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Post by fanman on Apr 27, 2019 8:00:02 GMT -6
now that’s just funny
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Post by pinion on Apr 27, 2019 9:23:18 GMT -6
1. I get that some public schools use a parish-wide open enrollment, but this isn't the case statewide and, to my knowledge, was only begun about a decade or so ago. In Ouachita Parish, you have Neville, West Monroe, Ouachita, West Ouachita, Richwood, Sterlington, Carroll and Wossman High School who all are required to accept any student within their attendance boundary. More specifically, this includes their athletes as well. My point is that private schools select their athletes from anywhere. They have a far greater reach to search for athletes than most public programs.
"They have to make money and a public school just chills out and that taxpayers, private school parents included, have to pay in. No matter if the system is working or not or how terrible the schools are, they have to pay in to it."
-This goes both ways. Public funds have been diverted into private schools in a number of ways. Look at school voucher programs for example. Vouchers allow parents to spend taxpayer dollars on schools of their choice; this includes private schools. It covers the cost of tuition and fees. Most states also offer a tax credit for scholarships where donors receive up to 100% of their donation in the form of a tax credit. This is a good point you make, but it does go both ways.
I appreciate the input. I really think you make some good points. I don't see why the privates haven't formed something similar to the MAIS. If I was in control of it all I was go back to the play up rule. I loved the Neville/JC matchups.
I agree that open enrollment isn't state-wide. But from a "this or that" stand point, you're either drawing kids from out of your zone or you aren't. When some do, and are non-select and some don't and they're also non-select, it sure does look strange for all of them to be casting stones at private schools for doing it. As far as the only begun about a decade or so ago... uh.. every single public school in Caddo parish was a "magnet" school when I was in HS and I graduated in 92. And as short-bus as the CPSB is, they surely did not come up with that idea on their own. You mention that private schools have a far greater reach. Again, you're either drawing from outside of your immediate zone or you aren't. If your "grab area" is not as large as a private school, that's on the public school in question; change your draw area. If a public school is drawing from the entire parish and is complaining about a private school drawing from outside of their immediate zone, it just muddies the water. Because they're both drawing from outside of their immediate zone. Really, in that situation, to discuss who is drawing from a larger area is just a misdirect from the fact that both are drawing from outside their immediate zone. And I get that not all public schools draw from all over, but the ones that are should be "select" if we're going to do it this way. I only mention the funding part because so many on the anti-private side of the fence seem to take issue with me paying for a kid that's not mine to attend a private school. They completely ignore the fact that we're all paying for kids that aren't ours to attend public schools. As for tax breaks and what-not, we got tax breaks for the expenses involved when we had a kid at public school. Right down to clothes we bought for him to wear to school. My parents paid most of the tuition for our son that we had at Evangel, we had to pay the taxes on the money we didn't pay in tuition. Vouchers: I'll admit that I don't know much about the workings of all that. From my perspective, it seems like a great idea if the public school in a given area is terrible. Along similar lines: When we moved from Texas back to Louisiana and was looking into putting our youngest at Evangel, they had fill out paperwork and such for him to receive a "scholarship". They'd never seen him and never asked about anything other than his grades. We provided report cards and such that went back X amount of time. They never asked about sports or anything. I say that because there seems to be a misconception that they only give scholarships to athletes and they had no way of knowing he was going to play football. At the time, we didn't even know he was going to play as he'd never shown any interest in playing. He knew what a football was but he didn't really know what you did with it. Evangel also did everything they could to get our oldest to come to school there, even though he's very tiny and 80% blind. He was happy at his public school and decided to stay there. As for discussing this, I think it's healthy to discuss it. I get where some people may feel like it's old and don't want to discuss it, and that's fine. They don't have to. For me, I feel like had this sort of discussion actually taken place we may still have ended up with the split, but there wouldn't be so much anger surrounding it. There were way too many people spreading outright lies (looking at you, Booker) and letting their own personal positions come off as being an authority on the matter. This split is neither a compromise or a best possible outcome for either side. At some point there will either be multiple organizations or a full season split situation and i don't believe that either are good for sports in the state of Louisiana. Texas gets by with multiple leagues simply because of the amount of people and schools over here. In just the Austin Metro, we have half of Louisiana's population. Louisiana is a small state and dividing things up isn't benefiting anything except certain people's ego's that they got to take a shot a private school sports.
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Post by iamray on Apr 28, 2019 8:35:00 GMT -6
Not uneducated nor redneck board certified in Anesthesia and retired LTC. and if you call that post civil then I am at a loss of what civility is. Like I said share your opinion that’s fine. And you can just continue to have it that’s fine as well Big whoop. This discussion was civil until you interjected with an asinine comment. Is telling someone to “grow a pair” civil? Probably not. So, yea, I’d say you don’t have a clue what civility is.
