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Post by indy on Jul 8, 2016 10:52:23 GMT -6
To change the subject on how schools get their athletes let's say how they got there in the first place. My background is in agriculture and through LSU, seminars, and reading I have a little knowledge and a lot of love and respect for our states agricultural background. In fact Louisiana was settled on soil types. The first settled was the rich fertile soil along the rivers. The Spanish were first with sugarcane and cotton plantations. With that was the need for labor. I don't mean to go Jimmy the Greek or re-raise the stars and bars but it is part of our history. The best of the workers went to the sugarcane plantations, the next tier went to the cotton fields. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that cutting 12 ft cane and hauling tons of it was harder than picking 3 ft cotton and hauling pounds was easier. The common denominator was wood, both plantations needed hardwood which also needed a special type of worker. The next soil type settled was the prairies, towns like Crowley, Kaplan, Jennings, and Eunice. These towns were settled after the civil war and railroads replaced the need to be on the rivers. Many of these towns were settled by mid westerners and towns were set up similar with court circles and streets leading to them. They were also many immigrants who came to America for the freedom of religion and available land. the last areas of the state settled was the poorest soil, or the piney woods areas. I think through this we can appreciate how agriculture had a huge impact on where the better football athletes come from. 1st, follow the rivers and cane and cotton plantations. Then the prairies and lastly the piney woods.
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Post by gentsandpios on Jul 8, 2016 10:58:42 GMT -6
To change the subject on how schools get their athletes let's say how they got there in the first place. My background is in agriculture and through LSU, seminars, and reading I have a little knowledge and a lot of love and respect for our states agricultural background. In fact Louisiana was settled on soil types. The first settled was the rich fertile soil along the rivers. The Spanish were first with sugarcane and cotton plantations. With that was the need for labor. I don't mean to go Jimmy the Greek or re-raise the stars and bars but it is part of our history. The best of the workers went to the sugarcane plantations, the next tier went to the cotton fields. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that cutting 12 ft cane and hauling tons of it was harder than picking 3 ft cotton and hauling pounds was easier. The common denominator was wood, both plantations needed hardwood which also needed a special type of worker. The next soil type settled was the prairies, towns like Crowley, Kaplan, Jennings, and Eunice. These towns were settled after the civil war and railroads replaced the need to be on the rivers. Many of these towns were settled by mid westerners and towns were set up similar with court circles and streets leading to them. They were also many immigrants who came to America for the freedom of religion and available land. the last areas of the state settled was the poorest soil, or the piney woods areas. I think through this we can appreciate how agriculture had a huge impact on where the better football athletes come from. 1st, follow the rivers and cane and cotton plantations. Then the prairies and lastly the piney woods. Interesting, thanks for sharing.
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Post by btown on Jul 8, 2016 11:02:28 GMT -6
To change the subject on how schools get their athletes let's say how they got there in the first place. My background is in agriculture and through LSU, seminars, and reading I have a little knowledge and a lot of love and respect for our states agricultural background. In fact Louisiana was settled on soil types. The first settled was the rich fertile soil along the rivers. The Spanish were first with sugarcane and cotton plantations. With that was the need for labor. I don't mean to go Jimmy the Greek or re-raise the stars and bars but it is part of our history. The best of the workers went to the sugarcane plantations, the next tier went to the cotton fields. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that cutting 12 ft cane and hauling tons of it was harder than picking 3 ft cotton and hauling pounds was easier. The common denominator was wood, both plantations needed hardwood which also needed a special type of worker. The next soil type settled was the prairies, towns like Crowley, Kaplan, Jennings, and Eunice. These towns were settled after the civil war and railroads replaced the need to be on the rivers. Many of these towns were settled by mid westerners and towns were set up similar with court circles and streets leading to them. They were also many immigrants who came to America for the freedom of religion and available land. the last areas of the state settled was the poorest soil, or the piney woods areas. I think through this we can appreciate how agriculture had a huge impact on where the better football athletes come from. 1st, follow the rivers and cane and cotton plantations. Then the prairies and lastly the piney woods. So you are saying the athletes along the rivers are better than the athletes from the pine woods?
