6
Put the school does have a zone set which is agreed on by both Parishes. I agree that: parents should choose where their kids attend school, that if agreed upon (btw Parishes) that is ok also. I also think this is the agreement that the Catholic Schools in each Diocese has in place for students in elementary schools to go to High School in that Diocese, even if across Parish Lines. I was just showing that if it's good for the goose it's good for the gander. No reason to argue points we will never agree on this issue. You see it one way and I see it another. Not worth you or my time to argue.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on May 25, 2016 11:31:18 GMT -6
I agree that: parents should choose where their kids attend school, that if agreed upon (btw Parishes) that is ok also. I also think this is the agreement that the Catholic Schools in each Diocese has in place for students in elementary schools to go to High School in that Diocese, even if across Parish Lines. I was just showing that if it's good for the goose it's good for the gander. No reason to argue points we will never agree on this issue. You see it one way and I see it another. Not worth you or my time to argue. btown you asked the question: So what do you do in those situations? I tried to answer your question with the answer a lot of "Split Supporters" have given. Then what do you do when 4-5 kids a year come to ND from OLI in Jeff Davis parish. I would like to think those parents have a right to choose also. Or when 4-5 kids from Avoyelles Parish Catholic Schools choose to go to Menard. This is one of the reasons for the "Split" if this can't be worked out where it is beneficial to the kids/parents then why have a meeting, vote on other plans, or not just "Split" the entire association.
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Post by btown on May 25, 2016 11:41:17 GMT -6
No reason to argue points we will never agree on this issue. You see it one way and I see it another. Not worth you or my time to argue. btown you asked the question: So what do you do in those situations? I tried to answer your question with the answer a lot of "Split Supporters" have given. Then what do you do when 4-5 kids a year come to ND from OLI in Jeff Davis parish. I would like to think those parents have a right to choose also. Or when 4-5 kids from Avoyelles Parish Catholic Schools choose to go to Menard. This is one of the reasons for the "Split" if this can't be worked out where it is beneficial to the kids/parents then why have a meeting, vote on other plans, or not just "Split" the entire association. There is a big differenc in 4-5 kids that travel from about 5 miles over the parish line to Basile, which is agreed on by both parishes, bounderies set and tax dollars used to support the school from the other parish. To private school that has 5 middle schools attached to them. I see a big difference, that is why I say there is no reason to argue, we see it different.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on May 25, 2016 11:55:36 GMT -6
btown you asked the question: So what do you do in those situations? I tried to answer your question with the answer a lot of "Split Supporters" have given. Then what do you do when 4-5 kids a year come to ND from OLI in Jeff Davis parish. I would like to think those parents have a right to choose also. Or when 4-5 kids from Avoyelles Parish Catholic Schools choose to go to Menard. This is one of the reasons for the "Split" if this can't be worked out where it is beneficial to the kids/parents then why have a meeting, vote on other plans, or not just "Split" the entire association. There is a big differenc in 4-5 kids that travel from about 5 miles over the parish line to Basile, which is agreed on by both parishes, bounderies set and tax dollars used to support the school from the other parish. To private school that has 5 middle schools attached to them. I see a big difference, that is why I say there is no reason to argue, we see it different. I've seen this answer before from someone else: if a school gets 80 kids from 1 or gets 80 kids from 5 small schools what is the difference. The Catholic Diocese does the same thing with the schools in the Diocese as what you are saying about the public schools, except the tax dollars used to support the school. With the Catholic School the parents of the students are the ones supporting the school, as well as the public schools with their tax dollars.
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Post by btown on May 25, 2016 14:35:42 GMT -6
There is a big differenc in 4-5 kids that travel from about 5 miles over the parish line to Basile, which is agreed on by both parishes, bounderies set and tax dollars used to support the school from the other parish. To private school that has 5 middle schools attached to them. I see a big difference, that is why I say there is no reason to argue, we see it different. I've seen this answer before from someone else: if a school gets 80 kids from 1 or gets 80 kids from 5 small schools what is the difference. The Catholic Diocese does the same thing with the schools in the Diocese as what you are saying about the public schools, except the tax dollars used to support the school. With the Catholic School the parents of the students are the ones supporting the school, as well as the public schools with their tax dollars. If I spread 5 middle schools out over a large area and are able to pick the best, and yes I said the best from each, then that is a big advantage. I cannot see any private high school allowing top student athletes to leave the middle and not go to their private school. Middle schools stretching from Iota to Church Point is a big area.
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Post by btown on May 25, 2016 14:38:12 GMT -6
There is a big differenc in 4-5 kids that travel from about 5 miles over the parish line to Basile, which is agreed on by both parishes, bounderies set and tax dollars used to support the school from the other parish. To private school that has 5 middle schools attached to them. I see a big difference, that is why I say there is no reason to argue, we see it different. I've seen this answer before from someone else: if a school gets 80 kids from 1 or gets 80 kids from 5 small schools what is the difference. The Catholic Diocese does the same thing with the schools in the Diocese as what you are saying about the public schools, except the tax dollars used to support the school. With the Catholic School the parents of the students are the ones supporting the school, as well as the public schools with their tax dollars. Again that is why I say there is no need to argue this point. You will never see it from my point of view and I will NEVER see this issue from your point of view. I have my opinion and there is nothing that you can say to change my mind.
