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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 19:54:02 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 6:46:45 GMT -6
Nationwide issue.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Apr 29, 2016 10:25:29 GMT -6
This is what the states next door to us have:
Arkansas: Non-public schools with 80 or more students in grades 10-12 are moved up one classification. A multiplier was used in the past, leading to a court battle. The state association was sued by a school that was moved up two classifications and won three football games with a roster of 25 players. The court ruled that the multiplier was not unconstitutional.
Mississippi: The state association has 13 private schools. A group of school administrators failed to ban private schools from joining the state association in 2013. Other privates compete in an independent state association that also features schools from Arkansas and Louisiana.
Texas: There are separate associations for public and private schools, but the public association is exploring the idea of including private schools.
I'm not saying we are like any of these, but this question is for the split supporters--If LA had to have one of these, which one do you like the most?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2016 10:44:46 GMT -6
This is what the states next door to us have: Arkansas: Non-public schools with 80 or more students in grades 10-12 are moved up one classification. A multiplier was used in the past, leading to a court battle. The state association was sued by a school that was moved up two classifications and won three football games with a roster of 25 players. The court ruled that the multiplier was not unconstitutional. Mississippi: The state association has 13 private schools. A group of school administrators failed to ban private schools from joining the state association in 2013. Other privates compete in an independent state association that also features schools from Arkansas and Louisiana. Texas: There are separate associations for public and private schools, but the public association is exploring the idea of including private schools. I'm not saying we are like any of these, but this question is for the split supporters--If LA had to have one of these, which one do you like the most? Texas
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Apr 29, 2016 11:08:28 GMT -6
This is what the states next door to us have: Arkansas: Non-public schools with 80 or more students in grades 10-12 are moved up one classification. A multiplier was used in the past, leading to a court battle. The state association was sued by a school that was moved up two classifications and won three football games with a roster of 25 players. The court ruled that the multiplier was not unconstitutional. Mississippi: The state association has 13 private schools. A group of school administrators failed to ban private schools from joining the state association in 2013. Other privates compete in an independent state association that also features schools from Arkansas and Louisiana. Texas: There are separate associations for public and private schools, but the public association is exploring the idea of including private schools. I'm not saying we are like any of these, but this question is for the split supporters--If LA had to have one of these, which one do you like the most? Texas Reaux Texas is exploring the idea of including private schools, LA used to include them and now are trying to split completely.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2016 11:13:48 GMT -6
Texas how it is now, not how they are considering.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Apr 29, 2016 11:20:26 GMT -6
Texas how it is now, not how they are considering. So you are for having 2 separate associations? No plan to bring the schools back together will work for you? If there is something that would satisfy you to bring the schools back together please let us know.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2016 11:22:31 GMT -6
Texas how it is now, not how they are considering. So you are for having 2 separate associations? No plan to bring the schools back together will work for you? If there is something that would satisfy you to bring the schools back together please let us know. I'd be fine with what everyone voted on, we should work to tweak it. Maybe 24 team brackets. Well over 60% wants it that way. As I mentioned in another thread, I agree with Coach Bachman from Calvary Baptist. Either play like it was voted, or split off.
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Post by pinion on Apr 29, 2016 11:26:36 GMT -6
I like what Texas is doing. I think the problem for Louisiana will be the fact that we're not nearly as populated as Texas. I also don't like the fact that if private schools do form their own association that the LHSAA will bar its members from playing against private schools. I also don't like the fact that if private schools leave, there will be no more split. It's not fair to the schools that cannot get kids from all over their parish.
Mainly, I'd miss the competition from over on Line Ave in Shreveport.
