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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 7:24:00 GMT -6
1) The split, as is, is a compromise. 2) Class C will likely NOT vote for this. 3) The perception is 5A and 4A will overwhelmingly vote for this. Although the majority MAY vote for it, it will not be "overwhelming".
Overall, I personally dont think its a bad thing. I also dont think its much different from what you have already, it simply passed the buck and allows the select schools in the metro areas to ONCE AGAIN, compare their successes to the local public school in order to entice movement for strictly athletic purposes. This idea addresses some issues, creates others.
9 football championships to 8 = That "un-waters" us down? According to pundits, we are SOOOOOO watered down B and C together- C will NEVER vote for this. What makes MUCH more sense is to do away with B entirely and put all class B school into class A (they are the same enrollment size bracket, B simply does not play football)
Split is bad, this split is good = Ok, if you think so. Really not much difference
What is different is the fact that the Apples and Oranges has been brought to the forefront (as it has in the other 29 states who are currently dealing with this same issue).
Its like a car deal boys. We shoot high, you shoot low, little bit of negotiations, and then we make the sale. WINNING!!!
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Post by chalmetteowl on Apr 15, 2016 12:17:40 GMT -6
1) The split, as is, is a compromise. 2) Class C will likely NOT vote for this. 3) The perception is 5A and 4A will overwhelmingly vote for this. Although the majority MAY vote for it, it will not be "overwhelming". Overall, I personally dont think its a bad thing. I also dont think its much different from what you have already, it simply passed the buck and allows the select schools in the metro areas to ONCE AGAIN, compare their successes to the local public school in order to entice movement for strictly athletic purposes. This idea addresses some issues, creates others. 9 football championships to 8 = That "un-waters" us down? According to pundits, we are SOOOOOO watered down B and C together- C will NEVER vote for this. What makes MUCH more sense is to do away with B entirely and put all class B school into class A (they are the same enrollment size bracket, B simply does not play football) Split is bad, this split is good = Ok, if you think so. Really not much difference What is different is the fact that the Apples and Oranges has been brought to the forefront (as it has in the other 29 states who are currently dealing with this same issue). Its like a car deal boys. We shoot high, you shoot low, little bit of negotiations, and then we make the sale. WINNING!!! the split is most definitely NOT a compromise... it came from nothing, and some principals decided "we need to do this". Select schools resisted, but non-select had the votes, and it was done. Now we have a job to build support for this compromise. I will recommend that we vote for it, but I'm not who votes for our school.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 12:23:03 GMT -6
Absolutely was a compromise. The original discussion, was a complete split, all sports, regular season included. You werent at the meeting. I was.
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Post by chalmetteowl on Apr 15, 2016 16:25:51 GMT -6
Absolutely was a compromise. The original discussion, was a complete split, all sports, regular season included. You werent at the meeting. I was. let me guess, that went too far for some to vote on it... hence why yall are incrementally trying to get to that point
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Post by Brad on Apr 17, 2016 8:00:45 GMT -6
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Post by chalmetteowl on Apr 17, 2016 9:05:14 GMT -6
the Catholic League needs to get over themselves if that article is any indication. This is the best deal we'll get
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Post by btown on Apr 17, 2016 10:16:41 GMT -6
the Catholic League needs to get over themselves if that article is any indication. This is the best deal we'll get They would not let them vote on the split by class during the January meeting, said it was against the constitution of the LHSAA. So what is the difference in suggesting that 5A and 4A go back to together, that is by class. Let each class vote on what they want to do. This shows how poor our leadership is in LHSAA, you cannot do it then but now you can, WOW.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2016 13:20:20 GMT -6
the Catholic League needs to get over themselves if that article is any indication. This is the best deal we'll get They would not let them vote on the split by class during the January meeting, said it was against the constitution of the LHSAA. So what is the difference in suggesting that 5A and 4A go back to together, that is by class. Let each class vote on what they want to do. This shows how poor our leadership is in LHSAA, you cannot do it then but now you can, WOW. Bonine had his parliamentarian rule in whatever way helps him. That's pretty clear.
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Post by btown on Apr 17, 2016 13:32:01 GMT -6
They would not let them vote on the split by class during the January meeting, said it was against the constitution of the LHSAA. So what is the difference in suggesting that 5A and 4A go back to together, that is by class. Let each class vote on what they want to do. This shows how poor our leadership is in LHSAA, you cannot do it then but now you can, WOW. Bonine had his parliamentarian rule in whatever way helps him. That's pretty clear. So is he leading and guiding or is he trying to be a dictatore?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2016 13:56:49 GMT -6
Bonine had his parliamentarian rule in whatever way helps him. That's pretty clear. So is he leading and guiding or is he trying to be a dictatore? Just hired a guy who will rule how he wants him to. He's a private school guy.
