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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2017 8:49:40 GMT -6
To those with real world first hand experience and not just watch football so think you know-
How important are stats for college recruiting? How will good or bad stats effect a kids recruiting? what about a offense or defense scheme that does not fit a kids strengths will colleges still be able to get accurate scouting on players like this and if not how can someone help them self be scouted better?
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Post by kinder1981 on Oct 21, 2017 9:25:39 GMT -6
This day and age, with the internet so prevalent in the recruiting process, good players or potential recruits are less like to fall through the cracks as they were say 20 years ago. Of course, putting up big stats may get you noticed, but the stats recruiters are really looking at are height/weight, verticals, 40 times, and ACT scores.
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Post by wtiger on Oct 21, 2017 9:28:31 GMT -6
Been alot of great high school players that aren't college type athletes...
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Post by cowboy on Oct 21, 2017 9:29:39 GMT -6
Stats are like GPA for academic scholarships: it depends on the competition. A 4.0 with basic classes doesn't carry as much weight as a 3.5 in all honors and AP classes. If a player is dominating quality competition, the stats matter. If you gain 300 yards against the homecoming opponent, it's not going to carry as far.
What matters most is measurable attributes (size & speed) and performance against quality competition. They also realize that some teams are not going to allow a player to demonstrate the extent of their abilities due to various reasons. Examples: Landry-Walker's QB is committed to Kansas as a cornerback / Malachi Dupre played at John Curtis, where they throw it 4 times a game.
The players that benefit the most from stats are probably the ones on the bubble, numbers-wise. Schools may take a chance on a marginal player if they dominated the competition.
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Post by kinder1981 on Oct 21, 2017 9:33:06 GMT -6
Been alot of great high school players that aren't college type athletes... Very true. Being an amazing high school player doesn’t always translate to the next level. Going back to the schemes, college coaches know how to spot good players even when they’re not always in on the action. A great defensive end may not have a lot of tackles because no one is running his way. A good corner back can’t be judged solely on interceptions because a smart coach isn’t gonna throw his way.
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Post by mt on Oct 21, 2017 10:10:52 GMT -6
Stats are like GPA for academic scholarships: it depends on the competition. A 4.0 with basic classes doesn't carry as much weight as a 3.5 in all honors and AP classes. If a player is dominating quality competition, the stats matter. If you gain 300 yards against the homecoming opponent, it's not going to carry as far. What matters most is measurable attributes (size & speed) and performance against quality competition. They also realize that some teams are not going to allow a player to demonstrate the extent of their abilities due to various reasons. Examples: Landry-Walker's QB is committed to Kansas as a cornerback / Malachi Dupre played at John Curtis, where they throw it 4 times a game. The players that benefit the most from stats are probably the ones on the bubble, numbers-wise. Schools may take a chance on a marginal player if they dominated the competition. Camps>Stats. Pass the eyeball test in front of coaches and that will take you very very far.
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Post by kinder1981 on Oct 21, 2017 10:12:34 GMT -6
A player can run for 2,000 yards are Kinder High, but that doesn’t mean he can do it at LSU...but if he’s 6-5 300 pounds on Kinder’s field, he’ll be the same at Tiger Stadium. If he can run a 4.4 in Mamou, he can do it anyone. No hiding measurables.
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Post by kennypowers on Oct 21, 2017 10:22:27 GMT -6
Been alot of great high school players that aren't college type athletes... Very true. Being an amazing high school player doesn’t always translate to the next level. Going back to the schemes, college coaches know how to spot good players even when they’re not always in on the action. A great defensive end may not have a lot of tackles because no one is running his way. A good corner back can’t be judged solely on interceptions because a smart coach isn’t gonna throw his way. This 100%. They already see film. Stats are a non-factor.. and why some coaches only keep them for all-state, district voting purposes. Parents, kids, and announcers are the people that have no impact on their kid getting a scholarships. Then they gripe and only promote a “me” mentality about what said person does, and not about the team concept. Recruiters will ask and meet with the head coach with questions that the recruiter can’t see on film- character, does he love the game, does he show up on time, and of course measurables.