But really, I'm okay with the private schools forming their own league. The LHSAA isn't looking out for private schools, they just want the money. And the majority of public schools don't want the private school in their league (except for the money). so I really cannot find a reason to stay.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Apr 29, 2016 15:49:08 GMT -6
So you are for having 2 separate associations? No plan to bring the schools back together will work for you? If there is something that would satisfy you to bring the schools back together please let us know. I'd be fine with what everyone voted on, we should work to tweak it. Maybe 24 team brackets. Well over 60% wants it that way. As I mentioned in another thread, I agree with Coach Bachman from Calvary Baptist. Either play like it was voted, or split off. The plan they have voted on is a split not together. My question was, is there something that would satisfy you to bring the schools back together? I agree to a point, if there is nothing that can bring the association back together then a full split, no non-district/district games to be played. If we can't play each other in the playoffs then there is no reason to play in the regular season.
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Post by chalmetteowl on Apr 30, 2016 7:45:37 GMT -6
I'd be fine with what everyone voted on, we should work to tweak it. Maybe 24 team brackets. Well over 60% wants it that way. As I mentioned in another thread, I agree with Coach Bachman from Calvary Baptist. Either play like it was voted, or split off. The plan they have voted on is a split not together. My question was, is there something that would satisfy you to bring the schools back together? I agree to a point, if there is nothing that can bring the association back together then a full split, no non-district/district games to be played. If we can't play each other in the playoffs then there is no reason to play in the regular season. So go tell our kids to their faces they will never have the opportunity to win their rivalry game again... So yeah, I like Arkansas' plan
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2016 12:52:38 GMT -6
I'd be fine with what everyone voted on, we should work to tweak it. Maybe 24 team brackets. Well over 60% wants it that way. As I mentioned in another thread, I agree with Coach Bachman from Calvary Baptist. Either play like it was voted, or split off. The plan they have voted on is a split not together. My question was, is there something that would satisfy you to bring the schools back together? I agree to a point, if there is nothing that can bring the association back together then a full split, no non-district/district games to be played. If we can't play each other in the playoffs then there is no reason to play in the regular season. There is really no way I would want them back together for the playoffs. I'm fine with being in districts together I guess, as a compromise, but it's not really my preference.
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Post by chalmetteowl on May 1, 2016 0:49:00 GMT -6
The plan they have voted on is a split not together. My question was, is there something that would satisfy you to bring the schools back together? I agree to a point, if there is nothing that can bring the association back together then a full split, no non-district/district games to be played. If we can't play each other in the playoffs then there is no reason to play in the regular season. There is really no way I would want them back together for the playoffs. I'm fine with being in districts together I guess, as a compromise, but it's not really my preference. what class is the team you root for?
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 13:06:30 GMT -6
I have a few teams I follow, but mostly concerned with 2A. 5A will be fine no matter what happens, they have the resources to compete with the JC, ECA, CBA, OCS, LCA, and Riversides of the world.
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Post by eag on May 2, 2016 8:33:18 GMT -6
I have a few teams I follow, but mostly concerned with 2A. 5A will be fine no matter what happens, they have the resources to compete with the JC, ECA, CBA, OCS, LCA, and Riversides of the world. Agree totally. So let's put them up there and let the rest of the kids play ball. 5A school have the resources to compete with those but many 2A privates do not.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 19:02:56 GMT -6
I have a few teams I follow, but mostly concerned with 2A. 5A will be fine no matter what happens, they have the resources to compete with the JC, ECA, CBA, OCS, LCA, and Riversides of the world. Agree totally. So let's put them up there and let the rest of the kids play ball. 5A school have the resources to compete with those but many 2A privates do not. Too many in 2a to move them all up, 1a too. Look at the baseball bracket and I think you will understand. Need a split in the lower classes. No way around it.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 9:25:58 GMT -6
Agree totally. So let's put them up there and let the rest of the kids play ball. 5A school have the resources to compete with those but many 2A privates do not. Too many in 2a to move them all up, 1a too. Look at the baseball bracket and I think you will understand. Need a split in the lower classes. No way around it. 1A and 2A for sure need to be split. 3A probably needs the same. Let classes vote on their own structure. Makes great sense. Put in the constitution that anyone can play up. Make the option to play up and the voted on classification structure, stay in place a minimum of 4 years.