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Post by fanman on Apr 28, 2019 9:45:18 GMT -6
I’m asking you to not comment to me anymore Your sopric post to me are irritating. I get a lot of joy and diversion from high school sports don’t have time for immaturity and moronic conversations with you
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Post by fanman on Apr 28, 2019 9:48:39 GMT -6
Southplaq. Now I’ve got plenty of time for you. You make me laugh I like that
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Post by indy on Apr 28, 2019 15:03:45 GMT -6
Southplaq. Now I’ve got plenty of time for you. You make me laugh I like that Your Sucking up makes me laugh 😂
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Post by iamray on Apr 28, 2019 17:19:28 GMT -6
I’m asking you to not comment to me anymore Your sopric post to me are irritating. I get a lot of joy and diversion from high school sports don’t have time for immaturity and moronic conversations with you But, but, "don't be so thin-skinned." Good lord. The amount of posters here who talk out of both sides of their mouths is astounding. You're a hypocrite. Don't tell someone else to "grow a pair," and then turn around and say "leave me alone."
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Post by benella2254 on Apr 29, 2019 14:04:07 GMT -6
Well, IAMRAY, I agree on your two points. 1. Private schools like Evangel can "get" their students from anywhere, ie Someone could be on vacation in California and tell a parent about how "great" our school is, and like magic the student shows up in West Shreveport. 2. As far as enrollment goes, yes you are correct, Public schools by law must take "everybody". In a broad sense bad students do get weeded (no pun) out in the Public School. At Evangel bad students can be shown the door and removed quickly. I have always said the two, Private and Public have nothing in common, and Private schools should have their own league. Good response. And, I appreciate the decorum. I do wish we could go back to how it was when I was in high school (2002-2006) where JC played up in 4A and Evangel played up in 5A. I feel that is the most practical solution. The split has been a total failure in my opinion. You hit the nail on the head. The split should have never happened. The LHSAA boneheadedly forced Curtis, Evangel, and several other powerhouses to play in their "correct" classifications rather than playing up in 2005. From 2001-2004, Curtis and Evangel won their state championship 3 times each in that 4 season span and both were runner-ups in the 1 season that they didn't win. They dominated 5A and 4A. Certain schools didn't like not getting their turn to win a title, whined and cried about it enough, and in true Generation X fashion the LHSAA gave the fussy millennials what they wanted. Evangel and Curtis were dropped to the classification they "belonged" in according to their numbers. Now rather than competing for state championships, they were steamrolling their way to the Dome and basically being handed titles. The 5A and 4A fussy pants could now have their turn at winning state championships. Forcing the heavyweight champions to go pulverized everyone in the lightweight division is what caused the split. Screw the split. Put the divisions back together, let the privates play up to the class of their choosing, and let's roll!
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Post by iamray on Apr 29, 2019 16:15:11 GMT -6
Good response. And, I appreciate the decorum. I do wish we could go back to how it was when I was in high school (2002-2006) where JC played up in 4A and Evangel played up in 5A. I feel that is the most practical solution. The split has been a total failure in my opinion. You hit the nail on the head. The split should have never happened. The LHSAA boneheadedly forced Curtis, Evangel, and several other powerhouses to play in their "correct" classifications rather than playing up in 2005. From 2001-2004, Curtis and Evangel won their state championship 3 times each in that 4 season span and both were runner-ups in the 1 season that they didn't win. They dominated 5A and 4A. Certain schools didn't like not getting their turn to win a title, whined and cried about it enough, and in true Generation X fashion the LHSAA gave the fussy millennials what they wanted. Evangel and Curtis were dropped to the classification they "belonged" in according to their numbers. Now rather than competing for state championships, they were steamrolling their way to the Dome and basically being handed titles. The 5A and 4A fussy pants could now have their turn at winning state championships. Forcing the heavyweight champions to go pulverized everyone in the lightweight division is what caused the split. Screw the split. Put the divisions back together, let the privates play up to the class of their choosing, and let's roll! I'll go a step further. No doubt the traditional names in 4A and 5A led the charge, but let's not forgot Winnfield's role in this as well. When they made it to the dome and got boat raced by JC, their principal went gung ho and the ball started rolling.