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Post by fuzzy on Oct 21, 2017 11:07:18 GMT -6
Very true. Being an amazing high school player doesn’t always translate to the next level. Going back to the schemes, college coaches know how to spot good players even when they’re not always in on the action. A great defensive end may not have a lot of tackles because no one is running his way. A good corner back can’t be judged solely on interceptions because a smart coach isn’t gonna throw his way. This 100%. They already see film. Stats are a non-factor.. and why some coaches only keep them for all-state, district voting purposes. Parents, kids, and announcers are the people that have no impact on their kid getting a scholarships. Then they gripe and only promote a “me” mentality about what said person does, and not about the team concept. Recruiters will ask and meet with the head coach with questions that the recruiter can’t see on film- character, does he love the game, does he show up on time, and of course measurables. And it's always the parents that either a) didn't play ball, or b) didn't play at a high level and go thru recruiting themselves. Then they put everyone on blast and blame others.
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Post by kinder1981 on Oct 21, 2017 11:27:13 GMT -6
This 100%. They already see film. Stats are a non-factor.. and why some coaches only keep them for all-state, district voting purposes. Parents, kids, and announcers are the people that have no impact on their kid getting a scholarships. Then they gripe and only promote a “me” mentality about what said person does, and not about the team concept. Recruiters will ask and meet with the head coach with questions that the recruiter can’t see on film- character, does he love the game, does he show up on time, and of course measurables. And it's always the parents that either a) didn't play ball, or b) didn't play at a high level and go thru recruiting themselves. Then they put everyone on blast and blame others. You can spot those parents a mile away too...always trying to “market” their kids, like their a prize bull. College coaches see it even easier and want no part of those kind of parents. They do more harm than good to their kidsz
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Post by mt on Oct 21, 2017 12:16:12 GMT -6
Very true. Being an amazing high school player doesn’t always translate to the next level. Going back to the schemes, college coaches know how to spot good players even when they’re not always in on the action. A great defensive end may not have a lot of tackles because no one is running his way. A good corner back can’t be judged solely on interceptions because a smart coach isn’t gonna throw his way. This 100%. They already see film. Stats are a non-factor.. and why some coaches only keep them for all-state, district voting purposes. Parents, kids, and announcers are the people that have no impact on their kid getting a scholarships. Then they gripe and only promote a “me” mentality about what said person does, and not about the team concept. Recruiters will ask and meet with the head coach with questions that the recruiter can’t see on film- character, does he love the game, does he show up on time, and of course measurables. Good point, coaches do read and vet writers about what they know about kids, happens often. They’ll even ask for names of guys. But in the end it’s gonna come down to head coach. I tell every kid that.
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Post by mt on Oct 21, 2017 12:18:15 GMT -6
There are also head coaches that will ask for guys to write about there kid. Has happen with me
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Post by kinder1981 on Oct 21, 2017 12:21:37 GMT -6
There are also head coaches that will ask for guys to write about there kid. Has happen with me Good to see coaches do all they can to help out one of their own, on the flip side and I’ve seen this happen before, a coach can ruin a players chances as well. If a player is on the fence, maybe just talented enough for an offer of two, and his high school coach burries him to recruiter (bad attitude, no work ethic, etc) they are done for.