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Post by laprepfb on May 3, 2016 9:56:20 GMT -6
Too many in 2a to move them all up, 1a too. Look at the baseball bracket and I think you will understand. Need a split in the lower classes. No way around it. 1A and 2A for sure need to be split. 3A probably needs the same. Let classes vote on their own structure. Makes great sense. Put in the constitution that anyone can play up. Make the option to play up and the voted on classification structure, stay in place a minimum of 4 years. There are seven 3A select schools: DeLaSalle EDWhite Loyola Lusher Parkview St. Louis University
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Post by chalmetteowl on May 3, 2016 10:02:44 GMT -6
i'd merge them with half of 2A, and half of 2A with half of 1A...
but then i'd also combine the public school classes and make 1A, 2A, and 3A into two classes
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Post by iknownuthing on May 6, 2016 7:58:46 GMT -6
i'd merge them with half of 2A, and half of 2A with half of 1A... but then i'd also combine the public school classes and make 1A, 2A, and 3A into two classes Here is how I would restructure the LHSAA: 1. Join or Die. restore full competition to a true state champion in all classes. 2. Eliminate B and C keeping 5 classes in all sports. The smallest class being 1A. 3. Run classification by school size per sport and gender counting total male and total female population. For example some schools would be 4A in football but 5A in Volleyball or vice versa. 4. Eliminate districts but require a minimum of 6 games per sport in class size for power ratings for football, all other sports that have longer or more games per schedule would have to be determined seperately. 5. Establish a success factor similar to Indiana to move powerhouses into a better competitive framework. (It really does not help us to play a team every year and beat them by 40+ points, we don't get better and you get discouraged) 6. Allow voluntary play up. 7. Institute more severe sanctions against coaches and schools that violate the rules including a 2 year specific sport death penalty. If you do not have institutional control, no competition for 2 years. Head coaches of those teams would be removed and not allowed to coach again in the association at ANY coaching position or at any school public or private that is a member of the association. They could remain as a teacher at the school, but must have no association with athletics. This would be a lifetime ban in the state of Louisiana. 8. Reclassification will be annual but schools will be allowed to shore up contracts for multiple years if they wish. 9. Historically successful schools automatically go to the next class up, or in the case of e and JC the highest classification. 10. In all sports a minimum number of games would have to be played to be eligible for the playoffs. Football 6 games, Baseball 20, Basketball 20, Volleyball 15, Soccer 15 etc.... 11. All playoff teams in all sports must have a winning overall record to be eligible for the playoffs. 12. Transfers. Family transfers with a move of over 100 miles would be immediately eligible. 0 to 99 miles would be judged based on a bonefide move policy. Did the whole family move and for what reason on a case by case basis. Any transfer done without a household move would face a calendar year of ineligibility after the freshman year begins. No student may transfer more than once in a 4 year period unless the family is in the military. For example, if you are miltary and your freshman year you are stationed at Fort Polk, and then you are transferred to New Orleans as a recruiting coordinator at the end of your sopre year you are immediately eligible. If the next year you move back to Fort Polk, you are immediately eligible. There are others I would change.
