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Post by Sixpack on Aug 31, 2018 21:26:20 GMT -6
Just returned from ECA-B. Dunne game. Left end of 3rd quarter so can't comment on anything after that. Can't believe what I saw. Eagles had ZERO offense. Could not run the ball and could not pass the ball. Also had no pass defense at all. Front 4 on defense very strong but that's it. Nothing else.
I did not see Evangel make a first down until three minutes left in THIRD QUARTER. That has to be an all time Evangel record for a lack of offense. And it's not because Dunne is that great either. I would not be surprised if Byrd gives them a much better game next week. With Union's win over Airline tonight I would say that their jamboree win over Evangel was no fluke.
By the way, the only touchdown I saw Evangel score tonight was scored by the defense on a fluke incomplete pass that turned out to be a fumble that the Dunne receiver made no attempt to cover because he thought it was an incomplete pass. The only thing that was Evangel about the team I saw tonight was the e on the helmet. The Eagles may turn it all around stating next week but what I saw tonight was really bad. They play like this next week and it could get ugly. The ghosts of Duron field were rolling over in their graves for the first three quarters tonight.
PS...I don't even know the final score so after I hit send on this discouraging report I will probably find out Evangel scored 50 in the 4th quarter after I left.
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Post by BGH on Aug 31, 2018 21:42:21 GMT -6
Just returned from ECA-B. Dunne game. Left end of 3rd quarter so can't comment on anything after that. Can't believe what I saw. Eagles had ZERO offense. Could not run the ball and could not pass the ball. Also had no pass defense at all. Front 4 on defense very strong but that's it. Nothing else.
I did not see Evangel make a first down until three minutes left in THIRD QUARTER. That has to be an all time Evangel record for a lack of offense. And it's not because Dunne is that great either. I would not be surprised if Byrd gives them a much better game next week. With Union's win over Airline tonight I would say that their jamboree win over Evangel was no fluke.
By the way, the only touchdown I saw Evangel score tonight was scored by the defense on a fluke incomplete pass that turned out to be a fumble that the Dunne receiver made no attempt to cover because he thought it was an incomplete pass. The only thing that was Evangel about the team I saw tonight was the e on the helmet. The Eagles may turn it all around stating next week but what I saw tonight was really bad. They play like this next week and it could get ugly. The ghosts of Duron field were rolling over in their graves for the first three quarters tonight.
PS...I don't even know the final score so after I hit send on this discouraging report I will probably find out Evangel scored 50 in the 4th quarter after I left.
You should have left earlier, because they finally started moving the ball after you left. In the 4th Qtr. they pulled within 20-14 but this kid from Bishop Dunne hit two field goals of 45 yards. Evangel was driving with about a minute left and Shapen got horse-collared and had to sit out. It would not have mattered because they were down 23-14.
But I am with you, the first three quarters I bet they did not have 25 yards of offense. It doesn't help when you keep getting penalized, but I do not think they could have picked up a first and 5.
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Post by Sixpack on Aug 31, 2018 21:59:43 GMT -6
Just returned from ECA-B. Dunne game. Left end of 3rd quarter so can't comment on anything after that. Can't believe what I saw. Eagles had ZERO offense. Could not run the ball and could not pass the ball. Also had no pass defense at all. Front 4 on defense very strong but that's it. Nothing else.
I did not see Evangel make a first down until three minutes left in THIRD QUARTER. That has to be an all time Evangel record for a lack of offense. And it's not because Dunne is that great either. I would not be surprised if Byrd gives them a much better game next week. With Union's win over Airline tonight I would say that their jamboree win over Evangel was no fluke.
By the way, the only touchdown I saw Evangel score tonight was scored by the defense on a fluke incomplete pass that turned out to be a fumble that the Dunne receiver made no attempt to cover because he thought it was an incomplete pass. The only thing that was Evangel about the team I saw tonight was the e on the helmet. The Eagles may turn it all around stating next week but what I saw tonight was really bad. They play like this next week and it could get ugly. The ghosts of Duron field were rolling over in their graves for the first three quarters tonight.
PS...I don't even know the final score so after I hit send on this discouraging report I will probably find out Evangel scored 50 in the 4th quarter after I left.
You should have left earlier, because they finally started moving the ball after you left. In the 4th Qtr. they pulled within 20-14 but this kid from Bishop Dunne hit two field goals of 45 yards. Evangel was driving with about a minute left and Shapen got horse-collared and had to sit out. It would not have mattered because they were down 23-14.
But I am with you, the first three quarters I bet they did not have 25 yards of offense. It doesn't help when you keep getting penalized, but I do not think they could have picked up a first and 5.
Do you think they just couldn't get untracked for three quarters tonight and they will get it together for next week's game or is the offense just subpar this year? Chatman (#40)? is a great player.
