|
Post by eag on Apr 20, 2016 11:23:18 GMT -6
This cannot be emphasized enough. The smaller, non-factory private schools are being hung out to dry by their supposed partners. That is a huge issue. It truly is like tripping up your friend because neither of you can outrun the bear. Saving yourself at someone elses expense is not the way to have a successful organization. Now your just trying to develop a schism that is just not there, it is typical of what public schools do. They did it to the small public and private schools when they voted to play in class and force JC and e down to 2A and 1A and they are doing it again forcing them out of the championships. The play in class rule was championed by specifically, Ruston High, W. Monroe and the 5A schools in Shreveport. The relationship between small and large private schools is not in anyway strained, and it is the small schools that have been hurt the most by the vote of the public school principals to split all sports. I assure you there is more unity in the private sector on this. If not for the Arch Bishop, the new organization would have come about 3 years ago, but he wanted the opportunity to try and resolve the issues. Now there has been too much animosity, bitterness and prejudice within the public school principals to ever overcome a complete split. It may be too late to ever put Humpty Dumpty back together again. It will go down as a suicide. From a private school position, how can any school, magnet or charter included, remain in an association that is bent on your demise and utter destruction. Any "select" school that stays within the LHSAA with a complete championship split, will either be expect to always lose or face more discrimination. There can be no trust with the public school snakes that reside in the bottom rung, the pit that has become the LHSAA. I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I do not mean there is a rift among private schools. I mean the public schools that got tired of not being competitive with powerhouse private schools solved the problem without any concern at all about the smaller privates who were also not competitive with the powers. The 'partners' I referred to above were LHSAA members. I suppose my comment wasn't terribly relevant to the post I quoted. I just see the part I highlighted as a big problem with the split, and I do see it as a reason that private schools may be better off in a new organization. If the public schools don't see ALL member schools as individuals and create policy that way instead of lumping schools together by superficial characteristics, there is no hope for small private schools.
|
|
|
Post by deadman318 on Apr 20, 2016 12:08:32 GMT -6
As far as the rural metro split I am interested to see which one they classify Notre Dame as... If they are rural (which they should be since they are nowhere near anything metro) you can forget a pretty awesome match-up with Calvary Baptist...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 10:32:51 GMT -6
Then private schools should be exempt too, because they pay taxes too. But more importantly, they pay to be in the LHSAA which has discriminated against them.This cannot be emphasized enough. The smaller, non-factory private schools are being hung out to dry by their supposed partners. That is a huge issue. It truly is like tripping up your friend because neither of you can outrun the bear. Saving yourself at someone elses expense is not the way to have a successful organization. I'm not disagreeing, but where was all this concern with the Lasalles, and Tensas's of the world were having to deal with the same issues? If NOTHING else, the split has brought attention to the fact that Integrity among many schools and their administrations, is weak!!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 10:34:27 GMT -6
Nope. Taxpayers are not exempt from taxes because their child attends a private school. That is a choice. Taxes are not Then private schools should be exempt too, because they pay taxes too. But more importantly, they pay to be in the LHSAA which has discriminated against them. Volunteer organization. Take your ball and go play elsewhere. No discrimination. None at all. Comparing this to discrimination, or the Holocaust (which have both been done) is insulting and racist to the all involved..