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Post by benella2254 on Apr 29, 2019 21:52:35 GMT -6
You hit the nail on the head. The split should have never happened. The LHSAA boneheadedly forced Curtis, Evangel, and several other powerhouses to play in their "correct" classifications rather than playing up in 2005. From 2001-2004, Curtis and Evangel won their state championship 3 times each in that 4 season span and both were runner-ups in the 1 season that they didn't win. They dominated 5A and 4A. Certain schools didn't like not getting their turn to win a title, whined and cried about it enough, and in true Generation X fashion the LHSAA gave the fussy millennials what they wanted. Evangel and Curtis were dropped to the classification they "belonged" in according to their numbers. Now rather than competing for state championships, they were steamrolling their way to the Dome and basically being handed titles. The 5A and 4A fussy pants could now have their turn at winning state championships. Forcing the heavyweight champions to go pulverized everyone in the lightweight division is what caused the split. Screw the split. Put the divisions back together, let the privates play up to the class of their choosing, and let's roll! I'll go a step further. No doubt the traditional names in 4A and 5A led the charge, but let's not forgot Winnfield's role in this as well. When they made it to the dome and got boat raced by JC, their principal went gung ho and the ball started rolling. No doubt. Winnfield’s role in pushing for a split is not being overlooked; however, had JC continued playing in 4A rather than being forced to play in 2A in 2005, Winnfield would have never had the opportunity to raise cane in 2011. The real blame lies with the larger public schools. Regardless of what anyone says, the major private schools were absolutely bringing in students for the sole purpose of competing in athletics. It’s not even a debatable subject anymore. It’s not speculation, it’s facts. That being said.....the big names in public schools did and continue to do the same thing. Again, this isn’t up for debate. It’s facts. Everyone on this forum knows it happens, and those that passionately defend their schools are either living in LaLaland or are in extreme denial. It’s happened for decades and nothing is going to change that. The larger public schools are to blame for the split because they were the ones crying the loudest about Evangel and Curtis....all while bringing in kids for athletic purposes. These cries were heard and rather than telling them to suck it up and compete, they pacified the wailing babes and punished the smaller, rural public schools that could not compete against state and national powerhouses. Look at the records for state championships. 3A-1A public schools held their own for years against the private schools in their classification. In 2005 this all changed. By 2015, it was too much for some to take. And...rightfully so. Curtis, Evange, and a handful of others had no business in 3A-1A. But rather than looking at history, seeing the real cause of the issue and fixing it....the Split was introduced and now we a left picking up the pieces of this crapshoot.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Apr 30, 2019 8:32:01 GMT -6
iamray and benella2254, great conversation to read. Couldn't agree more with both of y'all. Not positive but pretty sure I'm older than both of y'all (graduated '86), didn't have the problems we have today where the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality was prevalent.
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Post by iknownuthing on May 8, 2019 17:57:12 GMT -6
To my knowledge ND has never turned down a student. We have asked some to leave for things such as non-payment, substance abuse, failed grades, etc. parents choose schools, schools don’t choose students. You make it sound like there is some kind of lottery or draft picks. You obviously are misinformed Stop being so short-sided. You are only using Notre Dame for evidence. When you step back and examine it from a state-wide lens, you will see that private programs have the ability to select students from anywhere. This is an inherent advantage over public programs who are only allowed to take students from their attendance boundary. Not a Fact: Private schools do not have attendance boundaries. Private schools have/had/has the same attendance zone as the closest public school by rule. STM/Comeaux, Teurlings/Northside ect. Your premise is/was/remains flowedNot a or partial Fact: Public schools have attendance boundaries. Public schools attendance zones are not set by the LHSAA, they are set by the school board. This has nothing to do with athletics except that the LHSAA adopted them to setup an attendance rule. But that rule was never enforced as the parishes constantly changed zones many times for athletic purposes, see the advantage Barbe High has over every other school in the parish. Also, Many parishes allow/allowed out of zone students in the public school with permission of the principal or the superintendent and also for hardship or so called hardship cases. This led to state wide abuse. Not a Fact: Private schools select their student-athletes from anywhere. Except for possibly St. Paul's in Covington, no school in the state private or public has students from outside or the parish or the adjacent parish. I know that a few from Lafayette/Duson go to Notre Dame and a few from St. Martin Parish go to Teurlings and STM, but 99% and greater in any given year come from within the parish, within the zone or within the schools system feeder system just like the public schools. In all out of zone cases the rule was/is/has been but does not remain the same for all schools public and private in that you had to sit our a year to gain eligibility.Not a Fact: Public schools must accept any student from their attendance zone. Yes, but private schools are restricted to the students they can take. Despite the false narrative that there are "scholarships" with only a possible exception of 1 maybe two private schools, require all students to pay for attendance, anywhere from $7k to $12K per year per student, depending on the school. Plus, I don't know of a single private school that does not have a participation fee for athletics. Unlike public schools that receive $12k per student from the state plus additional funding from grants and from the federal food program, public school students do not pay for their education. Private school parents do not have a choice to not pay the tax that is used to fund the schools so they pay for both their kids to go to private school plus your kids to go to public schools. Yet they are denied the opportunity to participate in athletics at the same level simply because they choose the private route. It boils down to taxation without representation in this regard. The ability to cherry-pick student athletes from anywhere is an inherent advantage over being forced to assemble a roster from within an attendance boundary. How can you not see this as an advantage? The cherry picking is not done by the school but by the parent who looks at the poor quality of education offered by the public system and then cherry picks the best possible school for their kids, with a tuition they can afford that has a location that is appropriate and accessable. I have always said, if you want to make private schools go away, make your public school acceptable. An example is that STM is down to around 900 students almost down 200 kids. Where did they go...… Southside for the time being, until the parents figure out that it is just a nice building and no better than any other public school in the parish. I give it 4 years and then STM will go back up to 1100ish enrollment. Your premise is borne out of ignorance of who the people are that send their kids to private schools. They are your neighbors, major tax payers and people that are willing to sacrifice to give their kids the best possible education they can give them. They are also usually the more faithful members of their church to support both the church and the church school.
