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Apr 18, 2019 8:06:05 GMT -6
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Post by indy on Apr 18, 2019 8:06:05 GMT -6
So why you even care which side Karr plays on? There are plenty of schools you could have mentioned other than Karr. It Makes you look like a queen. Southplaq said Karr being nonselect is a joke and I agreed with him. I didn't bring them up. Stop trying to BE right and try to GET it right. This makes you look like a sanctimonious, private school try-hard. Furthermore, Karr is an outlier. And, if I recall correctly, the LHSAA attempted to originally label them select but Karr's principal threw a fit and the LHSAA buckled. "Select" schools include "all non-public, charter, university lab and magnet schools" as well as "any dual-curriculum schools that include at least 25 percent of their enrollment as select admission students who do not live in the designated attendance zone." - This is EXACTLY why Karr SHOULD be select. If they were 5-5 every year it wouldn’t be an issue. You obviously have
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Post by iamray on Apr 18, 2019 8:18:42 GMT -6
Ewwww, blue letters! You're obviously a genius. Yet, you cant seem to grasp the concept of having the ability to control enrollment, no matter if used or not, is an advantage. Pity. You discovered the blue button, yet still cant grasp that concept. Oh well, you cant have it all! That's the most ridiculous thing you've said yet. You say private schools have an inherent advantage, but can't name a single one that uses it. And because they have it they should be discriminated against and ostracized.
Do you also believe that someone who legally owns a gun should be put in prison because he has the ability to kill someone even though he's never committed a crime in his life? Because that's what you're saying about private schools and their so-called advantage. Even if they don't use it they need to be punished.
I understand your frustration though. You lash out at me because you have no substantive argument to refute anything I've said. Just keep restating your original premise with nothing to back it up. That'll work.
You don't think private schools have an advantage over public schools? I believe they do for two reasons: - Private schools have more flexibility with their money. It is almost an act of congress to try and order anything at a public school. Of course, it can be done but the paperwork required is preposterous. - Private schools do not have zones or boundaries. I think this is the biggest hang up for most people. Obviously the ability to get students from anywhere in a particular region is an advantage over schools who can not do so under the letter of the law. I'm sure public do this as well, but it is against the rules for them to do so whereas a private club can do so with free reign.
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Post by iamray on Apr 18, 2019 8:23:24 GMT -6
Southplaq said Karr being nonselect is a joke and I agreed with him. I didn't bring them up. Stop trying to BE right and try to GET it right. This makes you look like a sanctimonious, private school try-hard. Furthermore, Karr is an outlier. And, if I recall correctly, the LHSAA attempted to originally label them select but Karr's principal threw a fit and the LHSAA buckled. "Select" schools include "all non-public, charter, university lab and magnet schools" as well as "any dual-curriculum schools that include at least 25 percent of their enrollment as select admission students who do not live in the designated attendance zone." - This is EXACTLY why Karr SHOULD be select. If they were 5-5 every year it wouldn’t be an issue. You obviously have Don't know what is and don't care. The fact is, Karr meets the criteria to be select as defined by the letter of the law and is allowed to operate outside of those boundaries.
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Post by blake2448 on Apr 18, 2019 8:28:10 GMT -6
So does Karr take children from outside their parish? Admissions Process Edna Karr is an open enrollment public charter school whose admission policy is governed by the Recovery School District’s OneApp guidelines. Edna Karr strictly adheres to these policies and procedures. Information regarding the process and the timelines may be accessed at www.enrollnola.org. Once placement is made through OneApp, please note that the following steps must be taken to complete enrollment: 1. A seat claim form along with the documents must be presented at the school (due in late Spring 2019): Birth Certificate Social Security Card (optional) Parent/Guardian photo ID Updated immunization records Final report card/transcript of all earned high school credits earned Spring standardized testing results 3 proofs of residency in Orleans Parish How is Edna Karr any different than any other parish with an open enrollment plan?