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Post by fuzzy on Aug 31, 2018 22:04:18 GMT -6
Just returned from ECA-B. Dunne game. Left end of 3rd quarter so can't comment on anything after that. Can't believe what I saw. Eagles had ZERO offense. Could not run the ball and could not pass the ball. Also had no pass defense at all. Front 4 on defense very strong but that's it. Nothing else.
I did not see Evangel make a first down until three minutes left in THIRD QUARTER. That has to be an all time Evangel record for a lack of offense. And it's not because Dunne is that great either. I would not be surprised if Byrd gives them a much better game next week. With Union's win over Airline tonight I would say that their jamboree win over Evangel was no fluke.
By the way, the only touchdown I saw Evangel score tonight was scored by the defense on a fluke incomplete pass that turned out to be a fumble that the Dunne receiver made no attempt to cover because he thought it was an incomplete pass. The only thing that was Evangel about the team I saw tonight was the e on the helmet. The Eagles may turn it all around stating next week but what I saw tonight was really bad. They play like this next week and it could get ugly. The ghosts of Duron field were rolling over in their graves for the first three quarters tonight.
PS...I don't even know the final score so after I hit send on this discouraging report I will probably find out Evangel scored 50 in the 4th quarter after I left. Did you think I was joking 2 weeks ago?
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Post by BGH on Sept 1, 2018 9:02:10 GMT -6
You should have left earlier, because they finally started moving the ball after you left. In the 4th Qtr. they pulled within 20-14 but this kid from Bishop Dunne hit two field goals of 45 yards. Evangel was driving with about a minute left and Shapen got horse-collared and had to sit out. It would not have mattered because they were down 23-14.
But I am with you, the first three quarters I bet they did not have 25 yards of offense. It doesn't help when you keep getting penalized, but I do not think they could have picked up a first and 5.
Do you think they just couldn't get untracked for three quarters tonight and they will get it together for next week's game or is the offense just subpar this year? Chatman (#40)? is a great player.
I have no idea Sixpack. I had been led to believe that the offense was going to be better (more diverse) this year, but no Evangel fan can be encouraged by that offensive performance. I don't know that they have the coaching to right the ship.
It is going to be interesting to see how Byrd performs against Bishop Dunne this weekend.
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Post by evergreen on Sept 2, 2018 16:20:25 GMT -6
I just Evangel would realize they are not the same team from the 90's and early 2000's.
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Post by Southplaq on Sept 3, 2018 0:37:50 GMT -6
Another embarrassing letdown by the eagles. Maybe it's time for a coaching change!
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Post by Thumper01 on Sept 3, 2018 9:12:25 GMT -6
So, we lose by one TD and my fellow Evangel fans want to complain? We have a good team, coaches and program, apparently we dont have loyal fans? The bleachers were packed and our players/coaches never gave up.
None of these players played for ECA 5,10 or 20 years ago, so lets get real, the rules are different, the school is different. So, lets not be so negative on a bunch of teenagers getting to play high school football for a few years. Go Eagles!!!
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Post by retired on Sept 3, 2018 9:26:11 GMT -6
So, we lose by one TD and my fellow Evangel fans want to complain? We have a good team, coaches and program, apparently we dont have loyal fans? The bleachers were packed and our players/coaches never gave up. None of these players played for ECA 5,10 or 20 years ago, so lets get real, the rules are different, the school is different. So, lets not be so negative on a bunch of teenagers getting to play high school football for a few years. Go Eagles!!! So well put. I have zero love for ECA, and have been one of their biggest critics (of the policies and how they run their program) from way back when they were beating 5A football teams in the Dome, and yet couldn't even field a girls basketball team. But this is spot on. They are HS kids, playing a game.
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Post by pinion on Sept 3, 2018 11:09:20 GMT -6
I just Evangel would realize they are not the same team from the 90's and early 2000's. They don't think they are the same team from back then. And I don't think any of the fans think that way either. It's normal to expect your team to do well. It's normal when they generally do well for people to expect them to do well. Evangel has done well. They haven't done nearly as well as from years back, but I'd still say they do pretty well. Certainly within the top performing programs in the state. So far as I can tell, it's generally people who aren't ECA fans that are always bringing up 20 years ago. Hell, half the people that were associated with ECA 20 years ago are now associated with other programs. All that said, ECA can bomb playing these OOS teams and still end up running the table in 1-5A and make a reasonable playoff run and possibly even reach the championship. The teams that ECA are generally losing to are teams that would roll in Louisiana. Last year, the 2 losses ECA had were against teams that went on to win their respective championships. The year before, ECA's 2 losses were to Allen Texas, who lost in the championship and Neville (who also lost in their championship). ECA won state in 2016. So ECA lost to Dunne. A team that was mediocre last season. A lot can change in a year, so maybe they are going to roll this season. Maybe they won't. It's hard to say this early on in the season. I do know that ECA is going to have to get an offensive scheme that's going to work for them because relying on the defense to carry them isn't a long-term plan. and I imagine that nobody knows that more than Coach Dawson.
