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Post by lawarrior15 on Jan 10, 2017 10:15:58 GMT -6
I was looking over the agenda for the convention and read over the Pitch Count that is up to be voted upon. It seems to me that this can cause a lot of problems with coaches having to agree on the number after every inning and I wonder how it will be policed to insure as much fairness as possible. Seems that people are trying to put in a rule to say they put in a rule.
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Post by khsyellowjackets94 on Jan 11, 2017 22:21:05 GMT -6
I think a pitch count rule is a terrible idea. Coaches do a fine job of monitoring their pitchers count and we all know some pitchers can throw more pitches than others without damaging their arm. I don't see coaches agreeing on a specific count either. Plus games are only 7 innings and a pitchers count isn't likely to get very high unless he's getting lit up, in which case he wouldn't last very long anyway. And let's not forget that high school pitching staffs in general aren't very deep.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2017 22:41:26 GMT -6
I think a pitch count rule is a terrible idea. Coaches do a fine job of monitoring their pitchers count and we all know some pitchers can throw more pitches than others without damaging their arm. I don't see coaches agreeing on a specific count either. Plus games are only 7 innings and a pitchers count isn't likely to get very high unless he's getting lit up, in which case he wouldn't last very long anyway. And let's not forget that high school pitching staffs in general aren't very deep. The federation is requiring states to implement a pitch count rule. |
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Post by khsyellowjackets94 on Jan 11, 2017 22:48:42 GMT -6
I think a pitch count rule is a terrible idea. Coaches do a fine job of monitoring their pitchers count and we all know some pitchers can throw more pitches than others without damaging their arm. I don't see coaches agreeing on a specific count either. Plus games are only 7 innings and a pitchers count isn't likely to get very high unless he's getting lit up, in which case he wouldn't last very long anyway. And let's not forget that high school pitching staffs in general aren't very deep. The federation is requiring states to implement a pitch count rule. Still say it's a terrible idea. Now let's start the debate about the number. What you think ? Around 85 pitches ? 100 ? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 8:52:34 GMT -6
The federation is requiring states to implement a pitch count rule. Still say it's a terrible idea. Now let's start the debate about the number. What you think ? Around 85 pitches ? 100 ? I think they will say if you throw over 30 you sit a day, if you throw over 60 you sit three days....etc. I don't think they will have a cutoff where you HAVE to come out. If they do I would suggest 110. |
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Post by lawarrior15 on Jan 12, 2017 9:02:37 GMT -6
Still say it's a terrible idea. Now let's start the debate about the number. What you think ? Around 85 pitches ? 100 ? I think they will say if you throw over 30 you sit a day, if you throw over 60 you sit three days....etc. I don't think they will have a cutoff where you HAVE to come out. If they do I would suggest 110. The rule on the agenda says the following: 1 - 30 pitches, 0 days rest 31 - 50 pitches, 1 day of rest 51 - 75 pitches, 2 days rest 76 or more pitches, 3 days rest The maximum number of pitches that can be thrown in one day is 125. If a pitcher reaches that number in the middle of an at bat, then he can finishing pitching to the batter then has to be removed as a pitcher |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 9:05:56 GMT -6
I think they will say if you throw over 30 you sit a day, if you throw over 60 you sit three days....etc. I don't think they will have a cutoff where you HAVE to come out. If they do I would suggest 110. The rule on the agenda says the following: 1 - 30 pitches, 0 days rest 31 - 50 pitches, 1 day of rest 51 - 75 pitches, 2 days rest 76 or more pitches, 3 days rest The maximum number of pitches that can be thrown in one day is 125. If a pitcher reaches that number in the middle of an at bat, then he can finishing pitching to the batter then has to be removed as a pitcher Sounds good to me, but also sounds like a pain in the butt to keep up with. |
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Post by dogwalk on Jan 12, 2017 9:26:24 GMT -6
I think they will say if you throw over 30 you sit a day, if you throw over 60 you sit three days....etc. I don't think they will have a cutoff where you HAVE to come out. If they do I would suggest 110. The rule on the agenda says the following: 1 - 30 pitches, 0 days rest 31 - 50 pitches, 1 day of rest 51 - 75 pitches, 2 days rest 76 or more pitches, 3 days rest The maximum number of pitches that can be thrown in one day is 125. If a pitcher reaches that number in the middle of an at bat, then he can finishing pitching to the batter then has to be removed as a pitcher I want to know who in the absolute frick is going to keep up with the number of pitches the opposite teams pitcher throws during a contest...will there be another official at games with that sole purpose? Doubt it...the associations can't find guys now that want to umpire. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 9:35:33 GMT -6