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Apr 18, 2019 8:37:51 GMT -6
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Post by indy on Apr 18, 2019 8:37:51 GMT -6
If they were 5-5 every year it wouldn’t be an issue. You obviously have Don't know what is and don't care. The fact is, Karr meets the criteria to be select as defined by the letter of the law and is allowed to operate outside of those boundaries. “Letter of the law” seriously? We are talking about a self serving, hypocritical, group of s that make up rules on the go in pencil. They even make up terms such as “not select” which they are still trying to define. ( mentality syndrome) is clearly clogging your mind.
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Post by iamray on Apr 18, 2019 9:28:54 GMT -6
So does Karr take children from outside their parish? Admissions Process Edna Karr is an open enrollment public charter school whose admission policy is governed by the Recovery School District’s OneApp guidelines. Edna Karr strictly adheres to these policies and procedures. Information regarding the process and the timelines may be accessed at www.enrollnola.org. Once placement is made through OneApp, please note that the following steps must be taken to complete enrollment: 1. A seat claim form along with the documents must be presented at the school (due in late Spring 2019): Birth Certificate Social Security Card (optional) Parent/Guardian photo ID Updated immunization records Final report card/transcript of all earned high school credits earned Spring standardized testing results 3 proofs of residency in Orleans Parish How is Edna Karr any different than any other parish with an open enrollment plan? The open enrollment plan is one of the issues. Public schools have zones, but none have a zone of 393,000 people like Karr and the rest of Orleans Parish. They are allowed to accept students from the entire parish. This is not the case with most public schools. In our area, public school zones are far more defined. Neville, Carroll, Wossman, Richwood, etc...do not have all of Ouachita parish to use as a zone. Each school gets a piece of the immediate area surrounding the school. Karr gets all of Orleans Parish.
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Post by iamray on Apr 18, 2019 9:30:52 GMT -6
Don't know what is and don't care. The fact is, Karr meets the criteria to be select as defined by the letter of the law and is allowed to operate outside of those boundaries. “Letter of the law” seriously? We are talking about a self serving, hypocritical, group of s that make up rules on the go in pencil. They even make up terms such as “not select” which they are still trying to define. ( mentality syndrome) is clearly clogging your mind. Yea, and public school envy (PSE) is distorting your view.
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Post by blake2448 on Apr 18, 2019 9:43:52 GMT -6
So does Karr take children from outside their parish? Admissions Process Edna Karr is an open enrollment public charter school whose admission policy is governed by the Recovery School District’s OneApp guidelines. Edna Karr strictly adheres to these policies and procedures. Information regarding the process and the timelines may be accessed at www.enrollnola.org. Once placement is made through OneApp, please note that the following steps must be taken to complete enrollment: 1. A seat claim form along with the documents must be presented at the school (due in late Spring 2019): Birth Certificate Social Security Card (optional) Parent/Guardian photo ID Updated immunization records Final report card/transcript of all earned high school credits earned Spring standardized testing results 3 proofs of residency in Orleans Parish How is Edna Karr any different than any other parish with an open enrollment plan? The open enrollment plan is one of the issues. Public schools have zones, but none have a zone of 393,000 people like Karr and the rest of Orleans Parish. They are allowed to accept students from the entire parish. This is not the case with most public schools. In our area, public school zones are far more defined. Neville, Carroll, Wossman, Richwood, etc...do not have all of Ouachita parish to use as a zone. Each school gets a piece of the immediate area surrounding the school. Karr gets all of Orleans Parish. Rapides is open enrollment too. Most Parishes are open enrollment now i thought? I guess my thought is it isn't Karr's fault they operate in one of the largest parishes by population. If Orleans is open enrollment, then by the rule they are a non select school right? If Ouachita Parish were open enrollment don't you think there would be a mass migration of Athletes to West Monroe?