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Post by iknownuthing on May 8, 2019 18:01:20 GMT -6
Alter their enrollment? You mean by accepting less students than they could so that they can play down a classification? Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you mean here because even if they told 5 students no so they stayed in 4A, 3A etc. it would cost the school $50,000 a year to do so. You must mean something else by “alter their enrollment”. to be fair, nonselect schools can alter their numbers too to stay in a classification... A school board might alter district lines, or open another school The Ghost student. I am always amazed at how many public schools have one count for the LHSAA and another for the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$………...
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Post by indy on May 8, 2019 19:56:17 GMT -6
to be fair, nonselect schools can alter their numbers too to stay in a classification... A school board might alter district lines, or open another school The Ghost student. I am always amazed at how many public schools have one count for the LHSAA and another for the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$………... Yet the hypocritical s accuse private schools of turning down $7000 per student down if they can’t help the football team.
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Post by Sixpack on May 8, 2019 21:46:57 GMT -6
Sure private schools have attendance zones. So what?
The problem athletically is that private schools have always had the right to accept athletes from anywhere outside that zone by utilizing the sit out rule. Public schools can't. That may not be not a big problem now but back in the days when the two top private teams were starting to build their powerhouse programs it certainly was a problem. I'm a big Evangel fan and have been for a long time but I'm not stupid. Do you think Evangel won a national championship and about a dozen state titles using only athletes from that little zone they share with Huntington? Huntington shared the same zone, had way more students than Evangel and never won squat.
Why do you think the public schools back in the day were screaming for relief?? You think they were just making up some fairy tale about an unlevel playing field? Get real. Public school athletes back then could not use a sit out rule because public school athletes back then were not allowed to live outside their prescribe zone period. Duh! And the fact that their attendance zones were set by the LHSAA "has nothing to do with athletics"? LOL! Really? It has everything to do with athletics and nothing else. And yes, those zones WERE enforced by the LHSAA right up until the split and the parish boundary changes for select and non select schools. If you say the rules were not enforced list the names of every public high school football player you can think of who played football at a public school outside the attendance zone he lived in back before the split. Public athletes playing outside their prescribed zone was NOT the problem. The problem back then was that the two big private powerhouses were in the Dome every year to some extent because they were becoming semi all-star teams. It is true that the LHSAA sit out rule was and is the same for both public and private school athletes. However that is completely irrelevant because public students or athletes back when the publics started complaining could not live outside their zone in the first place. THAT was the problem and it had nothing to do with money. Evangel had a couple of stud athletes whose families were obviously too poor to pay private school tuition but they still attended school and played football. THAT is cherry picking done by the private school NOT by the student's parents. And who said they would like for private schools to "go away". The only criticism of schools I have ever seen on this board has been private school proponents like you hating on public school education. The public-private school athletic debate is not even about quality of education or who goes to church the most. It never has been. It's about a level playing field and fair competition for public high school athletes. That's why the only way to ever handle it was to make the rules the same for publics and privates OR split. The LHSAA couldn't make the rules the same so they split.
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Post by unbiasedobserver on May 9, 2019 6:16:29 GMT -6
Attendance zones were set up by the LHSAA?
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Post by indy on May 9, 2019 6:55:15 GMT -6
Attendance zones were set up by the LHSAA? Not for public schools, they set and manipulated their own zones to meet their needs. The LHSAA assigned private schools a zone common to the closest public school
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Post by warriorsblue on May 9, 2019 11:11:59 GMT -6
Six,,, I agree to disagree,,, back when Evangel was rolling and I was there from 02-09. The games vs West Monroe, Rummel, and other top flight 5A schools were some of the most exciting games I ever have been part of,,, except for 02 all games were very competitive,,,, If it had been left alone,,, some great games through the years would have been played. Put JC in 5A and even better games,,,, those two schools because they had athletes that could compete is why the split happened,,,I hate every school needs a trophy mentality,,, It is happening all over America and I can't stand it.