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laprepfb
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Post by laprepfb on Apr 18, 2016 5:09:15 GMT -6
So is he leading and guiding or is he trying to be a dictatore? Just hired a guy who will rule how he wants him to. He's a private school guy. Wrong once again. The parliamentarian is the superintendent of a rural parish with zero private schools - the exact profile of most of the hardest core split proponents.
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Post by btown on Apr 18, 2016 5:52:55 GMT -6
Just hired a guy who will rule how he wants him to. He's a private school guy. Wrong once again. The parliamentarian is the superintendent of a rural parish with zero private schools - the exact profile of most of the hardest core split proponents. Wrong once again. May not have private schools in his parish, but he is a yes man. Blows where the wind blows him.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 6:47:03 GMT -6
Wrong once again. The parliamentarian is the superintendent of a rural parish with zero private schools - the exact profile of most of the hardest core split proponents. Wrong once again. May not have private schools in his parish, but he is a yes man. Blows where the wind blows him. 100% absolutely correct. LOVES to hear himself talk. EC is NOT happy with him either. Bonine needs to go before anything positive for the association can be done. Lejune along with him. Both have tried to issue Quasi Executive orders at different times, using the other for "backup" There is no trust in leadership.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 6:55:15 GMT -6
The point he makes, that rings LOUD and CLEAR, is that the entire rhetoric of "Lets do whats best for the association" is a bunch of kaka, crap, dodo, junk. Schools and principals (as well as AD's and Coaches) are doing whats best for their kids and their schools. If they are not, then they are derelict in their duties! The task of the LHSAA (or any organization) is to put together a plan that facilitates the needs of all, or the at least the majority, of those involved, as long as it does not harm the minority. Still, to this day, the minority (select enrollment schools) have not nor can they show they have been "harmed" in any way. Now, with that being said, do I believe that the "split" as it has become known, is the absolute best solution? NO, NO, NO!!! However, it, for the first time, has show the anger of the schools that have been beat on for the last 40 years by an evermore growing population of schools that refuse to live by the spirit and intent of the rules. When I say this, I absolutely include a segment of the non-select population as well! We MUST come up with a simple, concise, common sense approach, that indentifies, and seperates schools that refuse to live by the intent of fair competition. IMO, we are making this way to complicated. There is always a simplistic approach that works best. I do believe we will find it, but until then, this discourse and "battle" as it were, is both healthy and necessary!
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Post by eag on Apr 18, 2016 8:21:22 GMT -6
The point he makes, that rings LOUD and CLEAR, is that the entire rhetoric of "Lets do whats best for the association" is a bunch of kaka, crap, dodo, junk. Schools and principals (as well as AD's and Coaches) are doing whats best for their kids and their schools. If they are not, then they are derelict in their duties! The task of the LHSAA (or any organization) is to put together a plan that facilitates the needs of all, or the at least the majority, of those involved, as long as it does not harm the minority. Still, to this day, the minority (select enrollment schools) have not nor can they show they have been "harmed" in any way.
Of course it can be shown. What your side keeps saying is 'everyone can still play football and compete for a championship'. Well, of course they can. They could before the split too. So if that is the only argument for harm, then no one was harmed before the split either. The split was necessary because something had to be done due to competitive imbalances. Most public schools couldn't compete with the private schools who use rule advantages to field inordinately talented and well-funded teams. The thing is, a lot of private schools are in the same boat. But now, they have it even worse than did any school before the split simply due to numbers. They now play in divisions that have a far higher percentage of these outlier schools. Look at the bottom half of the private brackets and you will see who this current plan hurts. Bottom line, if Many cannot handle Riverside on the field, how can Hannan or Northlake be expected to do so? Many would wipe the field with either of those schools most years. Those schools have been harmed as they now must compete vs Riverside et al, guaranteed, every year, in rd 1 of the playoffs. They will NEVER play an equivalent school in the playoffs. Ever. That is a situation that is even worse than it was before the split. Now, with that being said, do I believe that the "split" as it has become known, is the absolute best solution? NO, NO, NO!!! However, it, for the first time, has show the anger of the schools that have been beat on for the last 40 years by an evermore growing population of schools that refuse to live by the spirit and intent of the rules. When I say this, I absolutely include a segment of the non-select population as well!