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Apr 18, 2019 10:25:11 GMT -6
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Post by indy on Apr 18, 2019 10:25:11 GMT -6
The open enrollment plan is one of the issues. Public schools have zones, but none have a zone of 393,000 people like Karr and the rest of Orleans Parish. They are allowed to accept students from the entire parish. This is not the case with most public schools. In our area, public school zones are far more defined. Neville, Carroll, Wossman, Richwood, etc...do not have all of Ouachita parish to use as a zone. Each school gets a piece of the immediate area surrounding the school. Karr gets all of Orleans Parish. Rapides is open enrollment too. Most Parishes are open enrollment now i thought? I guess my thought is it isn't Karr's fault they operate in one of the largest parishes by population. If Orleans is open enrollment, then by the rule they are a non select school right? If Ouachita Parish were open enrollment don't you think there would be a mass migration of Athletes to West Monroe? Acadia Parish has open enrollment. Church Point has far more out of Parish students than ND. There is theory and there is reality.
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Post by blake2448 on Apr 18, 2019 10:38:06 GMT -6
To me, honestly kids coming in from out of parish to an open enrollment parish should only be allowed when that student is a child of a parish school employee. I think that if a school takes children from outside their parish into their system, once they meet whatever the select % is, then they too should be classified as select, because those are children from outside their attendance zone. I have always been an opponent of a parish allowing children who are not domiciled in the parish to attend school there.
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Post by iamray on Apr 18, 2019 10:58:19 GMT -6
The open enrollment plan is one of the issues. Public schools have zones, but none have a zone of 393,000 people like Karr and the rest of Orleans Parish. They are allowed to accept students from the entire parish. This is not the case with most public schools. In our area, public school zones are far more defined. Neville, Carroll, Wossman, Richwood, etc...do not have all of Ouachita parish to use as a zone. Each school gets a piece of the immediate area surrounding the school. Karr gets all of Orleans Parish. Rapides is open enrollment too. Most Parishes are open enrollment now i thought? I guess my thought is it isn't Karr's fault they operate in one of the largest parishes by population. If Orleans is open enrollment, then by the rule they are a non select school right? If Ouachita Parish were open enrollment don't you think there would be a mass migration of Athletes to West Monroe? In 2016, the open enrollment within parishes was ditched in favor of traditional attendance zones. Magnet schools who had at least 25% of their students from outside of those traditional attendance zones were to be deemed select. Karr was labeled as such by the LHSAA because the traditional zone was much smaller obviously than all of Orleans Parish. Karr and Jesuit administration vehemently objected. Soon after, their charter was "magically" reevaluated and the LHSAA changed their original designation from select to nonselect. I don't believe most parishes are open enrollment, either.
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Apr 18, 2019 11:34:30 GMT -6
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Post by indy on Apr 18, 2019 11:34:30 GMT -6
Rapides is open enrollment too. Most Parishes are open enrollment now i thought? I guess my thought is it isn't Karr's fault they operate in one of the largest parishes by population. If Orleans is open enrollment, then by the rule they are a non select school right? If Ouachita Parish were open enrollment don't you think there would be a mass migration of Athletes to West Monroe? In 2016, the open enrollment within parishes was ditched in favor of traditional attendance zones. Magnet schools who had at least 25% of their students from outside of those traditional attendance zones were to be deemed select. Karr was labeled as such by the LHSAA because the traditional zone was much smaller obviously than all of Orleans Parish. Karr and Jesuit administration vehemently objected. Soon after, their charter was "magically" reevaluated and the LHSAA changed their original designation from select to nonselect. I don't believe most parishes are open enrollment, either. “Ditched”? Apparently the principals forgot to send out a memo. . Or maybe it “magically” disappeared., lol
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Apr 18, 2019 14:34:31 GMT -6
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Post by warpig on Apr 18, 2019 14:34:31 GMT -6
So does Karr take children from outside their parish? Admissions Process Edna Karr is an open enrollment public charter school whose admission policy is governed by the Recovery School District’s OneApp guidelines. Edna Karr strictly adheres to these policies and procedures. Information regarding the process and the timelines may be accessed at www.enrollnola.org. Once placement is made through OneApp, please note that the following steps must be taken to complete enrollment: 1. A seat claim form along with the documents must be presented at the school (due in late Spring 2019): Birth Certificate Social Security Card (optional) Parent/Guardian photo ID Updated immunization records Final report card/transcript of all earned high school credits earned Spring standardized testing results 3 proofs of residency in Orleans Parish How is Edna Karr any different than any other parish with an open enrollment plan? Karr’s problem with the OneApp program that has aided them to this point is that they fought to be in Non-Select; meaning that they can turn away no student. The OneApp program, if you research, allows a large percentage of families’ first choice of schools to be the placement they are granted. Karr is a successful academic & athletic school....but they are also in the top 3 in 4A enrollment. Influx of students chasing success(whether academic or athletic) will drive enrollment up. Will they choose to go to 5A, or will they choose to be able to regulate their enrollment, which will place them in Select school status?? I will say this: the advantage of a school like Karr to have students from all over the most populated Parish in the state is definitely not a luxury that most of the other top 4A teams have, except Warren Easton. Ask yourself this: why was Easton’s or Karr’s success nowhere near the same before OneApp program?