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Post by iamray on May 9, 2019 11:40:43 GMT -6
Stop being so short-sided. You are only using Notre Dame for evidence. When you step back and examine it from a state-wide lens, you will see that private programs have the ability to select students from anywhere. This is an inherent advantage over public programs who are only allowed to take students from their attendance boundary. Not a Fact: Private schools do not have attendance boundaries. Private schools have/had/has the same attendance zone as the closest public school by rule. STM/Comeaux, Teurlings/Northside ect. Your premise is/was/remains flowedNot a or partial Fact: Public schools have attendance boundaries. Public schools attendance zones are not set by the LHSAA, they are set by the school board. This has nothing to do with athletics except that the LHSAA adopted them to setup an attendance rule. But that rule was never enforced as the parishes constantly changed zones many times for athletic purposes, see the advantage Barbe High has over every other school in the parish. Also, Many parishes allow/allowed out of zone students in the public school with permission of the principal or the superintendent and also for hardship or so called hardship cases. This led to state wide abuse. Not a Fact: Private schools select their student-athletes from anywhere. Except for possibly St. Paul's in Covington, no school in the state private or public has students from outside or the parish or the adjacent parish. I know that a few from Lafayette/Duson go to Notre Dame and a few from St. Martin Parish go to Teurlings and STM, but 99% and greater in any given year come from within the parish, within the zone or within the schools system feeder system just like the public schools. In all out of zone cases the rule was/is/has been but does not remain the same for all schools public and private in that you had to sit our a year to gain eligibility.Not a Fact: Public schools must accept any student from their attendance zone. Yes, but private schools are restricted to the students they can take. Despite the false narrative that there are "scholarships" with only a possible exception of 1 maybe two private schools, require all students to pay for attendance, anywhere from $7k to $12K per year per student, depending on the school. Plus, I don't know of a single private school that does not have a participation fee for athletics. Unlike public schools that receive $12k per student from the state plus additional funding from grants and from the federal food program, public school students do not pay for their education. Private school parents do not have a choice to not pay the tax that is used to fund the schools so they pay for both their kids to go to private school plus your kids to go to public schools. Yet they are denied the opportunity to participate in athletics at the same level simply because they choose the private route. It boils down to taxation without representation in this regard. The ability to cherry-pick student athletes from anywhere is an inherent advantage over being forced to assemble a roster from within an attendance boundary. How can you not see this as an advantage? The cherry picking is not done by the school but by the parent who looks at the poor quality of education offered by the public system and then cherry picks the best possible school for their kids, with a tuition they can afford that has a location that is appropriate and accessable. I have always said, if you want to make private schools go away, make your public school acceptable. An example is that STM is down to around 900 students almost down 200 kids. Where did they go...… Southside for the time being, until the parents figure out that it is just a nice building and no better than any other public school in the parish. I give it 4 years and then STM will go back up to 1100ish enrollment. Your premise is borne out of ignorance of who the people are that send their kids to private schools. They are your neighbors, major tax payers and people that are willing to sacrifice to give their kids the best possible education they can give them. They are also usually the more faithful members of their church to support both the church and the church school. "Private schools have/had/has the same attendance zone as the closest public school by rule. STM/Comeaux, Teurlings/Northside ect. Your premise is/was/remains flowed" - What rule are your referring to? If this is the case then tell me why OCS has buses running through West Monroe and Bastrop when the closest public school is Sterlington. Don't believe me? Check for yourself - www.ocs.org/faq - My premise is solid." This has nothing to do with athletics except that the LHSAA adopted them to setup an attendance rule."- It had EVERYTHING to with athletics. I really don't see any logical way to argue otherwise."Except for possibly St. Paul's in Covington, no school in the state private or public has students from outside or the parish or the adjacent parish." - How would you know that? The answer is that you wouldn't. It's an assumption to suit your argument. And why should schools be allowed to have kids from adjacent parishes? Surely that isn't fair. JC has transportation routes reaching from Jefferson to Orleans Parish. This is the problem.