|
|
|
Post by eag on Apr 21, 2016 11:05:58 GMT -6
This cannot be emphasized enough. The smaller, non-factory private schools are being hung out to dry by their supposed partners. That is a huge issue. It truly is like tripping up your friend because neither of you can outrun the bear. Saving yourself at someone elses expense is not the way to have a successful organization. I'm not disagreeing, but where was all this concern with the Lasalles, and Tensas's of the world were having to deal with the same issues? If NOTHING else, the split has brought attention to the fact that Integrity among many schools and their administrations, is weak!!! Was the issue being dealt with by Lasalle different from the one being dealt with by Ecole Classique? I'd say they were the same. I'm only one guy, but I can say my personal attitude was that there were some schools out there that no one could beat but that it just was what it was. No, most public schools couldn't beat them, but neither could most privates. It only became an issue to me when it became a movement to separate schools. If you are gonna do that, no way in heck Lasalle deserves protection that EC does not. Heck, definitely no way Many(for example)deserves protection that, say, Hannan does not. Many has a much better program than many private schools
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 12:34:45 GMT -6
I'm not disagreeing, but where was all this concern with the Lasalles, and Tensas's of the world were having to deal with the same issues? If NOTHING else, the split has brought attention to the fact that Integrity among many schools and their administrations, is weak!!! Was the issue being dealt with by Lasalle different from the one being dealt with by Ecole Classique? I'd say they were the same. I'm only one guy, but I can say my personal attitude was that there were some schools out there that no one could beat but that it just was what it was. No, most public schools couldn't beat them, but neither could most privates. It only became an issue to me when it became a movement to separate schools. If you are gonna do that, no way in heck Lasalle deserves protection that EC does not. Heck, definitely no way Many(for example)deserves protection that, say, Hannan does not. Many has a much better program than many private schools This rule "protects" no one. It simply classifys schools based on how they attain, deny, and retain enrollment. Simple concept. Undeniable.
|
|
|
Post by eag on Apr 21, 2016 13:09:33 GMT -6
Was the issue being dealt with by Lasalle different from the one being dealt with by Ecole Classique? I'd say they were the same. I'm only one guy, but I can say my personal attitude was that there were some schools out there that no one could beat but that it just was what it was. No, most public schools couldn't beat them, but neither could most privates. It only became an issue to me when it became a movement to separate schools. If you are gonna do that, no way in heck Lasalle deserves protection that EC does not. Heck, definitely no way Many(for example)deserves protection that, say, Hannan does not. Many has a much better program than many private schools This rule "protects" no one. It simply classifys schools based on how they attain, deny, and retain enrollment. Simple concept. Undeniable. But the REASON for the rule has to do with competition. Undeniable. No public school would have pushed for this if all the privates played sub-par sports, or even if the success was on the level of a Hannan, EDWhite, or Menard. You can say all you want that it is about how students are obtained, but it is not that specifically. It is that the obtaining of students is now resulting in quite a few schools becoming too consistently good. No one would care how the kids got there if they all sucked. The solution, however, is not using competition as a criteria at all.
|
|
|
Post by Raven on Apr 21, 2016 15:16:58 GMT -6
This rule "protects" no one. It simply classifys schools based on how they attain, deny, and retain enrollment. Simple concept. Undeniable. But the REASON for the rule has to do with competition. Undeniable. No public school would have pushed for this if all the privates played sub-par sports, or even if the success was on the level of a Hannan, EDWhite, or Menard. You can say all you want that it is about how students are obtained, but it is not that specifically. It is that the obtaining of students is now resulting in quite a few schools becoming too consistently good. No one would care how the kids got there if they all sucked. The solution, however, is not using competition as a criteria at all. eag, you have to realize that bob doesn't understand the difference between putting schools in classes for competition and segregating schools based on enrollment practices. If the LHSAA were to use how schools get and keep their students as a means of classification, with districts made up of all schools in that class and all schools in that class being eligible for the same playoffs that would be fine. I would have no problem with that. The split playoffs don't do that. They lump all select schools together even when most of them are more like the regular public schools than they are like the "factories" (schools that emphasize athletics). If you want to say select schools have an advantage then use that status as way to modify their enrollment. Multipliers have been used in other states and bob is partially correct when he says they have not worked. What he means is that it has not prevented the same private powerhouse programs in those states from continuing to win championships. It has, however, reduced the percentage of private schools making the playoffs in those states. If you want to say some select schools use that advantage to better their sports teams, then use that as an additional way to modify their enrollment. This is where the success factor comes in and if used in conjunction with a multiplier (which has not been done in most other states, they typically use one method or the other) would push exceptional select schools up automatically even when they don't elect to play up on their own. Finally, if you want to say that some select schools deserve to be placed in the top classification due to their history of success on the field then you can do that too. btowns suggestion of using a committee to place teams in a higher classification, even when the first two modifiers don't push them up far enough would basically guarantee that select schools who use their advantage and place an extra emphasis on their sports programs would be at least 2, maybe 3 classes above their normal enrollment while the smaller select schools that don't have the powerful athletic programs would just be hit with the multiplier and would be at most 1 classification higher than their natural enrollment. The very small schools like Ecole Classique and Ridgewood would likely remain in 1A because even the multiplier would not give them 2A numbers. Any and all means to modify enrollments numbers should and can be used to level the playing field. Just because it's more work for the LHSAA, doesn't mean it can't be done.