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Post by Raven on Apr 22, 2019 9:18:34 GMT -6
That's the most ridiculous thing you've said yet. You say private schools have an inherent advantage, but can't name a single one that uses it. And because they have it they should be discriminated against and ostracized.
Do you also believe that someone who legally owns a gun should be put in prison because he has the ability to kill someone even though he's never committed a crime in his life? Because that's what you're saying about private schools and their so-called advantage. Even if they don't use it they need to be punished.
I understand your frustration though. You lash out at me because you have no substantive argument to refute anything I've said. Just keep restating your original premise with nothing to back it up. That'll work.
You don't think private schools have an advantage over public schools? I believe they do for two reasons: - Private schools have more flexibility with their money. It is almost an act of congress to try and order anything at a public school. Of course, it can be done but the paperwork required is preposterous. This is accurate, but there is a counter-balance in most instances. While private schools may have more flexibility in how their athletic departments spend their money, that money still must be generated independently from the school's operating costs. As far as I am aware, tuition money does not go toward athletics. So those are additional funds that must be raised. I'm sure there are similar limitations in public schools as far as how much money is allocated toward athletics within a particular school's budget, so I think they are more alike than different in that respect.- Private schools do not have zones or boundaries. I think this is the biggest hang up for most people. Obviously the ability to get students from anywhere in a particular region is an advantage over schools who can not do so under the letter of the law. I'm sure public do this as well, but it is against the rules for them to do so whereas a private club can do so with free reign. While it is true that private schools operate without a designated a zone, I can only see that as an advantage if: 1. There are no other private school options within a given geographic radius that students (or their parents) can choose from, and 2. There were no tuition requirements to attend, and 3. Private schools were guaranteed a certain number of kids from a given area every year.
Because of the tuition costs and because no one is required to attend a private school (unlike public schools who have a guaranteed student body every year) and because there are usually 2-3 other private schools within driving distance that are also competing for students, there are a limited number of students who will ever even consider attending private school. When 3 or more private schools are competing for those same private school students that again reduces the amount of students that can attend any one private school.
To use the Baton Rouge area as an example, there are at least 15 private high schools in Baton Rouge and the surrounding parishes (not counting the ones that don't have football teams) and all are within relatively easy driving distance to at least 2 others in that area and all of the ones that are in the city of Baton Rouge especially for parents who commute into the city for work. That's a lot of schools competing for the same base of private school students.
Another factor to consider is that most private schools are affiliated with a particular faith. So while a Catholic student may live right next door to Parkview Baptist and live within that school's zone, if they attend a private school they are much more likely to choose either Catholic High or St. Michael. If regulated by an attendance zone, and attending a school outside of that zone, you're effectively telling that student that he is unable to participate in sports due to his faith, which could be considered a form of discrimination.
Thank you, Ray, for your well-considered response. It is much more enjoyable to discuss issues with someone who knows how to formulate an argument even if I disagree with the premise.
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Apr 22, 2019 11:02:13 GMT -6
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Post by indy on Apr 22, 2019 11:02:13 GMT -6
What ever legitimate differences public and private schools had or any advantages one might have had prior to the split no longer exist or at the least are Irrelevant.