"Yes, but private schools are restricted to the students they can take." - Any private schools CAN SELECT or DENY any student they want. How is that not an advantage over a public school who must accept any student within the attendance boundary?"Despite the false narrative that there are "scholarships" with only a possible exception of 1 maybe two private schools, require all students to pay for attendance, anywhere from $7k to $12K per year per student, depending on the school."- False narrative? Definitely not. - catholichigh.org/giving/scholarship-opportunities/ - Catholic has over 130 scholarships. - www.johncurtis.com/files/7214/8408/0186/Scholarships__Financial_Aid.pdf - John Curtis has an "undetermined" number of scholarships available, plus work study. It is absolutely the TRUTH that private schools with some of the BEST football programs offer scholarships to defray tuition. To say otherwise is an outright lie."The cherry picking is not done by the school but by the parent who looks at the poor quality of education offered by the public system and then cherry picks the best possible school for their kids, with a tuition they can afford that has a location that is appropriate and accessable."Wow, where to start. First, privates SELECT their student body. This is cherry picking. They can reject any student who applies. It is their right as a private school. Have you ever thought that maybe the "poor" quality of education offered by public schools is relative to the fact that UNLIKE PRIVATE schools, public schools must ACCEPT ALL STUDENTS. Privates choose every single student in their school; no student was forced into their school. Cherry picking. "Your premise is borne out of ignorance of who the people are that send their kids to private schools."- No, not at all. I don't have to know "who the people are" who send their kids to private schools to know that private schools have had inherent advantages over public schools. " They are your neighbors, major tax payers and people that are willing to sacrifice to give their kids the best possible education they can give them."- So you are saying that public schools parents aren't your "neighbors", that they don't pay "major" taxes (please explain what a "major" tax is), and that they don't sacrifice for their kids??? How ignorant. This isn't remotely close to the truth. Public school parents pay just the same taxes as private schools and those same taxes make their way into private schools just as they do with public schools." They are also usually the more faithful members of their church to support both the church and the church school." - How in the world can you say private school parents are "more faithful to their church" over public school parents? That's short-sided, misinformed and delusional. Besides, what in the world does this have to do with ANYTHING related to the FACT that private schools have had an inherent advantage over public schools because they can select their students and they have no attendance boundaries? The attendance zone rule you are referencing is either farcical or nonexistent as I have linked OCS' faq page which clearly shows three bus routes: Monroe, West Monroe and Bastrop. The closest public school to OCS is Sterlington. What gives??
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Post by Sixpack on May 9, 2019 11:42:01 GMT -6
Six,,, I agree to disagree,,, back when Evangel was rolling and I was there from 02-09. The games vs West Monroe, Rummel, and other top flight 5A schools were some of the most exciting games I ever have been part of,,, except for 02 all games were very competitive,,,, If it had been left alone,,, some great games through the years would have been played. Put JC in 5A and even better games,,,, those two schools because they had athletes that could compete is why the split happened,,,I hate every school needs a trophy mentality,,, It is happening all over America and I can't stand it. The best solution was not to split but to require JC, Evangel and any other powerhouse private program to play in the higher classifications. Evangel was always willing to do that. But instead of allowing Evangel to stay in the highest classification the LHSSAA first tried to solve the problem by forcing Evangel to play down to their true enrollment classification and that was one of the craziest things I have ever seen. That did nothing but allow Evangel to score on some teams almost every time they ran a play. Some solution.
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Post by iamray on May 9, 2019 11:43:08 GMT -6
Attendance zones were set up by the LHSAA? Not for public schools, they set and manipulated their own zones to meet their needs. The LHSAA assigned private schools a zone common to the closest public school Yes, this was done in response to private schools abusing their privileges. Also, please list the attendance zone rule you are referencing. OCS has three bus routes: Monroe, West Monroe and Bastrop. If the zone is supposed to be "common to the closest public school" that would be Sterlington. Why are the buses going to West Monroe and Bastrop? John Curtis sends buses from River Ridge to Westwego. What gives?
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Post by indy on May 9, 2019 12:15:23 GMT -6
Ray how do you explain the stud qb from Carroll playing 2011 football season for Carroll and 2012 football season for Neville
Ray also how do you explain Hootie Jones zoned for Ouachita Parish playing football for Neville?
Ray also ho do you explain Cam Robinson played frosh and soph year for Ouachita Parish then transfers to West Monroe?
West Monroe has as many if not more skeletons in their closet than Evangel so stop scap goating them "west monroe holdback rule" "Bradie James"
i've got a good friend who's a neville graduate who knows of several kids who have played football for Neville as a senior and gone home to their public school for basketball and gradation so you can stop this act
because that's all it is it's an ACT i'm sure you'll deny the allegations of the "fire house gang"
NEVILLE and West Monroe don't follow zones same as Evangel and John Curtis
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Post by wshs on May 9, 2019 12:15:27 GMT -6
Six,,, I agree to disagree,,, back when Evangel was rolling and I was there from 02-09. The games vs West Monroe, Rummel, and other top flight 5A schools were some of the most exciting games I ever have been part of,,, except for 02 all games were very competitive,,,, If it had been left alone,,, some great games through the years would have been played. Put JC in 5A and even better games,,,, those two schools because they had athletes that could compete is why the split happened,,,I hate every school needs a trophy mentality,,, It is happening all over America and I can't stand it. So sick of this argument but its going to continue indefinitely. I agree there are some valid arguments on both sides but I don't agree that the push for the split was because of an "everybody needs a trophy" mentality. Having a fair playing field isn't the same as saying everybody needs a trophy.