The rule on the agenda says the following: 1 - 30 pitches, 0 days rest 31 - 50 pitches, 1 day of rest 51 - 75 pitches, 2 days rest 76 or more pitches, 3 days rest The maximum number of pitches that can be thrown in one day is 125. If a pitcher reaches that number in the middle of an at bat, then he can finishing pitching to the batter then has to be removed as a pitcher I want to know who in the absolute frick is going to keep up with the number of pitches the opposite teams pitcher throws during a contest...will there be another official at games with that sole purpose? Doubt it...the associations can't find guys now that want to umpire. I'd think number of batters faced would be an easier way to do things. Someone figure out the average number of pitches a batter usually faces and then figure out limits from there. |
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Post by dogwalk on Jan 12, 2017 9:54:42 GMT -6
I want to know who in the absolute frick is going to keep up with the number of pitches the opposite teams pitcher throws during a contest...will there be another official at games with that sole purpose? Doubt it...the associations can't find guys now that want to umpire. I'd think number of batters faced would be an easier way to do things. Someone figure out the average number of pitches a batter usually faces and then figure out limits from there. I don't think that is fair either...say 6 batters work a full count and foul off 3 pitches each...that will throw a wrench into that formula. I for one am not for a pitch count...all kids are different. I would be more in favor of an innings pitched to days rest formula. I personally don't think kids throw enough now days, which is why we have an arm problem through out the sport. Kids are 'pitching' more off of elevated surfaces which is in turn hurting arms...but I believe the conditioning of arms prior to pitching is where we are lacking. |
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Post by OICU812 on Jan 12, 2017 10:16:24 GMT -6
I don't like the pitch count rule either. The problem is two-fold, first 100 pitches for one kid is way different than 100 pitches to the next kid. Secondly, keeping up with pitches is gonna be a nightmare. Some of the youth tournament organizations have a pretty good system in place to control innings pitched. Umpires are given cards and they are responsible for keeping track of outs recorded or innings pitched and make note of pitching changes. Both coaches sign off on it and its done. I'm not saying this is the best way, but it's way more efficient than trying count and then agree upon the number of pitches.
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Post by lionbacker007 on Jan 12, 2017 10:48:42 GMT -6
We have to have a rule, per national federation...in that case I prefer the pitch count rule instead of the innings pitched rule we have been under.
With innings pitched rule, you could have a kid throw 4 innings but only 28 pitches and that counted the same as someone throwing 4 innings but 80 pitches.
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Post by OICU812 on Jan 12, 2017 11:22:39 GMT -6
I understand and yes that makes a difference. 30 pitches in one inning is MUCH worse on the arm than 100 over a course of a complete game. But who's counting the pitches?  One coach has him at 30 (he can pitch tomorrow), other coach has him at 31 (cant go tomorrow). Potential to get ugly!!! |
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Post by lawarrior15 on Jan 12, 2017 12:21:32 GMT -6
The rule is written to have someone in each dugout counting pitches for both teams and a third person out in any dugout counting pitches. Between each inning all 3 will meet up and check each other. If they have different numbers, 2 out of the 3 is official and if all 3 are different then the third person not in any dugout is the one of record. A lot of problems will arise from this
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 15:10:19 GMT -6
Been using the Game Changer program for four years to score the games and it keeps track of every pitch for both teams pitchers simple and easy
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Post by chalmetteowl on Jan 12, 2017 19:54:44 GMT -6
we just need a rule to prevent the obvious abuses RE: Emerson Gibbs...
dude threw 15 innings and 181 pitches in an 18 inning game because Jesuit just HAD to beat Rummel in a regular season game a few years ago
and Mitch Sewald for Rummel threw 12 innings and like 150 that night. Major league pitchers never throw that many anymore, so why let high school kids?
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Post by OICU812 on Jan 12, 2017 21:04:36 GMT -6
Been using the Game Changer program for four years to score the games and it keeps track of every pitch for both teams pitchers simple and easy Your Game Changer says 31 pitches, my Game Changer says 30 pitches. I'm getting chunked!! Lol Seriously, I'm 100% for safety of young arms....but this is not a great plan in my opinion. My son pitched through high school and I never had a specific pitch count....no problems. He pitched 4 years collegiatly and again no pitch count and no problems. I just see this being a big pain. |
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Post by khsyellowjackets94 on Jan 12, 2017 21:10:20 GMT -6
Those are reasonable numbers. The best way to keep track would be to bring in an additional umpire but will there be enough volunteers for that to happen. I'm sure they will come up with a solution and it will be interesting to see what they come up with for that particular issue. It will be harder on small schools because they don't generally have the pitching depth that the big schools have but coaches already monitor their pitchers anyway so it won't be to big of a stretch for them.