|
|
|
Post by eag on Apr 21, 2016 16:39:37 GMT -6
But the REASON for the rule has to do with competition. Undeniable. No public school would have pushed for this if all the privates played sub-par sports, or even if the success was on the level of a Hannan, EDWhite, or Menard. You can say all you want that it is about how students are obtained, but it is not that specifically. It is that the obtaining of students is now resulting in quite a few schools becoming too consistently good. No one would care how the kids got there if they all sucked. The solution, however, is not using competition as a criteria at all. eag, you have to realize that bob doesn't understand the difference between putting schools in classes for competition and segregating schools based on enrollment practices. If the LHSAA were to use how schools get and keep their students as a means of classification, with districts made up of all schools in that class and all schools in that class being eligible for the same playoffs that would be fine. I would have no problem with that. The split playoffs don't do that. They lump all select schools together even when most of them are more like the regular public schools than they are like the "factories" (schools that emphasize athletics). If you want to say select schools have an advantage then use that status as way to modify their enrollment. Multipliers have been used in other states and bob is partially correct when he says they have not worked. What he means is that it has not prevented the same private powerhouse programs in those states from continuing to win championships. It has, however, reduced the percentage of private schools making the playoffs in those states. If you want to say some select schools use that advantage to better their sports teams, then use that as an additional way to modify their enrollment. This is where the success factor comes in and if used in conjunction with a multiplier (which has not been done in most other states, they typically use one method or the other) would push exceptional select schools up automatically even when they don't elect to play up on their own. Finally, if you want to say that some select schools deserve to be placed in the top classification due to their history of success on the field then you can do that too. btowns suggestion of using a committee to place teams in a higher classification, even when the first two modifiers don't push them up far enough would basically guarantee that select schools who use their advantage and place an extra emphasis on their sports programs would be at least 2, maybe 3 classes above their normal enrollment while the smaller select schools that don't have the powerful athletic programs would just be hit with the multiplier and would be at most 1 classification higher than their natural enrollment. The very small schools like Ecole Classique and Ridgewood would likely remain in 1A because even the multiplier would not give them 2A numbers. Any and all means to modify enrollments numbers should and can be used to level the playing field. Just because it's more work for the LHSAA, doesn't mean it can't be done. To all: This is what an intelligent, well thought out dialogue looks like. Everyone may not agree with Raven's ideas, but he has addressed concerns and offered solutions for each of them. Folks like this should be in charge of the process. We would be in much better shape if that were the case, whatever we would eventually end up with.