We MUST come up with a simple, concise, common sense approach, that indentifies, and seperates schools that refuse to live by the intent of fair competition. IMO, we are making this way to complicated. There is always a simplistic approach that works best. I do believe we will find it, but until then, this discourse and "battle" as it were, is both healthy and necessary!
I thank you for being able to say this. This is the attitude needed in order to try to fix things in a better way.
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Post by deadman318 on Apr 18, 2016 8:58:29 GMT -6
The point he makes, that rings LOUD and CLEAR, is that the entire rhetoric of "Lets do whats best for the association" is a bunch of kaka, crap, dodo, junk. Schools and principals (as well as AD's and Coaches) are doing whats best for their kids and their schools. If they are not, then they are derelict in their duties! The task of the LHSAA (or any organization) is to put together a plan that facilitates the needs of all, or the at least the majority, of those involved, as long as it does not harm the minority. Still, to this day, the minority (select enrollment schools) have not nor can they show they have been "harmed" in any way.
Of course it can be shown. What your side keeps saying is 'everyone can still play football and compete for a championship'. Well, of course they can. They could before the split too. So if that is the only argument for harm, then no one was harmed before the split either. The split was necessary because something had to be done due to competitive imbalances. Most public schools couldn't compete with the private schools who use rule advantages to field inordinately talented and well-funded teams. The thing is, a lot of private schools are in the same boat. But now, they have it even worse than did any school before the split simply due to numbers. They now play in divisions that have a far higher percentage of these outlier schools. Look at the bottom half of the private brackets and you will see who this current plan hurts. Bottom line, if Many cannot handle Riverside on the field, how can Hannan or Northlake be expected to do so? Many would wipe the field with either of those schools most years. Those schools have been harmed as they now must compete vs Riverside et al, guaranteed, every year, in rd 1 of the playoffs. They will NEVER play an equivalent school in the playoffs. Ever. That is a situation that is even worse than it was before the split. Now, with that being said, do I believe that the "split" as it has become known, is the absolute best solution? NO, NO, NO!!! However, it, for the first time, has show the anger of the schools that have been beat on for the last 40 years by an evermore growing population of schools that refuse to live by the spirit and intent of the rules. When I say this, I absolutely include a segment of the non-select population as well!
We MUST come up with a simple, concise, common sense approach, that indentifies, and seperates schools that refuse to live by the intent of fair competition. IMO, we are making this way to complicated. There is always a simplistic approach that works best. I do believe we will find it, but until then, this discourse and "battle" as it were, is both healthy and necessary!
I thank you for being able to say this. This is the attitude needed in order to try to fix things in a better way.Bottom line... The non-selects have the votes and the selects do not... We'll never get back together... Well, maybe never... Actually, Div III in the select bracket could be argued as the most competetive bracket with Notre Dame, Riverside, Calvary Baptist, OCS, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Charles and Madison Prep. You also have Dunham, Episcopal, and Newman in that bracket as well and they aren't chumps by any stretch of the imagination.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 9:16:07 GMT -6
Bottom line... The non-selects have the votes and the selects do not... We'll never get back together... Well, maybe never... Actually, Div III in the select bracket could be argued as the most competetive bracket with Notre Dame, Riverside, Calvary Baptist, OCS, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Charles and Madison Prep. You also have Dunham, Episcopal, and Newman in that bracket as well and they aren't chumps by any stretch of the imagination. Then select schools need to STOP siding with KNOWN offenders of the spirit of the rules simply because they are also select!!! IF select schools who attempt to play by the intent of the rules, will stop being the little B-boys of the Athletic Factories, we may could get something done!!! Strength is in numbers! Join ours and lets EXPOSE those schools, select or non select, that choose to CHEAT
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Post by iknownuthing on Apr 18, 2016 9:23:30 GMT -6
1) The split, as is, is a compromise. 2) Class C will likely NOT vote for this. 3) The perception is 5A and 4A will overwhelmingly vote for this. Although the majority MAY vote for it, it will not be "overwhelming". Overall, I personally dont think its a bad thing. I also dont think its much different from what you have already, it simply passed the buck and allows the select schools in the metro areas to ONCE AGAIN, compare their successes to the local public school in order to entice movement for strictly athletic purposes. This idea addresses some issues, creates others. 9 football championships to 8 = That "un-waters" us down? According to pundits, we are SOOOOOO watered down B and C together- C will NEVER vote for this. What makes MUCH more sense is to do away with B entirely and put all class B school into class A (they are the same enrollment size bracket, B simply does not play football) Split is bad, this split is good = Ok, if you think so. Really not much difference What is different is the fact that the Apples and Oranges has been brought to the forefront (as it has in the other 29 states who are currently dealing with this same issue). Its like a car deal boys. We shoot high, you shoot low, little bit of negotiations, and then we make the sale. WINNING!!! the split is most definitely NOT a compromise... it came from nothing, and some principals decided "we need to do this". Select schools resisted, but non-select had the votes, and it was done. Now we have a job to build support for this compromise. I will recommend that we vote for it, but I'm not who votes for our school. My prediction is that this will fail again. Even without the vote of the Catholic Schools, those vested in an entire split all sports all classes are not going to go for this plan. If it fails, it will be because B, C, A, AA and AAA public schools will all vote it down and there are enough votes there for a simple majority. Many Private schools in those classes will also vote against the plan. Unfortunately or fortunately depending on your view point, there has been too many lies, too much distortion and too much distrust for private schools to EVER believe that the LHSAA will do the right thing again. Larger 3A schools who go up and down from time to time in class to 4A, will not vote for this. Noncompetitive 4A schools will not vote for this because they do not want to play the private schools. Even some 5A schools particularly in North LA and of course Lafayette High school will vote this down. So my prediction is it will not pass. Too little too late.