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Post by chalmetteowl on Jul 8, 2016 11:18:06 GMT -6
To change the subject on how schools get their athletes let's say how they got there in the first place. My background is in agriculture and through LSU, seminars, and reading I have a little knowledge and a lot of love and respect for our states agricultural background. In fact Louisiana was settled on soil types. The first settled was the rich fertile soil along the rivers. The Spanish were first with sugarcane and cotton plantations. With that was the need for labor. I don't mean to go Jimmy the Greek or re-raise the stars and bars but it is part of our history. The best of the workers went to the sugarcane plantations, the next tier went to the cotton fields. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that cutting 12 ft cane and hauling tons of it was harder than picking 3 ft cotton and hauling pounds was easier. The common denominator was wood, both plantations needed hardwood which also needed a special type of worker. The next soil type settled was the prairies, towns like Crowley, Kaplan, Jennings, and Eunice. These towns were settled after the civil war and railroads replaced the need to be on the rivers. Many of these towns were settled by mid westerners and towns were set up similar with court circles and streets leading to them. They were also many immigrants who came to America for the freedom of religion and available land. the last areas of the state settled was the poorest soil, or the piney woods areas. I think through this we can appreciate how agriculture had a huge impact on where the better football athletes come from. 1st, follow the rivers and cane and cotton plantations. Then the prairies and lastly the piney woods. So you are saying the athletes along the rivers are better than the athletes from the pine woods? i think everyone would agree on that, yes. the River Parish schools produce some of the best talent in the state. part of our history and culture is defined by the Isleno population in lower St. Bernard Parish, and our lack of winning history has partly to do with the genetics of Canary Islander fishermen and trappers that for the most part grow up smaller than most other populations...
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Post by indy on Jul 8, 2016 11:20:04 GMT -6
Not necessarily but I do believe that there is a link between agriculture, soil type, and football. I think many schools have history that ties them to agriculture. Some don't. But I'll guess and say that schools like Lutcher, St James, Breaux Bridge, Patterson have produced more D1 players per capita than dequincy, pineville, deridder etc.
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Post by iknownuthing on Jul 8, 2016 12:30:58 GMT -6
Not necessarily but I do believe that there is a link between agriculture, soil type, and football. I think many schools have history that ties them to agriculture. Some don't. But I'll guess and say that schools like Lutcher, St James, Breaux Bridge, Patterson have produced more D1 players per capita than dequincy, pineville, deridder etc. While I understand what your saying and that as an agrarian society, settlement followed the best areas for growth, I think it is not applicable to today. I would submit that with a more mobile society, with society and the government pushing people towards the urbanization, we will and have seen more talent consolidated into a relatively smaller geographic areas. This trend follows the perceived availability of several factors which include, economic opportunity, government social programs and mass transportation. We see poorer people flocking to Baton Rouge, New Orleans and Shreveport closer to the government center of assistance. Mid to upper income folk looking for greater economic opportunity flock to Assumption, Northshore, Lafayette and Lake Charles. This trend has pushed talent out of rural areas into metropolitan areas. Such that the "talent pool" is larger in New Orleans and Baton Rouge than say Lafayette and LC. Looking at your modern professional athletes and you lineup at LSU, more come from these areas than say Alexandria, Deridder or New Iberia. There is a commission that wants to build a local rail/metro transportation system between Acadia and Lafayette Parish. From Crowley to Lafayette. The idea is to open up a large metro type rail system to facilitate worker availability across the region. This type of development could open up the area to new migration from other rural areas which would have a major impact on athletic availability of talent due to the growth of both communities.