A lot of the larger public schools with plenty of resources have recruited for years. Private schools located around these large population areas have recruited as well. So guess in a since their is a fair playing field among these teams. But you all will continue to bash these smaller public schools for pushing the split only to level the playing field. And that's exactly what it has done. In 2A there has been a different state football champion every year for the last six or seven years. Why-- because the playing field has been leveled. The majority of public schools don't have 50,000 + kids to choose from. Maybe do away with the split but classify the teams based off the population they pull from? IDK, but its ridiculous for people to not understand why these public schools pushed for the split.
Tell me if this is even logical: and the numbers are just ball park
John Curtis/ Evangel etc... -- They have 400 kids enrolled so they are 2A. Of the 400, 60 play football. Of the 60, 20 have D1 talent, 10 more have D2 talent. O. Line and D. Line average 6-4 300 lbs. Their back ups average that as well.
Public School A/ B/ C etc... -- They have 400 kids in the entire parish. OF the 400, 60 play football. Of the 60, 1 has D1 talent, 2 more may have D2 talent. O. Line and D. Line average 5/11 250 lbs. Biggest kid on team is 6/4.
But hey enrollment is the same, so they are both 2A. But why such a huge difference in talent? Oh, well John Curtis got their 60 players from the 1 million kids living in New Orleans. Public School A got their players from those 400 kids living in the parish.
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Post by indy on May 9, 2019 12:18:26 GMT -6
that's why the metro / rural proposal is valid!
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Post by wshs on May 9, 2019 12:24:27 GMT -6
Ray how do you explain the stud qb from Carroll playing 2011 football season for Carroll and 2012 football season for Neville Ray also how do you explain Hootie Jones zoned for Ouachita Parish playing football for Neville? Ray also ho do you explain Cam Robinson played frosh and soph year for Ouachita Parish then transfers to West Monroe? West Monroe has as many if not more skeletons in their closet than Evangel so stop scap goating them "west monroe holdback rule" "Bradie James" i've got a good friend who's a neville graduate who knows of several kids who have played football for Neville as a senior and gone home to their public school for basketball and gradation so you can stop this act because that's all it is it's an ACT i'm sure you'll deny the allegations of the "fire house gang" NEVILLE and West Monroe don't follow zones same as Evangel and John Curtis Agree with you on this one. Had West Monroe visit our little town trying to pick off our running back back in the late 90's. Evangel showed up as well. West Monroe ended up moving our QB entire family up awhile back. Cushy jobs for everyone.
That being said, I wished you could understand why these smaller public schools pushed so hard for the split. Not because they think everybody needs a trophy, because they wanted a legitimate chance to compete with teams that had to follow the same rules. To equal the playing field.
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Post by wshs on May 9, 2019 12:25:36 GMT -6
that's why the metro / rural proposal is valid! Don't know anything about that? How does that work?
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Post by indy on May 9, 2019 12:52:53 GMT -6
that's why the metro / rural proposal is valid! Don't know anything about that? How does that work? It was a plan proposed to split teams into metro and rural areas instead of public and private.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on May 9, 2019 13:39:52 GMT -6
Six,,, I agree to disagree,,, back when Evangel was rolling and I was there from 02-09. The games vs West Monroe, Rummel, and other top flight 5A schools were some of the most exciting games I ever have been part of,,, except for 02 all games were very competitive,,,, If it had been left alone,,, some great games through the years would have been played. Put JC in 5A and even better games,,,, those two schools because they had athletes that could compete is why the split happened,,,I hate every school needs a trophy mentality,,, It is happening all over America and I can't stand it. So sick of this argument but its going to continue indefinitely. I agree there are some valid arguments on both sides but I don't agree that the push for the split was because of an "everybody needs a trophy" mentality. Having a fair playing field isn't the same as saying everybody needs a trophy.
A lot of the larger public schools with plenty of resources have recruited for years. Private schools located around these large population areas have recruited as well. So guess in a since their is a fair playing field among these teams. But you all will continue to bash these smaller public schools for pushing the split only to level the playing field. And that's exactly what it has done. In 2A there has been a different state football champion every year for the last six or seven years. Why-- because the playing field has been leveled. The majority of public schools don't have 50,000 + kids to choose from. Maybe do away with the split but classify the teams based off the population they pull from? IDK, but its ridiculous for people to not understand why these public schools pushed for the split.
Tell me if this is even logical: and the numbers are just ball park
John Curtis/ Evangel etc... -- They have 400 kids enrolled so they are 2A. Of the 400, 60 play football. Of the 60, 20 have D1 talent, 10 more have D2 talent. O. Line and D. Line average 6-4 300 lbs. Their back ups average that as well.
Public School A/ B/ C etc... -- They have 400 kids in the entire parish. OF the 400, 60 play football. Of the 60, 1 has D1 talent, 2 more may have D2 talent. O. Line and D. Line average 5/11 250 lbs. Biggest kid on team is 6/4.