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Post by deadman318 on Apr 18, 2016 9:26:54 GMT -6
Bottom line... The non-selects have the votes and the selects do not... We'll never get back together... Well, maybe never... Actually, Div III in the select bracket could be argued as the most competetive bracket with Notre Dame, Riverside, Calvary Baptist, OCS, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Charles and Madison Prep. You also have Dunham, Episcopal, and Newman in that bracket as well and they aren't chumps by any stretch of the imagination. Then select schools need to STOP siding with KNOWN offenders of the spirit of the rules simply because they are also select!!! IF select schools who attempt to play by the intent of the rules, will stop being the little B-boys of the Athletic Factories, we may could get something done!!! Strength is in numbers! Join ours and lets EXPOSE those schools, select or non select, that choose to CHEAT This is Louisiana. We'll never (well, maybe never) go back to the way it is... Besides... I like Div III the way it is... Everybody wants to see a Calvary Baptist - Notre Dame rematch this year...
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Post by eag on Apr 18, 2016 10:01:04 GMT -6
Bottom line... The non-selects have the votes and the selects do not... We'll never get back together... Well, maybe never... Actually, Div III in the select bracket could be argued as the most competetive bracket with Notre Dame, Riverside, Calvary Baptist, OCS, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Charles and Madison Prep. You also have Dunham, Episcopal, and Newman in that bracket as well and they aren't chumps by any stretch of the imagination. Then select schools need to STOP siding with KNOWN offenders of the spirit of the rules simply because they are also select!!! IF select schools who attempt to play by the intent of the rules, will stop being the little B-boys of the Athletic Factories, we may could get something done!!! Strength is in numbers! Join ours and lets EXPOSE those schools, select or non select, that choose to CHEAT How do you propose this be done? Most of these schools would have jumped all over a proposal like the one Indiana uses or the type of thing Raven and others have put up on here. But the only option they have been presented is split or stay same. I know that my personal attitude is kind of a prevalent one among private school supporters -- I don't think we need to split and don't care if JC wins every championship. I know who they are and why they win. So they tend to vote not to split. BUT, if we are going to say that SOME schools don't have to contend with them then that separation needs to be fair and needs to include all types of schools. I know our principal voted against split, but I think would be very open to a success metric type deal.
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Post by iknownuthing on Apr 18, 2016 10:06:14 GMT -6
How do you propose this be done? Most of these schools would have jumped all over a proposal like the one Indiana uses or the type of thing Raven and others have put up on here. But the only option they have been presented is split or stay same. I know that my personal attitude is kind of a prevalent one among private school supporters -- I don't think we need to split and don't care if JC wins every championship. I know who they are and why they win. So they tend to vote not to split. BUT, if we are going to say that SOME schools don't have to contend with them then that separation needs to be fair and needs to include all types of schools. I know our principal voted against split, but I think would be very open to a success metric type deal. JC has not won a state championship since they were allowed to move up (required) to the top division.