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Post by pinion on Jul 8, 2016 14:41:11 GMT -6
To change the subject on how schools get their athletes let's say how they got there in the first place. My background is in agriculture and through LSU, seminars, and reading I have a little knowledge and a lot of love and respect for our states agricultural background. In fact Louisiana was settled on soil types. The first settled was the rich fertile soil along the rivers. The Spanish were first with sugarcane and cotton plantations. With that was the need for labor. I don't mean to go Jimmy the Greek or re-raise the stars and bars but it is part of our history. The best of the workers went to the sugarcane plantations, the next tier went to the cotton fields. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that cutting 12 ft cane and hauling tons of it was harder than picking 3 ft cotton and hauling pounds was easier. The common denominator was wood, both plantations needed hardwood which also needed a special type of worker. The next soil type settled was the prairies, towns like Crowley, Kaplan, Jennings, and Eunice. These towns were settled after the civil war and railroads replaced the need to be on the rivers. Many of these towns were settled by mid westerners and towns were set up similar with court circles and streets leading to them. They were also many immigrants who came to America for the freedom of religion and available land. the last areas of the state settled was the poorest soil, or the piney woods areas. I think through this we can appreciate how agriculture had a huge impact on where the better football athletes come from. 1st, follow the rivers and cane and cotton plantations. Then the prairies and lastly the piney woods. I'm in agriculture as well. It's what I do at home and at work. In fact, I did a lot of genealogy research on my family a few years back. My dad's side has been farm since they came to the "colonies". rednecks for hundreds of years. ha. My mom's family, not so much. Yankee's and English aristocrats on her side.
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Post by kbanes on Jul 8, 2016 19:25:26 GMT -6
Well, just to throw a monkey wrench into this conversation, I come from Mississippi, and the Mississippi Delta has some of the most fertile farmland in the country.
Historically, there aren't any football powers located in the Mississippi Delta. The powers are spread over the state, but I can't think of one in the Delta (which might comprise 15% of the state.)
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Post by xcat on Jul 9, 2016 9:31:14 GMT -6
Well, just to throw a monkey wrench into this conversation, I come from Mississippi, and the Mississippi Delta has some of the most fertile farmland in the country. Historically, there aren't any football powers located in the Mississippi Delta. The powers are spread over the state, but I can't think of one in the Delta (which might comprise 15% of the state.) Well... Here is a list of prominent MS Delta programs that are or have been consistently pretty dang good over the years. Rosedale/West Bolivar - 5 state championships Hollandale Simmons - 2015 state champs Ruleville (previously, from 98-02 they were beast) South Delta - 19 playoff appearances in the 21 years the school has been in existence Greenwood - should be in the hunt for the 2016 championship - 33 wins in the last three seasons Clarksdale - 3 state championships South Panola - 11 state championships But I think tying dirt to athleticism is a stretch.
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Post by kbanes on Jul 9, 2016 14:44:22 GMT -6
Here is a list of prominent MS Delta programs that are or have been consistently pretty dang good over the years. Rosedale/West Bolivar - 5 state championships Hollandale Simmons - 2015 state champs Ruleville (previously, from 98-02 they were beast) South Delta - 19 playoff appearances in the 21 years the school has been in existence Greenwood - should be in the hunt for the 2016 championship - 33 wins in the last three seasons Clarksdale - 3 state championships South Panola - 11 state championships I stand corrected, Kind of. Or Maybe not. Since Mississippi went to playoff system in 1981: Rosedale/West Bolivar has 5 titles. I'll give you that one. Yes, Hollandale Simmons won the championship last year, but that is their only one. And since 81, they have had more losing seasons than winning seasons. I don't classify this as a "power". In 35 years, Ruleville has no state Championships and no runners up. They have won district 7 times and have more losing records than winning