|
|
|
Post by iknownuthing on Apr 22, 2016 7:42:31 GMT -6
Now your just trying to develop a schism that is just not there, it is typical of what public schools do. They did it to the small public and private schools when they voted to play in class and force JC and e down to 2A and 1A and they are doing it again forcing them out of the championships. The play in class rule was championed by specifically, Ruston High, W. Monroe and the 5A schools in Shreveport. The relationship between small and large private schools is not in anyway strained, and it is the small schools that have been hurt the most by the vote of the public school principals to split all sports. I assure you there is more unity in the private sector on this. If not for the Arch Bishop, the new organization would have come about 3 years ago, but he wanted the opportunity to try and resolve the issues. Now there has been too much animosity, bitterness and prejudice within the public school principals to ever overcome a complete split. It may be too late to ever put Humpty Dumpty back together again. It will go down as a suicide. From a private school position, how can any school, magnet or charter included, remain in an association that is bent on your demise and utter destruction. Any "select" school that stays within the LHSAA with a complete championship split, will either be expect to always lose or face more discrimination. There can be no trust with the public school snakes that reside in the bottom rung, the pit that has become the LHSAA. I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I do not mean there is a rift among private schools. I mean the public schools that got tired of not being competitive with powerhouse private schools solved the problem without any concern at all about the smaller privates who were also not competitive with the powers. The 'partners' I referred to above were LHSAA members. I suppose my comment wasn't terribly relevant to the post I quoted. I just see the part I highlighted as a big problem with the split, and I do see it as a reason that private schools may be better off in a new organization. If the public schools don't see ALL member schools as individuals and create policy that way instead of lumping schools together by superficial characteristics, there is no hope for small private schools. Ok, I agree with you and see what you meant. But you left out that the large public schools created the problem and hung out the small public schools when they voted to force e and big JC into class.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 8:35:05 GMT -6
I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I do not mean there is a rift among private schools. I mean the public schools that got tired of not being competitive with powerhouse private schools solved the problem without any concern at all about the smaller privates who were also not competitive with the powers. The 'partners' I referred to above were LHSAA members. I suppose my comment wasn't terribly relevant to the post I quoted. I just see the part I highlighted as a big problem with the split, and I do see it as a reason that private schools may be better off in a new organization. If the public schools don't see ALL member schools as individuals and create policy that way instead of lumping schools together by superficial characteristics, there is no hope for small private schools. Ok, I agree with you and see what you meant. But you left out that the large public schools created the problem and hung out the small public schools when they voted to force e and big JC into class. For the 1,000,000,000,000,000 time, this is NOT just about JC and Evangel.
|
|
|
Post by iknownuthing on Apr 27, 2016 9:07:55 GMT -6
No, it is about getting rid of all private schools. You think that if they are not in the LHSAA they will all close down and be non factors. The private schools will never go away in LA, there will be more and more charters and more and more new private schools. Public education has become and abomination in almost EVERY parish. I know there are a few good parishes, but the problem is that there are only a few and it will only get worst in the next 10 years until the traditional public school will be the minority while Charters and Private schools dominate. Just look at Orleans parish and how closing the traditional public schools has turned educational quality there. We are moving to neighborhood charter schools located within cities and a single public school in most parishes with the exception of the large metropolitan areas, They will have multiple public schools but fewer than exist today.
But you are also wrong on this point. We would not be having this discussion if the 5A and 4A schools in North Louisiana had not pushed to force e and JC to play in class size. 1A and 2A private and public schools across the state had no problems playing each other. Once this was done, it became a self fulfilling prophecy.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 9:31:12 GMT -6
No, it is about getting rid of all private schools. You think that if they are not in the LHSAA they will all close down and be non factors. The private schools will never go away in LA, there will be more and more charters and more and more new private schools. Public education has become and abomination in almost EVERY parish. I know there are a few good parishes, but the problem is that there are only a few and it will only get worst in the next 10 years until the traditional public school will be the minority while Charters and Private schools dominate. Just look at Orleans parish and how closing the traditional public schools has turned educational quality there. We are moving to neighborhood charter schools located within cities and a single public school in most parishes with the exception of the large metropolitan areas, They will have multiple public schools but fewer than exist today. But you are also wrong on this point. We would not be having this discussion if the 5A and 4A schools in North Louisiana had not pushed to force e and JC to play in class size. 1A and 2A private and public schools across the state had no problems playing each other. Once this was done, it became a self fulfilling prophecy. Nope, I'm not wrong. Its MUCH more than just those two schools. Public education woes...............true, as long as one group of schools get to select their enrollment, and another group does not, there will always be differences. Which brings us right back to the very reason for different playoff brackets. Move on. Its over.