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Post by eag on Apr 18, 2016 10:22:15 GMT -6
How do you propose this be done? Most of these schools would have jumped all over a proposal like the one Indiana uses or the type of thing Raven and others have put up on here. But the only option they have been presented is split or stay same. I know that my personal attitude is kind of a prevalent one among private school supporters -- I don't think we need to split and don't care if JC wins every championship. I know who they are and why they win. So they tend to vote not to split. BUT, if we are going to say that SOME schools don't have to contend with them then that separation needs to be fair and needs to include all types of schools. I know our principal voted against split, but I think would be very open to a success metric type deal. JC has not won a state championship since they were allowed to move up (required) to the top division. I know. Somehow this isn't good enough for the split guys. They need to get rid of Sacred Heart, Hannan, Vanderbilt, EDW, Hannan, Northlake, St Fred's, St Michaels, Menard, Ecole Classique, Catholic of PC, etc, etc,. Good, decently competitive programs with no history of lopsided success.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 11:04:56 GMT -6
Here is my proposal
If any school, public or private, funds/stipends tuition to any student in that school, no matter if they play athletics or not, then said school will play in a select bracket both regular season and playoffs.
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Post by iknownuthing on Apr 19, 2016 8:06:17 GMT -6
Here is my proposal If any school, public or private, funds/stipends tuition to any student in that school, no matter if they play athletics or not, then said school will play in a select bracket both regular season and playoffs. Then by your very own standard EVERY public school which funds/stipends tuition to EVERY student that attends, in EVERY parish and EVERY city in the State of Louisiana. By multiple source, Federal, State and local taxation, it is unanimous.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 8:38:20 GMT -6
Nope. Taxpayers are not exempt from taxes because their child attends a private school. That is a choice. Taxes are not
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Post by iknownuthing on Apr 19, 2016 10:40:48 GMT -6
Nope. Taxpayers are not exempt from taxes because their child attends a private school. That is a choice. Taxes are not So we really should call private schools, "Schools of Choice" and not "Select", your apposed to the "choice" parents make.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 11:18:00 GMT -6
Nope. Taxpayers are not exempt from taxes because their child attends a private school. That is a choice. Taxes are not So we really should call private schools, "Schools of Choice" and not "Select", your apposed to the "choice" parents make. Nope, not opposed to choice at all. I am a choice kid myself. You can call it what you want, but the truth is not only do the parents "choose" the school, a select school has the right of refusal. Hence lies the issue!!
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Post by iknownuthing on Apr 20, 2016 7:34:37 GMT -6
Nope. Taxpayers are not exempt from taxes because their child attends a private school. That is a choice. Taxes are not Then private schools should be exempt too, because they pay taxes too. But more importantly, they pay to be in the LHSAA which has discriminated against them.
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Post by eag on Apr 20, 2016 7:59:37 GMT -6
Nope. Taxpayers are not exempt from taxes because their child attends a private school. That is a choice. Taxes are not Then private schools should be exempt too, because they pay taxes too. But more importantly, they pay to be in the LHSAA which has discriminated against them.This cannot be emphasized enough. The smaller, non-factory private schools are being hung out to dry by their supposed partners. That is a huge issue. It truly is like tripping up your friend because neither of you can outrun the bear. Saving yourself at someone elses expense is not the way to have a successful organization.
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Post by iknownuthing on Apr 20, 2016 8:29:54 GMT -6
Then private schools should be exempt too, because they pay taxes too. But more importantly, they pay to be in the LHSAA which has discriminated against them.This cannot be emphasized enough. The smaller, non-factory private schools are being hung out to dry by their supposed partners. That is a huge issue. It truly is like tripping up your friend because neither of you can outrun the bear. Saving yourself at someone elses expense is not the way to have a successful organization. Now your just trying to develop a schism that is just not there, it is typical of what public schools do. They did it to the small public and private schools when they voted to play in class and force JC and e down to 2A and 1A and they are doing it again forcing them out of the championships. The play in class rule was championed by specifically, Ruston High, W. Monroe and the 5A schools in Shreveport. The relationship between small and large private schools is not in anyway strained, and it is the small schools that have been hurt the most by the vote of the public school principals to split all sports. I assure you there is more unity in the private sector on this. If not for the Arch Bishop, the new organization would have come about 3 years ago, but he wanted the opportunity to try and resolve the issues. Now there has been too much animosity, bitterness and prejudice within the public school principals to ever overcome a complete split. It may be too late to ever put Humpty Dumpty back together again. It will go down as a suicide. From a private school position, how can any school, magnet or charter included, remain in an association that is bent on your demise and utter destruction. Any "select" school that stays within the LHSAA with a complete championship split, will either be expect to always lose or face more discrimination. There can be no trust with the public school snakes that reside in the bottom rung, the pit that has become the LHSAA.
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