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Post by BGH on Sept 3, 2018 12:22:49 GMT -6
I just Evangel would realize they are not the same team from the 90's and early 2000's.
OK .......... so what made you jump up and post that out of the blue? I did not see anyone talk about the teams from 20 years ago.
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Post by BGH on Sept 3, 2018 12:36:44 GMT -6
So, we lose by one TD and my fellow Evangel fans want to complain? We have a good team, coaches and program, apparently we dont have loyal fans? The bleachers were packed and our players/coaches never gave up. None of these players played for ECA 5,10 or 20 years ago, so lets get real, the rules are different, the school is different. So, lets not be so negative on a bunch of teenagers getting to play high school football for a few years. Go Eagles!!!
I am going to keep complaining so long as they keep playing offense like that. I think I made it clear that it is the coaches that I blame not the kids.
I am worried that our QB is going to go back and concentrate on baseball (which is probably his future) if this keeps up.
While I am at it, I am going to go ahead an voice my biggest complaint about Friday night. I have been parking at Evangel stadium for over 20 years. Now, all of a sudden, they have blockaded the largest parking lot and did not let anyone park there causing a huge traffic jam. It took me an extra 30 minutes to get in the stadium, because I was like everyone else and did not know about that area now being for paid parking. The funny think is, that parking lot was empty when I went in the stadium, and empty when I cam out.
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Post by retired on Sept 3, 2018 14:13:06 GMT -6
So, we lose by one TD and my fellow Evangel fans want to complain? We have a good team, coaches and program, apparently we dont have loyal fans? The bleachers were packed and our players/coaches never gave up. None of these players played for ECA 5,10 or 20 years ago, so lets get real, the rules are different, the school is different. So, lets not be so negative on a bunch of teenagers getting to play high school football for a few years. Go Eagles!!!
I am going to keep complaining so long as they keep playing offense like that. I think I made it clear that it is the coaches that I blame not the kids.
I am worried that our QB is going to go back and concentrate on baseball (which is probably his future) if this keeps up.
While I am at it, I am going to go ahead an voice my biggest complaint about Friday night. I have been parking at Evangel stadium for over 20 years. Now, all of a sudden, they have blockaded the largest parking lot and did not let anyone park there causing a huge traffic jam. It took me an extra 30 minutes to get in the stadium, because I was like everyone else and did not know about that area now being for paid parking. The funny think is, that parking lot was empty when I went in the stadium, and empty when I cam out.
What exactly are the coaches doing (or not doing) that you believe is causing the issues? Please give detailed analysis based on your off season attendance to their work out sessions as well as their practices.
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Post by Sixpack on Sept 3, 2018 14:18:30 GMT -6
So, we lose by one TD and my fellow Evangel fans want to complain? We have a good team, coaches and program, apparently we dont have loyal fans? The bleachers were packed and our players/coaches never gave up. None of these players played for ECA 5,10 or 20 years ago, so lets get real, the rules are different, the school is different. So, lets not be so negative on a bunch of teenagers getting to play high school football for a few years. Go Eagles!!! If you are talking about myself and BGH I just re-read both our posts and I don't see anywhere that either of us "complained" or were "disloyal", or were negative to any teenager. I posted facts and how I interpreted those facts. When a team has the reputation as an offensive terror for 15 or more years and suddenly can' make more than one first down for three quarters of football that is worth mentioning. I hope Evangel can get back on track before next week but if they can't they will lose again. And if they don't play well I am pretty sure somebody of this forum will comment on it. That's what happens on football forums when a team plays way under their expected potential. If you want to complement the team when they don't play well that's your business but that is not being truthful. I believe in telling the truth. Evangel has had lot of praise for all their success in the past. I'm pretty sure the school, the coaches, and the players are big enough to accept some criticism when they play way under expectations.
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Post by Sixpack on Sept 3, 2018 14:28:34 GMT -6
So, we lose by one TD and my fellow Evangel fans want to complain? We have a good team, coaches and program, apparently we dont have loyal fans? The bleachers were packed and our players/coaches never gave up. None of these players played for ECA 5,10 or 20 years ago, so lets get real, the rules are different, the school is different. So, lets not be so negative on a bunch of teenagers getting to play high school football for a few years. Go Eagles!!! If you are talking about myself and BGH I just re-read both our posts and I don't see anywhere that either of us "complained" or were "disloyal", or were negative to any teenager. I posted facts and how I interpreted those facts. When a team has the reputation as an offensive terror for 15 or more years and suddenly can't make more than one first down for three quarters of football that is worth mentioning. I hope Evangel can get back on track before next week but if they can't they will lose again. And if they don't play well I am pretty sure somebody of this forum will comment on it. That's what happens on football forums when a team plays way under their expected potential. If you want to complement the team when they don't play well that's your business but that is not being truthful. I believe in telling the truth. Evangel has had lot of praise for all their success in the past. I'm pretty sure the school, the coaches, and the players are big enough to accept some criticism when they play way under expectations.