|
|
|
Post by iknownuthing on Apr 27, 2016 10:42:29 GMT -6
No, it is about getting rid of all private schools. You think that if they are not in the LHSAA they will all close down and be non factors. The private schools will never go away in LA, there will be more and more charters and more and more new private schools. Public education has become and abomination in almost EVERY parish. I know there are a few good parishes, but the problem is that there are only a few and it will only get worst in the next 10 years until the traditional public school will be the minority while Charters and Private schools dominate. Just look at Orleans parish and how closing the traditional public schools has turned educational quality there. We are moving to neighborhood charter schools located within cities and a single public school in most parishes with the exception of the large metropolitan areas, They will have multiple public schools but fewer than exist today. But you are also wrong on this point. We would not be having this discussion if the 5A and 4A schools in North Louisiana had not pushed to force e and JC to play in class size. 1A and 2A private and public schools across the state had no problems playing each other. Once this was done, it became a self fulfilling prophecy. Nope, I'm not wrong. Its MUCH more than just those two schools. Public education woes...............true, as long as one group of schools get to select their enrollment, and another group does not, there will always be differences. Which brings us right back to the very reason for different playoff brackets. Move on. Its over. I can assure you, it will not be over until a judge makes a ruling on it. We have recourse we can and every day are becoming willing to take. If the June meeting turns into a continuation of the the total split as it exist today it will be time for the LHSAA and certain public school principals to lawyer up.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 10:46:44 GMT -6
Nope, I'm not wrong. Its MUCH more than just those two schools. Public education woes...............true, as long as one group of schools get to select their enrollment, and another group does not, there will always be differences. Which brings us right back to the very reason for different playoff brackets. Move on. Its over. I can assure you, it will not be over until a judge makes a ruling on it. We have recourse we can and every day are becoming willing to take. If the June meeting turns into a continuation of the the total split as it exist today it will be time for the LHSAA and certain public school principals to lawyer up. Good luck on that one Sparky!!!
|
|
|
Post by pinion on Apr 29, 2016 11:29:54 GMT -6
No, it is about getting rid of all private schools. You think that if they are not in the LHSAA they will all close down and be non factors. The private schools will never go away in LA, there will be more and more charters and more and more new private schools. Public education has become and abomination in almost EVERY parish. I know there are a few good parishes, but the problem is that there are only a few and it will only get worst in the next 10 years until the traditional public school will be the minority while Charters and Private schools dominate. Just look at Orleans parish and how closing the traditional public schools has turned educational quality there. We are moving to neighborhood charter schools located within cities and a single public school in most parishes with the exception of the large metropolitan areas, They will have multiple public schools but fewer than exist today. But you are also wrong on this point. We would not be having this discussion if the 5A and 4A schools in North Louisiana had not pushed to force e and JC to play in class size. 1A and 2A private and public schools across the state had no problems playing each other. Once this was done, it became a self fulfilling prophecy. Nope, I'm not wrong. Its MUCH more than just those two schools. Public education woes...............true, as long as one group of schools get to select their enrollment, and another group does not, there will always be differences. Which brings us right back to the very reason for different playoff brackets. Move on. Its over. Yes, it's over. so move on and shut up about it already. but you can't, can you? nope. Still got to be campaigning for it. I'm dying to know what your angle is.
|
|
|
Post by pinion on Apr 29, 2016 11:33:09 GMT -6
No, it is about getting rid of all private schools. You think that if they are not in the LHSAA they will all close down and be non factors. The private schools will never go away in LA, there will be more and more charters and more and more new private schools. Public education has become and abomination in almost EVERY parish. I know there are a few good parishes, but the problem is that there are only a few and it will only get worst in the next 10 years until the traditional public school will be the minority while Charters and Private schools dominate. Just look at Orleans parish and how closing the traditional public schools has turned educational quality there. We are moving to neighborhood charter schools located within cities and a single public school in most parishes with the exception of the large metropolitan areas, They will have multiple public schools but fewer than exist today. But you are also wrong on this point. We would not be having this discussion if the 5A and 4A schools in North Louisiana had not pushed to force e and JC to play in class size. 1A and 2A private and public schools across the state had no problems playing each other. Once this was done, it became a self fulfilling prophecy. I agree. Private schools arent going anywhere. They're getting bigger. As are Charters. Shreveport has a charter that's expanding to full high school. I pass it every day on the way to work. Every day, more and more of the new building is up. Due to where it is, it'll be pulling kids from East Shreveport and probably from North Shreveport as well. It's 10mins from my driveway to theirs and I'm 2 miles from Northwood (public school).