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Post by indy on May 6, 2016 8:03:29 GMT -6
i'd merge them with half of 2A, and half of 2A with half of 1A... but then i'd also combine the public school classes and make 1A, 2A, and 3A into two classes Here is how I would restructure the LHSAA: 1. Join or Die. restore full competition to a true state champion in all classes. 2. Eliminate B and C keeping 5 classes in all sports. The smallest class being 1A. 3. Run classification by school size per sport and gender counting total male and total female population. For example some schools would be 4A in football but 5A in Volleyball or vice versa. 4. Eliminate districts but require a minimum of 6 games per sport in class size for power ratings for football, all other sports that have longer or more games per schedule would have to be determined seperately. 5. Establish a success factor similar to Indiana to move powerhouses into a better competitive framework. (It really does not help us to play a team every year and beat them by 40+ points, we don't get better and you get discouraged) 6. Allow voluntary play up. 7. Institute more severe sanctions against coaches and schools that violate the rules including a 2 year specific sport death penalty. If you do not have institutional control, no competition for 2 years. Head coaches of those teams would be removed and not allowed to coach again in the association at ANY coaching position or at any school public or private that is a member of the association. They could remain as a teacher at the school, but must have no association with athletics. This would be a lifetime ban in the state of Louisiana. 8. Reclassification will be annual but schools will be allowed to shore up contracts for multiple years if they wish. 9. Historically successful schools automatically go to the next class up, or in the case of e and JC the highest classification. 10. In all sports a minimum number of games would have to be played to be eligible for the playoffs. Football 6 games, Baseball 20, Basketball 20, Volleyball 15, Soccer 15 etc.... 11. All playoff teams in all sports must have a winning overall record to be eligible for the playoffs. 12. Transfers. Family transfers with a move of over 100 miles would be immediately eligible. 0 to 99 miles would be judged based on a bonefide move policy. Did the whole family move and for what reason on a case by case basis. Any transfer done without a household move would face a calendar year of ineligibility after the freshman year begins. No student may transfer more than once in a 4 year period unless the family is in the military. For example, if you are miltary and your freshman year you are stationed at Fort Polk, and then you are transferred to New Orleans as a recruiting coordinator at the end of your sopre year you are immediately eligible. If the next year you move back to Fort Polk, you are immediately eligible. There are others I would change. #10 is the key. When schools lose respect from their fellow members no one will play them and they will be left out of the playoffs
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on May 6, 2016 8:13:27 GMT -6
I like the plan as is. However, I see 1 problem with the plan from the split side. Looks like a "select" school came up with the plan so it has to be advantageous to that side.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2016 23:12:46 GMT -6
Here is how I would restructure the LHSAA: 1. Join or Die. restore full competition to a true state champion in all classes. 2. Eliminate B and C keeping 5 classes in all sports. The smallest class being 1A. 3. Run classification by school size per sport and gender counting total male and total female population. For example some schools would be 4A in football but 5A in Volleyball or vice versa. 4. Eliminate districts but require a minimum of 6 games per sport in class size for power ratings for football, all other sports that have longer or more games per schedule would have to be determined seperately. 5. Establish a success factor similar to Indiana to move powerhouses into a better competitive framework. (It really does not help us to play a team every year and beat them by 40+ points, we don't get better and you get discouraged) 6. Allow voluntary play up. 7. Institute more severe sanctions against coaches and schools that violate the rules including a 2 year specific sport death penalty. If you do not have institutional control, no competition for 2 years. Head coaches of those teams would be removed and not allowed to coach again in the association at ANY coaching position or at any school public or private that is a member of the association. They could remain as a teacher at the school, but must have no association with athletics. This would be a lifetime ban in the state of Louisiana. 8. Reclassification will be annual but schools will be allowed to shore up contracts for multiple years if they wish. 9. Historically successful schools automatically go to the next class up, or in the case of e and JC the highest classification. 10. In all sports a minimum number of games would have to be played to be eligible for the playoffs. Football 6 games, Baseball 20, Basketball 20, Volleyball 15, Soccer 15 etc.... 11. All playoff teams in all sports must have a winning overall record to be eligible for the playoffs. 12. Transfers. Family transfers with a move of over 100 miles would be immediately eligible. 0 to 99 miles would be judged based on a bonefide move policy. Did the whole family move and for what reason on a case by case basis. Any transfer done without a household move would face a calendar year of ineligibility after the freshman year begins. No student may transfer more than once in a 4 year period unless the family is in the military. For example, if you are miltary and your freshman year you are stationed at Fort Polk, and then you are transferred to New Orleans as a recruiting coordinator at the end of your sopre year you are immediately eligible. If the next year you move back to Fort Polk, you are immediately eligible. There are others I would change. #10 is the key. When schools lose respect from their fellow members no one will play them and they will be left out of the playoffs
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2016 23:16:15 GMT -6
Many states use a multiplier for privates. What about taking it a step further? ALL out of zone kids public and private have a multiplier. No one could say they are discriminated against. How Could this pose a problem?