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Post by Sixpack on Sept 3, 2018 14:35:34 GMT -6
Sorry for the double post. Don't know why it happened or how to delete it.
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Post by BGH on Sept 3, 2018 16:00:37 GMT -6
I am going to keep complaining so long as they keep playing offense like that. I think I made it clear that it is the coaches that I blame not the kids.
I am worried that our QB is going to go back and concentrate on baseball (which is probably his future) if this keeps up.
While I am at it, I am going to go ahead an voice my biggest complaint about Friday night. I have been parking at Evangel stadium for over 20 years. Now, all of a sudden, they have blockaded the largest parking lot and did not let anyone park there causing a huge traffic jam. It took me an extra 30 minutes to get in the stadium, because I was like everyone else and did not know about that area now being for paid parking. The funny think is, that parking lot was empty when I went in the stadium, and empty when I cam out.
What exactly are the coaches doing (or not doing) that you believe is causing the issues? Please give detailed analysis based on your off season attendance to their work out sessions as well as their practices.
Are you implying the the only impact the coaches have on a game are during the practices and off season work out sessions?
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Post by retired on Sept 3, 2018 18:15:28 GMT -6
What exactly are the coaches doing (or not doing) that you believe is causing the issues? Please give detailed analysis based on your off season attendance to their work out sessions as well as their practices.
Are you implying the the only impact the coaches have on a game are during the practices and off season work out sessions?
No, I am implying that the vast majority of the loudmouth ignorant fans think that coaching is something that happens only on Friday nights for 2-3 hours and is mostly calling plays and getting the team "fired up" (Oh I hate that phrase). However, you are not the ordinary loudmouth ignorant fan, therefore I figured you were basing your comments on the 85-90% % of coaching that those people aren't aware of. Particularly given that this coaching staff still has won 20 games over the last two seasons.
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Post by BGH on Sept 3, 2018 22:24:13 GMT -6
Are you implying the the only impact the coaches have on a game are during the practices and off season work out sessions?
No, I am implying that the vast majority of the loudmouth ignorant fans think that coaching is something that happens only on Friday nights for 2-3 hours and is mostly calling plays and getting the team "fired up" (Oh I hate that phrase). However, you are not the ordinary loudmouth ignorant fan, therefore I figured you were basing your comments on the 85-90% % of coaching that those people aren't aware of. Particularly given that this coaching staff still has won 20 games over the last two seasons.
Are you saying that I am an extra-ordinary loudmouth ignorant fan? I always wanted to be extraordinary.
You have prompted me to say something that I have said to friends of mine, but have never said on this board. First I need to say that I have never been a coach other than for my kids beginning level athletic teams. I am not qualified nor do I have the knowledge to be a high school football coach.
Almost all of us in life have jobs and most of us have qualifications and experiences that make us very good or even experts at our jobs. Yet most of us come under scrutiny (especially those of us who deal with the general public or business customers) by people who think they know how to do our jobs better than we do. It is life, we just smile at the customer and try to move on and make them happy somehow. That is how the private sector works.
But somehow people in the public sector (government employees) feel like they are so special that they are beyond reproach. Coaches fall into that category. How dare some loudmouth fan question their abilities. After-all they have a noble calling that common people just cannot comprehend. You sound like you must be a part of that fraternity of coaches.
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Post by retired on Sept 3, 2018 22:38:31 GMT -6
No, I am implying that the vast majority of the loudmouth ignorant fans think that coaching is something that happens only on Friday nights for 2-3 hours and is mostly calling plays and getting the team "fired up" (Oh I hate that phrase). However, you are not the ordinary loudmouth ignorant fan, therefore I figured you were basing your comments on the 85-90% % of coaching that those people aren't aware of. Particularly given that this coaching staff still has won 20 games over the last two seasons.
Are you saying that I am an extra-ordinary loudmouth ignorant fan? I always wanted to be extraordinary.
You have prompted me to say something that I have said to friends of mine, but have never said on this board. First I need to say that I have never been a coach other than for my kids beginning level athletic teams. I am not qualified nor do I have the knowledge to be a high school football coach.