|
|
|
Post by eag on Apr 29, 2016 12:02:38 GMT -6
Public education woes...............true, as long as one group of schools get to select their enrollment, and another group does not, there will always be differences. Bigbob, just out of curiousity I'd love to attend one of these private school drafts where they pick and choose their students and athletes. Can you let me know next time one is held? It would be fascinating. I can just see the elation in the faces of the kids and parents when they are chosen, and I bet there are some spectacular human interest stories in the tears and dejection of all the ones left out!
|
|
|
Post by publicgradprivatedad on Apr 29, 2016 13:37:02 GMT -6
Public education woes...............true, as long as one group of schools get to select their enrollment, and another group does not, there will always be differences. Bigbob, just out of curiousity I'd love to attend one of these private school drafts where they pick and choose their students and athletes. Can you let me know next time one is held? It would be fascinating. I can just see the elation in the faces of the kids and parents when they are chosen, and I bet there are some spectacular human interest stories in the tears and dejection of all the ones left out! eag Don't you know the "first rule about fight club/draft parties" YOU DON'T TALK ABOUT IT. Just a little humor for the split supporters this weekend.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 9:25:18 GMT -6
Public education woes...............true, as long as one group of schools get to select their enrollment, and another group does not, there will always be differences. Bigbob, just out of curiousity I'd love to attend one of these private school drafts where they pick and choose their students and athletes. Can you let me know next time one is held? It would be fascinating. I can just see the elation in the faces of the kids and parents when they are chosen, and I bet there are some spectacular human interest stories in the tears and dejection of all the ones left out! It happens daily when they say who can, and cannot, attend their school. (check with the principal and the board that approves enrollment)
|
|
|
Post by eag on May 2, 2016 10:28:28 GMT -6
No joking, I'd love to know more about your experience with this. I do not think that very many if any private schools have all these rejected applicants out there. May be wrong, though, but I've never seen it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 11:20:43 GMT -6
No joking, I'd love to know more about your experience with this. I do not think that very many if any private schools have all these rejected applicants out there. May be wrong, though, but I've never seen it. MANY have been rejected. First hand experience here. Taught at and coached at private schools for years. Tuition itself is used many times as the way to keep out undesirables. Ironically, the tutions is not such a hurdle for the desirables (assuming they cant or wont pay it). Hence lies the spirit of the rule (in not outright illegal) issues that seperate the two types of schools.
|
|
|
Post by iknownuthing on May 6, 2016 7:14:47 GMT -6
No joking, I'd love to know more about your experience with this. I do not think that very many if any private schools have all these rejected applicants out there. May be wrong, though, but I've never seen it. MANY have been rejected. First hand experience here. Taught at and coached at private schools for years. Tuition itself is used many times as the way to keep out undesirables. Ironically, the tutions is not such a hurdle for the desirables (assuming they cant or wont pay it). Hence lies the spirit of the rule (in not outright illegal) issues that seperate the two types of schools. Now we come to the crux of the real issue with bob. He got sacked by a private school and so he is taking out retribution against them. So boob, what is illegal with tuition and how it is paid by parents or how private schools administer that tuition? Tell us your experience and how those evil private schools violate the law.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 7:34:50 GMT -6
MANY have been rejected. First hand experience here. Taught at and coached at private schools for years. Tuition itself is used many times as the way to keep out undesirables. Ironically, the tutions is not such a hurdle for the desirables (assuming they cant or wont pay it). Hence lies the spirit of the rule (in not outright illegal) issues that seperate the two types of schools. Now we come to the crux of the real issue with bob. He got sacked by a private school and so he is taking out retribution against them. So boob, what is illegal with tuition and how it is paid by parents or how private schools administer that tuition? Tell us your experience and how those evil private schools violate the law. Not sacked by anyone my good man. Never said tuition was illegal. Can you read?
|
|