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Post by gentsandpios on May 25, 2016 14:47:51 GMT -6
I've seen this answer before from someone else: if a school gets 80 kids from 1 or gets 80 kids from 5 small schools what is the difference. The Catholic Diocese does the same thing with the schools in the Diocese as what you are saying about the public schools, except the tax dollars used to support the school. With the Catholic School the parents of the students are the ones supporting the school, as well as the public schools with their tax dollars. If I spread 5 middle schools out over a large area and are able to pick the best, and yes I said the best from each, then that is a big advantage. I cannot see any private high school allowing top student athletes to leave the middle and not go to their private school. Middle schools stretching from Iota to Church Point is a big area. Not to get in the middle of your interesting conversation, and I'm being sincere since y'all are having a reasonable difference of perception, but several kids from Redemptorist went to Crowley High and started in multiple sports with a couple receiving athletic scholarships. No one from Notre Dame tried to convince them to stay in the Catholic feeder system. To be honest ND has enough athletes between St Michaels and Rayne Catholic that they don't need to try and pick the best to attend there.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on May 25, 2016 15:07:31 GMT -6
I've seen this answer before from someone else: if a school gets 80 kids from 1 or gets 80 kids from 5 small schools what is the difference. The Catholic Diocese does the same thing with the schools in the Diocese as what you are saying about the public schools, except the tax dollars used to support the school. With the Catholic School the parents of the students are the ones supporting the school, as well as the public schools with their tax dollars. Again that is why I say there is no need to argue this point. You will never see it from my point of view and I will NEVER see this issue from your point of view. I have my opinion and there is nothing that you can say to change my mind. Just one more question for you and then I'll drop it. I'm going to use Menard as an example of a "select school" yes it has 4 elementary schools (Catholic Schools) that feed into 1 Jr. High (7th & 8th grade). 8th grade has 100 students (boys & girls) roughly 65-80 normally come over to the high school. Would you consider this an advantage over other 2A schools or any school? or Would you say that they (Menard) isn't doing a good job of "recruiting" the best to go to the school? The reason for the 2nd part is I know that a lot of "Non Select/Split Supporters" think that every "Select" school recruits, but if you look at the last 10 years of Menard Football you will see that doesn't happen. Menard has had more "down" years than Many for sure in the last decade, before and after the Split.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on May 25, 2016 15:24:47 GMT -6
If I spread 5 middle schools out over a large area and are able to pick the best, and yes I said the best from each, then that is a big advantage. I cannot see any private high school allowing top student athletes to leave the middle and not go to their private school. Middle schools stretching from Iota to Church Point is a big area. Not to get in the middle of your interesting conversation, and I'm being sincere since y'all are having a reasonable difference of perception, but several kids from Redemptorist went to Crowley High and started in multiple sports with a couple receiving athletic scholarships. No one from Notre Dame tried to convince them to stay in the Catholic feeder system. To be honest ND has enough athletes between St Michaels and Rayne Catholic that they don't need to try and pick the best to attend there. I am beginning to believe that all the "split supporters" feel this way. Btown was one the few that I wasn't expecting.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2016 15:28:04 GMT -6
That's one of the points he is making. Pull up the population of Rayne and Crowley. I don't need to mention the other towns where kids come from. I'm not a rural/metro supporter. Clearly, there is a huge difference! Previously, someone tried to compare Notre Dame to Calvary in Shreveport. At least there are multiple private schools in Shreveport, Lafayette, Baton Rouge, and New Orleans to spread it out. Compare that to towns like Welsh, Many, Kinder, Vinton, Dequincy, Oakdale, and Lake Arthur. That's what public schools perceive as the big difference. Let's say a Private school were to open in Oberlin, you'd get kids from Oberlin 1a, Kinder 2a, and Oakdale 2a. Rayne is a 4a, Crowley is a 4a, Church Point is 3a, and Iota is 3a. Privates will never see it the same as publics and vice versa. Notre Dame is a top notch school, and have never done anything illegal. No one accuses them of it either. However, their situation is unique in comparison to the towns I just named. Would Notre Dame be as successful if the Lafayette Diocese opened a school in Rayne? I certainly didn't want to offend anyone or start an argument. Just trying to shed light from the public school side.
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Post by gentsandpios on May 25, 2016 15:35:29 GMT -6
That's one of the points he is making. Pull up the population of Rayne and Crowley. I don't need to mention the other towns where kids come from. I'm not a rural/metro supporter. Clearly, there is a huge difference! Previously, someone tried to compare Notre Dame to Calvary in Shreveport. At least there are multiple private schools in Shreveport, Lafayette, Baton Rouge, and New Orleans to spread it out. Compare that to towns like Welsh, Many, Kinder, Vinton, Dequincy, Oakdale, and Lake Arthur. That's what public schools perceive as the big difference. Let's say a Private school were to open in Oberlin, you'd get kids from Oberlin 1a, Kinder 2a, and Oakdale 2a. Rayne is a 4a, Crowley is a 4a, Church Point is 3a, and Iota is 3a. Privates will never see it the same as publics and vice versa. Notre Dame is a top notch school, and have never done anything illegal. No one accuses them of it either. However, their situation is unique in comparison to the towns I just named. Would Notre Dame be as successful if the Lafayette Diocese opened a school in Rayne? I certainly didn't want to offend anyone or start an argument. Just trying to shed light from the public school side. I understand the question. There were Catholic high schools in Crowley, Rayne, Iota and I believe Church Point. They were closed in 1968 and Consolidated into ND in same fashion as public schools do when they form Parish high schools by closing multiple smaller high schools. If all those schools were still open they would be 1A if they offered football same as St. Eds
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