Almost all of us in life have jobs and most of us have qualifications and experiences that make us very good or even experts at our jobs. Yet most of us come under scrutiny (especially those of us who deal with the general public or business customers) by people who think they know how to do our jobs better than we do. It is life, we just smile at the customer and try to move on and make them happy somehow. That is how the private sector works.
But somehow people in the public sector (government employees) feel like they are so special that they are beyond reproach. Coaches fall into that category. How dare some loudmouth fan question their abilities. After-all they have a noble calling that common people just cannot comprehend. You sound like you must be a part of that fraternity of coaches.
quite to the contrary, after reading your posts for over 20 years (way back on KR) I think your posts are well thought out and intelligent, hence my question as to the basis of your comments. I figured you must have had more to base it on than just the 2 hours of game time. I will say I find it a bit ironic that in paragraph 3, you highlight how foolish most people are when they think they know how to do someones job better than others, but then proceed to do just that. I would also say that I disagree with your assertion that private sector individuals come under scrutiny, but others don't. In fact I would argue that the three most scrutinized jobs that "EVERYONE" can do better than the person performing it are 1) Sports official, 2) Sports Coach 3) President of United States. I don't ever see someone jumping on social media or a message board telling everyone how Jamie Dimon is a moron, and explaining how they would run JP Morgan Chase instead. The scrutiny you describe are very specific instances where the complaints are specific to the complainer. They stem from one on one interactions between the complainer and the person being complained about. The scrutiny officials and coaches receive are much wider and more frequent. Apples to oranges. As a member of that fraternity, I don't think that coaches are beyond reproach. My point was simply that 95% of the complaints, comments, criticisms are made by people ignorant of the actual tasks being performed. For example, the biggest seems to be playcalling. Fans seem to think that if a run was called, and was not successful, than a pass would have been (and vice versa). That just isn't so. Unsuccessful plays usually occur because someone's son failed to do his job, not because the coach called the wrong play. Another example, years ago I was in the stands when a Prominent small New Orleans Private school was defeated for the 3 or 4th year in a row by another private school with a much more blue collar enrollment. After getting fed up hearing the St. Charles Street parents complaining that they were being "outcoached" I pointed out to them that while their sons were travelling through Europe for 5 weeks, their opponents spent the summer working manual labor jobs and lifting weights. I pointed out to another set of parents that while their kids were visiting colleges the first week of August, their opponents were partaking in two-a-day practices. Essentially I was pointing out to them that "coaching" wasn't just the 2 hours they saw on Friday nights, and to be more aware of what went into it before deciding that one staff was inferior to another. Getting back to my original point though, I just thought you would have had a stronger basis on which to proclaim that a staff with 20 wins over 2 years wouldn't be "good enough". Maybe you had seen their practices, and thought they lacked intensity or attention to detail. Maybe you were aware that their in school and off season conditioning program was not well organized or attended. Maybe you had seen over the past several seasons that their schemes were unsound, but superior athleticism prevailed. Maybe you knew that Coach Dawson's previous staff had left, and he was basically manning the ship himself, with a view CECP coaches who lacked experience.
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Post by evergreen on Sept 4, 2018 0:36:57 GMT -6
I just Evangel would realize they are not the same team from the 90's and early 2000's.
OK .......... so what made you jump up and post that out of the blue? I did not see anyone talk about the teams from 20 years ago.
Just opinion ....
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Post by BGH on Sept 4, 2018 15:11:35 GMT -6
Are you saying that I am an extra-ordinary loudmouth ignorant fan? I always wanted to be extraordinary.
You have prompted me to say something that I have said to friends of mine, but have never said on this board. First I need to say that I have never been a coach other than for my kids beginning level athletic teams. I am not qualified nor do I have the knowledge to be a high school football coach.
Almost all of us in life have jobs and most of us have qualifications and experiences that make us very good or even experts at our jobs. Yet most of us come under scrutiny (especially those of us who deal with the general public or business customers) by people who think they know how to do our jobs better than we do. It is life, we just smile at the customer and try to move on and make them happy somehow. That is how the private sector works.
But somehow people in the public sector (government employees) feel like they are so special that they are beyond reproach. Coaches fall into that category. How dare some loudmouth fan question their abilities. After-all they have a noble calling that common people just cannot comprehend. You sound like you must be a part of that fraternity of coaches.