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Post by mt on Oct 21, 2017 12:34:59 GMT -6
There are also head coaches that will ask for guys to write about there kid. Has happen with me Good to see coaches do all they can to help out one of their own, on the flip side and I’ve seen this happen before, a coach can ruin a players chances as well. If a player is on the fence, maybe just talented enough for an offer of two, and his high school coach burries him to recruiter (bad attitude, no work ethic, etc) they are done for. That happens VERY often! More than it should in my opinion. I say let the college figure that out once they’ve gotten on campus. As a HS coach don’t negatively talk a kid out of an opportunity. Let the college figure that out. I feel as adults there’s a responsibility to put a kid(s) in the best position to succeed. This is just my own opinion. One thing I can say is about writers/parents, there are a lot of parents that don’t understand the recruiting process, coaches as well, so they seek assistance. Writers get accused of a lot, even me. I know I have no impact or if there’s is one it’s minuscule to say the least. I’ve gotten accused of sending kids to sites that make you pay, lying about kids offers and lying about getting kids offers. On my moms grave, none of those have happen, but people choose to believe what they want. Can’t control that. Writers have a lot more say so than people think though I’ll say that. Not me but many do
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Post by TheFireman89 on Oct 21, 2017 12:52:34 GMT -6
I keep telling some of these guys still in high school that if they really want to play college ball they should learn how to kick, punt, and long snap. There are plenty of fast receivers and big lineman but solid kickers, punters, and long snappers are harder to find.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2017 13:41:32 GMT -6
I keep telling some of these guys still in high school that if they really want to play college ball they should learn how to kick, punt, and long snap. There are plenty of fast receivers and big lineman but solid kickers, punters, and long snappers are harder to find. I just told a friend of mine this. His son is an ok football player but has a soccer background. Kick, kick, kick!!!! And stats don’t matter in recruiting AT ALL!!! I know a kid that has played offense his whole life and just got offered a division 1 scholarship to play defensive back.
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Post by cvwildcatfan on Oct 21, 2017 13:48:42 GMT -6
showing out at camps will trump stats on the field just about any day of the week. Springhill's Charcandrick West was offered by Arkansas as a cornerback after running a 4.31 at one of their camps before his senior season. He had never taken a varsity snap on defense at that point in his high school career, only at fullback and running back.
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Post by WM on Oct 21, 2017 16:03:30 GMT -6
West Monroe does not even keep up with stats or at least does not make them public. . That’s why you never see a West Monroe player on any stat leaders list. As Don Shows used to say, “Stats are for losers”.
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Post by fuzzy on Oct 21, 2017 16:47:00 GMT -6
West Monroe does not even keep up with stats or at least does not make them public. . That’s why you never see a West Monroe player on any stat leaders list. As Don Shows used to say, “Stats are for losers”. Well, not many west Monroe players would lead any statistical category. That isn't how they play football. They play team football and parents don't and whine about stats.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 19:27:20 GMT -6
Thank you all for the responses. I will admit that I watch a lot of football for a long time but im new to the whole recruiting thing. But what about for linemen who only allow a very low amount of sacks if any during a season? Surely that has to mean and show something of a players talent. I hear sometimes when watching games on Saturday or sunday and they talk about how a lineman has "graded out" at a certain grade. What exactly is that and how is it decided? Is that only a upper level thing or does it happen in hs too? if a kid has all the "measurables" that you all are talking about then cant stats help him be a better prospect? I understand what you are saying and see the argument but arent stats proof of a players "production" or not. I cannot see how stats are conplete meaningless. The espn hs games and the real recruiting sites compare top recruits stats to show how good and productive they are on the field. I am not arguing that stats are a end all be all but mean nothing seems odd.
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Post by mt on Oct 24, 2017 19:43:06 GMT -6
Thank you all for the responses. I will admit that I watch a lot of football for a long time but im new to the whole recruiting thing. But what about for linemen who only allow a very low amount of sacks if any during a season? Surely that has to mean and show something of a players talent. I hear sometimes when watching games on Saturday or sunday and they talk about how a lineman has "graded out" at a certain grade. What exactly is that and how is it decided? Is that only a upper level thing or does it happen in hs too? if a kid has all the "measurables" that you all are talking about then cant stats help him be a better prospect? I understand what you are saying and see the argument but arent stats proof of a players "production" or not. I cannot see how stats are conplete meaningless. The espn hs games and the real recruiting sites compare top recruits stats to show how good and productive they are on the field. I am not arguing that stats are a end all be all but mean nothing seems odd. So for lineman, it’s kind of odd because the first things I’ve been told by a couple coaches match. Height and arm length are key with oline. The next two things are feet and system. Arm length and Feet being key because so many HS systems either are run heavy or not asked to block long. Many come on campuses learning pass blocking technique. Stats and tape in Hs can be deceiving because of competition levels. I guess I say all this to say is that you’re right, stats and production do mean something at particular positions absolutely. But with the influx of Camps and 7 on 7 for skill guys where you get to see guys compete vs similar skills and size, stats don’t play much of a part anymore
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 19:59:48 GMT -6
And no my son is not a linemen I really just am curious to how it works for that position because it is so different and I feel like learning. Thank you.