records. South Delta, while being impressive, has no state title or runner-up in their 19 years. I can't call a team a power of they don't have a single state championship. Greenwood has 2 titles in 35 years, but none since '88. Nearly as many losing years as winning years Clarksdale, with 3 titles, I can go with. South Panola, your best example, is only marginally in the delta (less than 5%?). You can drive through Panola county, and you aren't going to confuse it with the Delta. I was talking about "Powers". Nine teams have won 5 or more championships. Rosedale/West Bolivar (and South Panola?) are in the Delta. Eight teams have won 4. None are in the Delta. Nine teams have won 3. Clarksdale is the only one in the Delta. But maybe I'm just being argumentative. Maybe the difference is in my definition of "Power" and your definition of "pretty dang good". kbanes
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Post by chalmetteowl on Jul 9, 2016 16:14:38 GMT -6
Rosedale/West Bolivar - 5 state championships Hollandale Simmons - 2015 state champs Ruleville (previously, from 98-02 they were beast) South Delta - 19 playoff appearances in the 21 years the school has been in existence Greenwood - should be in the hunt for the 2016 championship - 33 wins in the last three seasons Clarksdale - 3 state championships South Panola - 11 state championships I stand corrected, Kind of. Or Maybe not. Since Mississippi went to playoff system in 1981: Rosedale/West Bolivar has 5 titles. I'll give you that one. Yes, Hollandale Simmons won the championship last year, but that is their only one. And since 81, they have had more losing seasons than winning seasons. I don't classify this as a "power". In 35 years, Ruleville has no state Championships and no runners up. They have won district 7 times and have more losing records than winning records. South Delta, while being impressive, has no state title or runner-up in their 19 years. I can't call a team a power of they don't have a single state championship. Greenwood has 2 titles in 35 years, but none since '88. Nearly as many losing years as winning years Clarksdale, with 3 titles, I can go with. South Panola, your best example, is only marginally in the delta (less than 5%?). You can drive through Panola county, and you aren't going to confuse it with the Delta. I was talking about "Powers". Nine teams have won 5 or more championships. Rosedale/West Bolivar (and South Panola?) are in the Delta. Eight teams have won 4. None are in the Delta. Nine teams have won 3. Clarksdale is the only one in the Delta. But maybe I'm just being argumentative. Maybe the difference is in my definition of "Power" and your definition of "pretty dang good". kbanes yeah Tallulah used to be a powerhouse too... its about money as much as talent... some of them places have more to worry about than high school football
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Post by xcat on Jul 9, 2016 17:37:43 GMT -6
"Historically, there aren't any football powers located in the Mississippi Delta. The powers are spread over the state, but I can't think of one in the Delta (which might comprise 15% of the state.)"
Batesville is delta - have a look at a topo map.
Cleveland, Clarksdale, Rosedale
"I was talking about "Powers".
Nine teams have won 5 or more championships. Rosedale/West Bolivar (and South Panola?) are in the Delta.
Eight teams have won 4. None are in the Delta.
Nine teams have won 3. Clarksdale is the only one in the Delta."
15% of the territory of the state and likely 15% of the population as well. What do you expect? Are you trying to prove the "dirt makes athletes" theory?
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Post by kbanes on Jul 9, 2016 19:36:19 GMT -6
I have looked at the topo map. If you are saying that the Little Tallahatchie Basin is part of the Delta, well, ok. I don't think that most people consider it to be so. If so, then the "Delta" extends all the way to Alabama.
The original premise of the thread was "agriculture had a huge impact on where the better football athletes come from. 1st, follow the rivers and cane and cotton plantations."
My point is that in Mississippi, That doesn't necessarily follow. If we assume 15% of the area (my guess) and 15% of the population (your guess) I only see 2 (3, being charitable) power programs, or programs with 3 state championships in the last 35 years. That is roughly 7% (11%).
That is using my opinion of Power programs, and my opinion of what constitutes the Delta. You are free to use your own. But since we have sucked all of the enjoyment out of a lighthearted, friendly thread, I will duck out of it.