quite to the contrary, after reading your posts for over 20 years (way back on KR) I think your posts are well thought out and intelligent, hence my question as to the basis of your comments. I figured you must have had more to base it on than just the 2 hours of game time. I will say I find it a bit ironic that in paragraph 3, you highlight how foolish most people are when they think they know how to do someones job better than others, but then proceed to do just that. I would also say that I disagree with your assertion that private sector individuals come under scrutiny, but others don't. In fact I would argue that the three most scrutinized jobs that "EVERYONE" can do better than the person performing it are 1) Sports official, 2) Sports Coach 3) President of United States. I don't ever see someone jumping on social media or a message board telling everyone how Jamie Dimon is a moron, and explaining how they would run JP Morgan Chase instead. The scrutiny you describe are very specific instances where the complaints are specific to the complainer. They stem from one on one interactions between the complainer and the person being complained about. The scrutiny officials and coaches receive are much wider and more frequent. Apples to oranges. As a member of that fraternity, I don't think that coaches are beyond reproach. My point was simply that 95% of the complaints, comments, criticisms are made by people ignorant of the actual tasks being performed. For example, the biggest seems to be playcalling. Fans seem to think that if a run was called, and was not successful, than a pass would have been (and vice versa). That just isn't so. Unsuccessful plays usually occur because someone's son failed to do his job, not because the coach called the wrong play. Another example, years ago I was in the stands when a Prominent small New Orleans Private school was defeated for the 3 or 4th year in a row by another private school with a much more blue collar enrollment. After getting fed up hearing the St. Charles Street parents complaining that they were being "outcoached" I pointed out to them that while their sons were travelling through Europe for 5 weeks, their opponents spent the summer working manual labor jobs and lifting weights. I pointed out to another set of parents that while their kids were visiting colleges the first week of August, their opponents were partaking in two-a-day practices. Essentially I was pointing out to them that "coaching" wasn't just the 2 hours they saw on Friday nights, and to be more aware of what went into it before deciding that one staff was inferior to another. Getting back to my original point though, I just thought you would have had a stronger basis on which to proclaim that a staff with 20 wins over 2 years wouldn't be "good enough". Maybe you had seen their practices, and thought they lacked intensity or attention to detail. Maybe you were aware that their in school and off season conditioning program was not well organized or attended. Maybe you had seen over the past several seasons that their schemes were unsound, but superior athleticism prevailed. Maybe you knew that Coach Dawson's previous staff had left, and he was basically manning the ship himself, with a view CECP coaches who lacked experience.
I will say I find it a bit ironic that in paragraph 3, you highlight how foolish most people are when they think they know how to do someones job better than others, but then proceed to do just that.
There is no irony at all. The point you missed was that most all of us deal with situations like that, but most of us have to grin and bear it. We can't tell the people we deal with (often our customers) that they don't know what they are talking about because they do not know how much time, training, effort, and planning goes into what we do. The old saying "the customer is always right" applies to us even though it is a lie. They are not always right, but they are always the customer.
I would also say that I disagree with your assertion that private sector individuals come under scrutiny, but others don't. Again, you missed the point, because I said no such thing.
Getting back to my original point though, I just thought you would have had a stronger basis on which to proclaim that a staff with 20 wins over 2 years wouldn't be "good enough".I am a butt ...... but, I did not go into detail when I made the statement nor do I feel like doing so at this time. I will say that my opinion is simply based on observations during the games and has nothing to do with practice, training, conditioning, etc.
I am curious, would you have challenged me at all if I had praised a couch or an official?
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Post by indy on Sept 4, 2018 15:17:17 GMT -6
quite to the contrary, after reading your posts for over 20 years (way back on KR) I think your posts are well thought out and intelligent, hence my question as to the basis of your comments. I figured you must have had more to base it on than just the 2 hours of game time. I will say I find it a bit ironic that in paragraph 3, you highlight how foolish most people are when they think they know how to do someones job better than others, but then proceed to do just that. I would also say that I disagree with your assertion that private sector individuals come under scrutiny, but others don't. In fact I would argue that the three most scrutinized jobs that "EVERYONE" can do better than the person performing it are 1) Sports official, 2) Sports Coach 3) President of United States. I don't ever see someone jumping on social media or a message board telling everyone how Jamie Dimon is a moron, and explaining how they would run JP Morgan Chase instead. The scrutiny you describe are very specific instances where the complaints are specific to the complainer. They stem from one on one interactions between the complainer and the person being complained about. The scrutiny officials and coaches receive are much wider and more frequent. Apples to oranges. As a member of that fraternity, I don't think that coaches are beyond reproach. My point was simply that 95% of the complaints, comments, criticisms are made by people ignorant of the actual tasks being performed. For example, the biggest seems to be playcalling. Fans seem to think that if a run was called, and was not successful, than a pass would have been (and vice versa). That just isn't so. Unsuccessful plays usually occur because someone's son failed to do his job, not because the coach called the wrong play. Another example, years ago I was in the stands when a Prominent small New Orleans Private school was defeated for the 3 or 4th year in a row by another private school with a much more blue collar enrollment. After getting fed up hearing the St. Charles Street parents complaining that they were being "outcoached" I pointed out to them that while their sons were travelling through Europe for 5 weeks, their opponents spent the summer working manual labor jobs and lifting weights. I pointed out to another set of parents that while their kids were visiting colleges the first week of August, their opponents were partaking in two-a-day practices. Essentially I was pointing out to them that "coaching" wasn't just the 2 hours they saw on Friday nights, and to be more aware of what went into it before deciding that one staff was inferior to another. Getting back to my original point though, I just thought you would have had a stronger basis on which to proclaim that a staff with 20 wins over 2 years wouldn't be "good enough". Maybe you had seen their practices, and thought they lacked intensity or attention to detail. Maybe you were aware that their in school and off season conditioning program was not well organized or attended. Maybe you had seen over the past several seasons that their schemes were unsound, but superior athleticism prevailed. Maybe you knew that Coach Dawson's previous staff had left, and he was basically manning the ship himself, with a view CECP coaches who lacked experience.