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Post by wildcat on Jan 13, 2017 12:24:07 GMT -6
The only problem with this rule is if I am coaching against a team with 1 stud and a bunch of garbage and we are in a three game series (which some schools do for district or playoffs) I can make a kid pitch more pitches than he wants to and make it where he cant pitch anymore the rest of the tournament/weekend. For example if a team has a good closer I can tell my batters to take and get full counts and foul balls off and once he gets to 31 pitches he cant pitch the next day. So by doing this he has pitched 31 pitches on Friday, we play a DH on Saturday, this kid cant pitch and he only threw 32 pitches.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 13:00:37 GMT -6
The only problem with this rule is if I am coaching against a team with 1 stud and a bunch of garbage and we are in a three game series (which some schools do for district or playoffs) I can make a kid pitch more pitches than he wants to and make it where he cant pitch anymore the rest of the tournament/weekend. For example if a team has a good closer I can tell my batters to take and get full counts and foul balls off and once he gets to 31 pitches he cant pitch the next day. So by doing this he has pitched 31 pitches on Friday, we play a DH on Saturday, this kid cant pitch and he only threw 32 pitches. If you've got players who can run up a kids pitch count then that's just good baseball. Nothing wrong with making them use up their best pitcher. |
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Post by khsyellowjackets94 on Jan 29, 2017 22:27:07 GMT -6
The only problem with this rule is if I am coaching against a team with 1 stud and a bunch of garbage and we are in a three game series (which some schools do for district or playoffs) I can make a kid pitch more pitches than he wants to and make it where he cant pitch anymore the rest of the tournament/weekend. For example if a team has a good closer I can tell my batters to take and get full counts and foul balls off and once he gets to 31 pitches he cant pitch the next day. So by doing this he has pitched 31 pitches on Friday, we play a DH on Saturday, this kid cant pitch and he only threw 32 pitches. If you've got players who can run up a kids pitch count then that's just good baseball. Nothing wrong with making them use up their best pitcher. Well the pitch count amendment passed. And your spot on about running up a pitchers count being good baseball. That's been part of baseball strategy for as long as i can remember. They were pretty generous with the 1 day pitch count, 125. The days of rest required for 51 to 75 is 2 days, 31 to 50 is 1 day and over 75 then 3 days rest is required. Seems pretty reasonable to me. |
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Post by lawarrior15 on Jan 30, 2017 8:00:14 GMT -6
The overseeing of the rule is where I see the problem coming in. There will be arguments every game on how many pitches a player has thrown every inning
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Post by dogwalk on Jan 30, 2017 9:13:56 GMT -6
Is this rule going into effect this season?
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Post by dogwalk on Jan 30, 2017 9:19:10 GMT -6
The overseeing of the rule is where I see the problem coming in. There will be arguments every game on how many pitches a player has thrown every inning I agree, if there is a discrepancy...and my guy gets hosed, I'm getting tossed. The only way to enforce this rule in an unbiased way is to hire an additional umpire for each contest. That way the 'official' pitch counter has no vested interest in either side. |
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Post by KnowItAll on Jan 30, 2017 12:22:30 GMT -6
This rule does not go in effect until next season.
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Post by chalmetteowl on Feb 1, 2017 18:31:36 GMT -6
The overseeing of the rule is where I see the problem coming in. There will be arguments every game on how many pitches a player has thrown every inning doesn't most every game have a book kept where you keep track pitch by pitch? all you need to keep track of is strikes, balls, fouls, and put into play |
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Post by KnowItAll on Feb 1, 2017 20:18:19 GMT -6
The overseeing of the rule is where I see the problem coming in. There will be arguments every game on how many pitches a player has thrown every inning doesn't most every game have a book kept where you keep track pitch by pitch? all you need to keep track of is strikes, balls, fouls, and put into play Lets be honest chalmetteowl, you and I are both from the new orleans region, do you honestly believe any of the new orleans public schools are going to keep track of the pitch count when they play. |
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Post by chalmetteowl on Feb 1, 2017 23:05:13 GMT -6
doesn't most every game have a book kept where you keep track pitch by pitch? all you need to keep track of is strikes, balls, fouls, and put into play Lets be honest chalmetteowl, you and I are both from the new orleans region, do you honestly believe any of the new orleans public schools are going to keep track of the pitch count when they play. like has been said, this is the Emerson Gibbs rule, meant to protect arms with futures... if a kid isn't pitching after HS some will go till they can't go no more |
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Post by tommyjohn on Feb 9, 2017 8:17:46 GMT -6
Been using the Game Changer program for four years to score the games and it keeps track of every pitch for both teams pitchers simple and easy Your Game Changer says 31 pitches, my Game Changer says 30 pitches. I'm getting chunked!! Lol Seriously, I'm 100% for safety of young arms....but this is not a great plan in my opinion. My son pitched through high school and I never had a specific pitch count....no problems. He pitched 4 years collegiatly and again no pitch count and no problems. I just see this being a big pain. Never had a pitch count in High school or college? Hard to believe that any college coach doesnt have a pitch count at all. Yes, it may be different for some kids and whether or not they are starters, middle relievers, or closers. The biggest problem with arm injuries these days is over use. Alot of kids are playing year round and never give their arm a break. By the time they reach high school the damage is already done. To say that a college program didnt monitor pitch count is absurd. Even ESPN shows the pitch count that pitchers are at in collegiate games. |
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Post by tommyjohn on Feb 9, 2017 9:53:31 GMT -6
I have an idea. Lets just throw these kids till their arm hurts. throw 70 percent breaking balls the first week of the season too. Dont count any pitches. That way we will know exactly how much a kid can throw. Pitch count rule is a great idea and it will not effect the coaches/teams that are doing things right anyway.
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One coach has him at 30 (he can pitch tomorrow), other coach has him at 31 (cant go tomorrow). Potential to get ugly!!!