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Post by indy on May 8, 2016 5:09:19 GMT -6
Many states use a multiplier for privates. What about taking it a step further? ALL out of zone kids public and private have a multiplier. No one could say they are discriminated against. How Could this pose a problem? No problem at all. As long as it's the same rule for all.
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Post by iknownuthing on May 9, 2016 8:33:18 GMT -6
Many states use a multiplier for privates. What about taking it a step further? ALL out of zone kids public and private have a multiplier. No one could say they are discriminated against. How Could this pose a problem? The problem with the LHSAA is not that private schools do not want a multiplier or other fair competition rules. Nor would they have a problem with a success formula like Indiana. ANY of those competition based rules that would be upheld across the board for all schools would be acceptable to the private schools. The problem is that there is a growing group of public school principals that want penalties placed on all private schools and not on ANY public schools even though the worst offenders in the last 10 years have all been public schools. This growing and deceitful group of principals will never be satisfied until all private schools are either ISOLATED within the LHSAA (discrimination) or removed from the LHSAA completely. Yet none of them have the courage to make the motion to throw the private schools out of the LHSAA completely. In their minds ALL PRIVATE SCHOOLS cheat and ALL must be punished. Nearly all of these schools reside in the 1A, 2A and 3A ranks in N. LA and some 4A N. LA schools. Meanwhile N LA 5A school principals are willing to let this go for their own selfish ends. Now it is not all N. LA public school principals, but it is a very strong majority. In S. LA and the NOLA area, there are a few who feel this way, but the strong majority does not. While others just don't care one way or the other and so they do not show up to vote. One the vote to split approximately 1/3 of the public schools did not vote or were absent from the meeting. Once the private schools leave and start a new organization, you will have another rift in the LHSAA, that being the unfair advantage of the Metropolitan schools over rural schools and will result in a second split of championships in the smaller classifications. Not so much a big deal in 5A, there are very few rural 5A schools depending on definition of rural/metro.
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Post by eag on May 9, 2016 10:15:20 GMT -6
<<<<<The problem with the LHSAA is not that private schools do not want a multiplier or other fair competition rules. Nor would they have a problem with a success formula like Indiana. ANY of those competition based rules that would be upheld across the board for all schools would be acceptable to the private schools. The problem is that there is a growing group of public school principals that want penalties placed on all private schools>>>>>>
Agree with this. Haven't seen a single split opponent on here oppose school specific plans to improve parity.
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Post by Brad on May 9, 2016 11:40:11 GMT -6
This goes both ways...you don't have many rural 5A schools and you don't have many metro 1A-3A schools.
I know where you are going with that though...and agree...there will always be something.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 20:56:40 GMT -6
Why want the private schools present a plan that many states are already using? The public schools don't particularly care where the privates go. They instead came up with a metro/ rural plan? We have 4.5 million residents in Louisiana. Los Angeles has 3.5 million residents. We don't have a metro/rural issue. It failed miserably once. Why not try something that may have a chance to pass. Only one state in the USA has a success factor rating. Not a good idea either.
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Post by indy on May 10, 2016 5:14:36 GMT -6
Why want the private schools present a plan that many states are already using? The public schools don't particularly care where the privates go. They instead came up with a metro/ rural plan? We have 4.5 million residents in Louisiana. Los Angeles has 3.5 million residents. We don't have a metro/rural issue. It failed miserably once. Why not try something that may have a chance to pass. Only one state in the USA has a success factor rating. Not a good idea either. Metro / rural was an attempt to stay together. Division by geography and population is better than segregation and discrimination.,the LHSAA went to parish wide zones and with that metro areas have a distinct advantage when they have hundreds of thousands vs tens of thousands in population.
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