I will say I find it a bit ironic that in paragraph 3, you highlight how foolish most people are when they think they know how to do someones job better than others, but then proceed to do just that.
There is no irony at all. The point you missed was that most all of us deal with situations like that, but most of us have to grin and bear it. We can't tell the people we deal with (often our customers) that they don't know what they are talking about because they do not know how much time, training, effort, and planning goes into what we do. The old saying "the customer is always right" applies to us even though it is a lie. They are not always right, but they are always the customer.
I would also say that I disagree with your assertion that private sector individuals come under scrutiny, but others don't. Again, you missed the point, because I said no such thing.
Getting back to my original point though, I just thought you would have had a stronger basis on which to proclaim that a staff with 20 wins over 2 years wouldn't be "good enough".I am a butt ...... but, I did not go into detail when I made the statement nor do I feel like doing so at this time. I will say that my opinion is simply based on observations during the games and has nothing to do with practice, training, conditioning, etc.
I am curious, would you have challenged me at all if I had praised a couch or an official?
Who would praise a couch? Are you drinking and typing?
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Post by BGH on Sept 4, 2018 15:34:24 GMT -6
I will say I find it a bit ironic that in paragraph 3, you highlight how foolish most people are when they think they know how to do someones job better than others, but then proceed to do just that.
There is no irony at all. The point you missed was that most all of us deal with situations like that, but most of us have to grin and bear it. We can't tell the people we deal with (often our customers) that they don't know what they are talking about because they do not know how much time, training, effort, and planning goes into what we do. The old saying "the customer is always right" applies to us even though it is a lie. They are not always right, but they are always the customer.
I would also say that I disagree with your assertion that private sector individuals come under scrutiny, but others don't. Again, you missed the point, because I said no such thing.
Getting back to my original point though, I just thought you would have had a stronger basis on which to proclaim that a staff with 20 wins over 2 years wouldn't be "good enough".I am a butt ...... but, I did not go into detail when I made the statement nor do I feel like doing so at this time. I will say that my opinion is simply based on observations during the games and has nothing to do with practice, training, conditioning, etc.
I am curious, would you have challenged me at all if I had praised a couch or an official?
Who would praise a couch? Are you drinking and typing?
You will know if I am drinking, when I put them on a "pedi stool"
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Post by indy on Sept 4, 2018 15:41:39 GMT -6
Who would praise a couch? Are you drinking and typing?
You will know if I am drinking, when I put them on a "pedi stool"
Lol. The pedi stool I put Evangel on was the little stools the Asian women sill on when they give pedicures - pedi stools. A pedestal is actually to high to put E on now.
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Post by retired on Sept 4, 2018 17:12:09 GMT -6
quite to the contrary, after reading your posts for over 20 years (way back on KR) I think your posts are well thought out and intelligent, hence my question as to the basis of your comments. I figured you must have had more to base it on than just the 2 hours of game time. I will say I find it a bit ironic that in paragraph 3, you highlight how foolish most people are when they think they know how to do someones job better than others, but then proceed to do just that. I would also say that I disagree with your assertion that private sector individuals come under scrutiny, but others don't. In fact I would argue that the three most scrutinized jobs that "EVERYONE" can do better than the person performing it are 1) Sports official, 2) Sports Coach 3) President of United States. I don't ever see someone jumping on social media or a message board telling everyone how Jamie Dimon is a moron, and explaining how they would run JP Morgan Chase instead. The scrutiny you describe are very specific instances where the complaints are specific to the complainer. They stem from one on one interactions between the complainer and the person being complained about. The scrutiny officials and coaches receive are much wider and more frequent. Apples to oranges. As a member of that fraternity, I don't think that coaches are beyond reproach. My point was simply that 95% of the complaints, comments, criticisms are made by people ignorant of the actual tasks being performed. For example, the biggest seems to be playcalling. Fans seem to think that if a run was called, and was not successful, than a pass would have been (and vice versa). That just isn't so. Unsuccessful plays usually occur because someone's son failed to do his job, not because the coach called the wrong play. Another example, years ago I was in the stands when a Prominent small New Orleans Private school was defeated for the 3 or 4th year in a row by another private school with a much more blue collar enrollment. After getting fed up hearing the St. Charles Street parents complaining that they were being "outcoached" I pointed out to them that while their sons were travelling through Europe for 5 weeks, their opponents spent the summer working manual labor jobs and lifting weights. I pointed out to another set of parents that while their kids were visiting colleges the first week of August, their opponents were partaking in two-a-day practices. Essentially I was pointing out to them that "coaching" wasn't just the 2 hours they saw on Friday nights, and to be more aware of what went into it before deciding that one staff was inferior to another. Getting back to my original point though, I just thought you would have had a stronger basis on which to proclaim that a staff with 20 wins over 2 years wouldn't be "good enough". Maybe you had seen their practices, and thought they lacked intensity or attention to detail. Maybe you were aware that their in school and off season conditioning program was not well organized or attended. Maybe you had seen over the past several seasons that their schemes were unsound, but superior athleticism prevailed. Maybe you knew that Coach Dawson's previous staff had left, and he was basically manning the ship himself, with a view CECP coaches who lacked experience.