But hey enrollment is the same, so they are both 2A. But why such a huge difference in talent? Oh, well John Curtis got their 60 players from the 1 million kids living in New Orleans. Public School A got their players from those 400 kids living in the parish.
This is the same for the rural private schools. This is why if there has to be a split that the rural/metro split would have been better than what we have now. However I do believe that a few of the 2A schools are not for this since they have started "rolling" now that the split is the way it is. As a graduate of Many High School '86 I consider them to be one of these schools.
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Post by superdome2018 on May 9, 2019 15:18:55 GMT -6
It was what the MAJORITY wanted and it’s not going back together it’s just not.
I’d like to see it go to 4 public classes and 3 divisions that will make for some good brackets.
I’ve heard Booker say he would be for that.
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Post by chalmetteowl on May 9, 2019 17:24:58 GMT -6
"Private schools have/had/has the same attendance zone as the closest public school by rule. STM/Comeaux, Teurlings/Northside ect. Your premise is/was/remains flowed" - What rule are your referring to? If this is the case then tell me why OCS has buses running through West Monroe and Bastrop when the closest public school is Sterlington. Don't believe me? Check for yourself - www.ocs.org/faq - My premise is solid." This has nothing to do with athletics except that the LHSAA adopted them to setup an attendance rule."- It had EVERYTHING to with athletics. I really don't see any logical way to argue otherwise."Except for possibly St. Paul's in Covington, no school in the state private or public has students from outside or the parish or the adjacent parish." - How would you know that? The answer is that you wouldn't. It's an assumption to suit your argument. And why should schools be allowed to have kids from adjacent parishes? Surely that isn't fair. JC has transportation routes reaching from Jefferson to Orleans Parish. This is the problem.
"Yes, but private schools are restricted to the students they can take." - Any private schools CAN SELECT or DENY any student they want. How is that not an advantage over a public school who must accept any student within the attendance boundary?"Despite the false narrative that there are "scholarships" with only a possible exception of 1 maybe two private schools, require all students to pay for attendance, anywhere from $7k to $12K per year per student, depending on the school."- False narrative? Definitely not. - catholichigh.org/giving/scholarship-opportunities/ - Catholic has over 130 scholarships. - www.johncurtis.com/files/7214/8408/0186/Scholarships__Financial_Aid.pdf - John Curtis has an "undetermined" number of scholarships available, plus work study. It is absolutely the TRUTH that private schools with some of the BEST football programs offer scholarships to defray tuition. To say otherwise is an outright lie."The cherry picking is not done by the school but by the parent who looks at the poor quality of education offered by the public system and then cherry picks the best possible school for their kids, with a tuition they can afford that has a location that is appropriate and accessable."Wow, where to start. First, privates SELECT their student body. This is cherry picking. They can reject any student who applies. It is their right as a private school. Have you ever thought that maybe the "poor" quality of education offered by public schools is relative to the fact that UNLIKE PRIVATE schools, public schools must ACCEPT ALL STUDENTS. Privates choose every single student in their school; no student was forced into their school. Cherry picking. "Your premise is borne out of ignorance of who the people are that send their kids to private schools."- No, not at all. I don't have to know "who the people are" who send their kids to private schools to know that private schools have had inherent advantages over public schools. " They are your neighbors, major tax payers and people that are willing to sacrifice to give their kids the best possible education they can give them."- So you are saying that public schools parents aren't your "neighbors", that they don't pay "major" taxes (please explain what a "major" tax is), and that they don't sacrifice for their kids??? How ignorant. This isn't remotely close to the truth. Public school parents pay just the same taxes as private schools and those same taxes make their way into private schools just as they do with public schools." They are also usually the more faithful members of their church to support both the church and the church school." - How in the world can you say private school parents are "more faithful to their church" over public school parents? That's short-sided, misinformed and delusional. Besides, what in the world does this have to do with ANYTHING related to the FACT that private schools have had an inherent advantage over public schools because they can select their students and they have no attendance boundaries? The attendance zone rule you are referencing is either farcical or nonexistent as I have linked OCS' faq page which clearly shows three bus routes: Monroe, West Monroe and Bastrop. The closest public school to OCS is Sterlington. What gives?? the problem isn't Curtis having bus routes to all over (and I hope they catch a flat in my neck of the woods). The problem is before the split, their competition couldn't do the same thing. There wouldn't be this thread if all 400ish LHSAA schools could play by the same rules and Curtis could win fair and square. And the shame is, J.T. Curtis could have done it fair and square. It wouldn't be 27 titles, but even if he was at a JPPS, he'd probably still have a few state titles and be a legendary coach at a place like Bonnabel or Riverdale. If you're a good coach, talent will come to you if you prove yourself.
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