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Post by Raven on Jul 11, 2016 8:49:21 GMT -6
I have looked at the topo map. If you are saying that the Little Tallahatchie Basin is part of the Delta, well, ok. I don't think that most people consider it to be so. If so, then the "Delta" extends all the way to Alabama. The original premise of the thread was "agriculture had a huge impact on where the better football athletes come from. 1st, follow the rivers and cane and cotton plantations." My point is that in Mississippi, That doesn't necessarily follow. If we assume 15% of the area (my guess) and 15% of the population (your guess) I only see 2 (3, being charitable) power programs, or programs with 3 state championships in the last 35 years. That is roughly 7% (11%). That is using my opinion of Power programs, and my opinion of what constitutes the Delta. You are free to use your own. But since we have sucked all of the enjoyment out of a lighthearted, friendly thread, I will duck out of it. I think the original premise was that harvesting sugar cane specifically, was more labor intensive than other crops. And that areas that grew/grow sugar cane have to be more fertile than areas that grow cotton or other crops. The MS Delta region, while fertile, was not conducive to growing sugar cane like the river parishes in South Louisiana. That stretch of the Mississippi between Baton Rouge and NOLA and some areas to the west as far as Lafayette had the best soil for growing sugar cane. It would be an interesting study in the fields of geography, genetics, history and sociology to see how and if it all ties together. On a side note, LSU has historically relied on big offensive lineman from north Louisiana because the Cajuns of (mostly) French descent typically don't get big or tall enough.
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Post by iknownuthing on Jul 11, 2016 12:13:29 GMT -6
I have looked at the topo map. If you are saying that the Little Tallahatchie Basin is part of the Delta, well, ok. I don't think that most people consider it to be so. If so, then the "Delta" extends all the way to Alabama. The original premise of the thread was "agriculture had a huge impact on where the better football athletes come from. 1st, follow the rivers and cane and cotton plantations." My point is that in Mississippi, That doesn't necessarily follow. If we assume 15% of the area (my guess) and 15% of the population (your guess) I only see 2 (3, being charitable) power programs, or programs with 3 state championships in the last 35 years. That is roughly 7% (11%). That is using my opinion of Power programs, and my opinion of what constitutes the Delta. You are free to use your own. But since we have sucked all of the enjoyment out of a lighthearted, friendly thread, I will duck out of it. I think the original premise was that harvesting sugar cane specifically, was more labor intensive than other crops. And that areas that grew/grow sugar cane have to be more fertile than areas that grow cotton or other crops. The MS Delta region, while fertile, was not conducive to growing sugar cane like the river parishes in South Louisiana. That stretch of the Mississippi between Baton Rouge and NOLA and some areas to the west as far as Lafayette had the best soil for growing sugar cane. It would be an interesting study in the fields of geography, genetics, history and sociology to see how and if it all ties together. On a side note, LSU has historically relied on big offensive lineman from north Louisiana because the Cajuns of (mostly) French descent typically don't get big or tall enough. Unless they are of German decent. Look at Notre Dame and Crowley at all the German surnames or heredity. Hoffpaur, Randazzo, Cassinova, Stelly, Pitre, Zaunbrecher, Reiners, Hensgens and Rosinski. Not your average cajun names.
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Post by LATigerFan on Jul 11, 2016 13:19:52 GMT -6
Interesting topic
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Post by indy on Jul 11, 2016 18:14:48 GMT -6
I think the original premise was that harvesting sugar cane specifically, was more labor intensive than other crops. And that areas that grew/grow sugar cane have to be more fertile than areas that grow cotton or other crops. The MS Delta region, while fertile, was not conducive to growing sugar cane like the river parishes in South Louisiana. That stretch of the Mississippi between Baton Rouge and NOLA and some areas to the west as far as Lafayette had the best soil for growing sugar cane. It would be an interesting study in the fields of geography, genetics, history and sociology to see how and if it all ties together. On a side note, LSU has historically relied on big offensive lineman from north Louisiana because the Cajuns of (mostly) French descent typically don't get big or tall enough. Unless they are of German decent. Look at Notre Dame and Crowley at all the German surnames or heredity. Hoffpaur, Randazzo, Cassinova, Stelly, Pitre, Zaunbrecher, Reiners, Hensgens and Rosinski. Not your average cajun names. Notre Dame would exist without the the Catholic German farmer immigrants. To this day they encompass over half the enrollment. We don't recruit we breed! My wife and I are second generation grads, our 9 kids are or will be 3rd. My kids have over 50 first cousins. These numbers are not uncommon. I have a nephew on the team who is a fourth generation player. He is one of six kids, his dad one of 9, his grandparents are one of 9 and 10, all ND grads.
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