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Post by iamray on Apr 22, 2019 19:18:22 GMT -6
You don't think private schools have an advantage over public schools? I believe they do for two reasons: - Private schools have more flexibility with their money. It is almost an act of congress to try and order anything at a public school. Of course, it can be done but the paperwork required is preposterous. This is accurate, but there is a counter-balance in most instances. While private schools may have more flexibility in how their athletic departments spend their money, that money still must be generated independently from the school's operating costs. As far as I am aware, tuition money does not go toward athletics. So those are additional funds that must be raised. I'm sure there are similar limitations in public schools as far as how much money is allocated toward athletics within a particular school's budget, so I think they are more alike than different in that respect.- Private schools do not have zones or boundaries. I think this is the biggest hang up for most people. Obviously the ability to get students from anywhere in a particular region is an advantage over schools who can not do so under the letter of the law. I'm sure public do this as well, but it is against the rules for them to do so whereas a private club can do so with free reign. While it is true that private schools operate without a designated a zone, I can only see that as an advantage if: 1. There are no other private school options within a given geographic radius that students (or their parents) can choose from, and 2. There were no tuition requirements to attend, and 3. Private schools were guaranteed a certain number of kids from a given area every year.
Because of the tuition costs and because no one is required to attend a private school (unlike public schools who have a guaranteed student body every year) and because there are usually 2-3 other private schools within driving distance that are also competing for students, there are a limited number of students who will ever even consider attending private school. When 3 or more private schools are competing for those same private school students that again reduces the amount of students that can attend any one private school.
To use the Baton Rouge area as an example, there are at least 15 private high schools in Baton Rouge and the surrounding parishes (not counting the ones that don't have football teams) and all are within relatively easy driving distance to at least 2 others in that area and all of the ones that are in the city of Baton Rouge especially for parents who commute into the city for work. That's a lot of schools competing for the same base of private school students.
Another factor to consider is that most private schools are affiliated with a particular faith. So while a Catholic student may live right next door to Parkview Baptist and live within that school's zone, if they attend a private school they are much more likely to choose either Catholic High or St. Michael. If regulated by an attendance zone, and attending a school outside of that zone, you're effectively telling that student that he is unable to participate in sports due to his faith, which could be considered a form of discrimination.
Thank you, Ray, for your well-considered response. It is much more enjoyable to discuss issues with someone who knows how to formulate an argument even if I disagree with the premise. While it is true that private schools operate without a designated a zone, I can only see that as an advantage if:"1. There are no other private school options within a given geographic radius that students (or their parents) can choose from, and"- Logically this makes sense, but let's be practical as well. Let's limit the discussion to private schools with athletic programs. I do see your point, however. "2. There were no tuition requirements to attend"
- Yes, but aren't there a bevy of options available to help defray this cost? Catholic High of Baton Rouge has 135 different scholarships available to provide need-based tuition to its students. Because of this, the tuition argument is null and void. 3. Private schools were guaranteed a certain number of kids from a given area every year. - Lets keep the focus on private schools with athletics. Because of scholarships such as the ones listed above, private schools can somewhat guarantee a certain amount of student-athletes each year by eliminating its own burden of tuition."all are within relatively easy driving distance to at least 2 others in that area and all of the ones that are in the city of Baton Rouge especially for parents who commute into the city for work."- There are also plenty of schools with extensive transportation options. For example, take a look at JC's transportation reach: East Bank Metro Area: (excluding east of the Industrial Canal), Chalmette, New Orleans, Destrehan, Harahan, Jefferson, Kenner, Metairie, River Ridge, St. Rose / West Bank: Algiers, Belle Chase, Bridge City, Gretna, Harvey, Marrero, New Orleans, Terrytown, Waggaman, Westwego
All of this information can be found on Catholic and John Curtis' webpages. For these reasons, I firmly believe programs such as these have substantial advantages over most public schools. I appreciate your decorum. It is nice to disagree with someone without the usual hostility.
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