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Post by mt on Oct 24, 2017 21:12:40 GMT -6
And no my son is not a linemen I really just am curious to how it works for that position because it is so different and I feel like learning. Thank you. It’s a whole lot to it. I read anything I can, listen to any podcast I can find, and talk to any coach willing to talk to me about it. Like I mentioned in a previous post, there’s a guy who’s a former HS coach, now a track coach, son is really good but dad admits he doesn’t understand the recruiting process. And to be honest, money is a factor in this as well. While Louisiana puts a slough of kids in college and nfl, there could be so many more! The point I’m getting at, our kids can’t visit, camp like wealthy kids can. It’s a sad reality that many kids are able to get to more places than others simply because some parents can’t afford it. Kids from California come all the way to Sulphur, Louisiana to compete in the SPE Camp every January. A kid from Tennessee came all the way down for the Rivals Speed Camp, Earned his way to the Sunday invite Camp and his recruitment soared. Heck, Colson Yankoff came down for the Nike Camp from Idaho!!!! Lol. Some guys are granted more opportunity than others and it’s out of the kids control. It’s part of the reason I like 7 on 7 because while there’s some cost to it and it’s not actual football, it grants kid the opportunity to visit many schools and some even gain the attention of coaches on said campus. Sorry for the long post lol
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Post by khsyellowjackets94 on Oct 24, 2017 21:39:13 GMT -6
The camps is where most of these guys get noticed and earn an offer. Coaches still go to games to see them in game situations but usually after they've seen them at a camp. They love the measurables. Sometimes luck can play a part like it did for D.J Chark who got noticed by LSU coaches when they went to a game to scout another player on another team and saw him running rings around everybody else. The recruiting process began and now he's a star at LSU.
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Post by hasbeen on Oct 25, 2017 5:58:00 GMT -6
They don't matter much at all. The difference in college and high school football is huge, comparing high school numbers to possible college performance is apples to butterflies comparison, not even close. 10 pancake blocks a game sounds phenomenal but if you are blocking 140 lb linemen are you ready for the SEC?
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Post by doublej on Oct 25, 2017 7:44:42 GMT -6
I’ve seen a lot of kids never get an offer because they lack in the 2 most important stats, gpa and act. No matter how much you talk to them as incoming freshmen, they play around and don’t make the grades.
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Post by mt on Oct 25, 2017 8:24:25 GMT -6
I’ve seen a lot of kids never get an offer because they lack in the 2 most important stats, gpa and act. No matter how much you talk to them as incoming freshmen, they play around and don’t make the grades. Those are extremely important definitely. But I’ve heard of ways around it. They’ll be stashed at Prep or Juco school, or correspondence courses. Some kids really try with the ACT and just can’t get it.
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Post by FridaysDownSouth on Oct 26, 2017 11:51:26 GMT -6
In this day and age, the colleges are going to find the kids. I believe stats are secondary to the physical traits of the player. Size is size and speed is speed anywhere. However, a high school coach is critical to getting his players to college. They have to advocate for their kids: make phone calls, send game tape, send them to summer camps. Now having said all that, if you're 6-5 and 300 lbs., but can't move your feet or use your hands, all that size is wasted. So size is important but you have to have the ability to use that size.
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