I will say I find it a bit ironic that in paragraph 3, you highlight how foolish most people are when they think they know how to do someones job better than others, but then proceed to do just that.
There is no irony at all. The point you missed was that most all of us deal with situations like that, but most of us have to grin and bear it. We can't tell the people we deal with (often our customers) that they don't know what they are talking about because they do not know how much time, training, effort, and planning goes into what we do. The old saying "the customer is always right" applies to us even though it is a lie. They are not always right, but they are always the customer.
I would also say that I disagree with your assertion that private sector individuals come under scrutiny, but others don't. Again, you missed the point, because I said no such thing.
Getting back to my original point though, I just thought you would have had a stronger basis on which to proclaim that a staff with 20 wins over 2 years wouldn't be "good enough".I am a butt ...... but, I did not go into detail when I made the statement nor do I feel like doing so at this time. I will say that my opinion is simply based on observations during the games and has nothing to do with practice, training, conditioning, etc.
I am curious, would you have challenged me at all if I had praised a couch or an official?
Points 1 and 2 - And coaches, officials, etc DON'T have to grin and bear it? Coach Dawson doesn't have to "grin and bear it" after you publicly state that you don't think he and his staff are good enough (Despite winning 20 games over 2 years, and a State Title) That was the irony. That EVERYONE has to deal with that, particularly the ones you said feel they are "beyond reproach". Coaches, officials, and elected leaders are among the most criticized of all professions. I don't think any of them believe they are beyond reproach (although one could say many elected leaders act as if they truly don't care....but I digress) Point 3-This is where my comments were quite specific, because you directed them at Evangel and their coaching. Evangel, who has won 20 games over 2 years, and a state title. What about their coaching and coaching staff has changed? What sort of things did you see? Lack of organization on the sideline? Multiple instances of confusion and disorganization (procedure penalties, substitution errors etc)? As for the last question, the answer would depend again on the factors mentioned above. I feel my beliefs are consistent, as evidenced in the thread about Destrehan where I maintain that after seeing them play, I would not call Slidell High a "VERY GOOD" team. Southplaq disagrees, based on....NOTHING. Based on his own "study and research" (whatever that means) He tried to say his claims were valid, and that you don't need to see a team to say they are very good. His examples--Bama, U High, and Karr. Three teams that have multiple championships and dbl digit winning seasons the last several seasons. He believes that saying he can claim a Slidell High team that hosted its first playoff game in 11 years (and lost it) and that was pushed around by Lakeshore and crushed by Destrehan is VERY GOOD based on his "study and research" (again, whatever that means) even though he has never seen them play. I argue that is quite foolish to anoint them VERY GOOD at this point, particularly since I have seen them play. So who would you praise and why? If you praised someone who has a body of work that year in and year out supports the claim, I would probably second your opinion. If you made the statement "That team seems to be well coached. There were no procedure penalties, no substitution issues, they were well organized on the sideline " I would probably agree. If you just made a blanket statement I would find it questionable.
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Post by BGH on Sept 4, 2018 19:00:56 GMT -6
I will say I find it a bit ironic that in paragraph 3, you highlight how foolish most people are when they think they know how to do someones job better than others, but then proceed to do just that.
There is no irony at all. The point you missed was that most all of us deal with situations like that, but most of us have to grin and bear it. We can't tell the people we deal with (often our customers) that they don't know what they are talking about because they do not know how much time, training, effort, and planning goes into what we do. The old saying "the customer is always right" applies to us even though it is a lie. They are not always right, but they are always the customer.
I would also say that I disagree with your assertion that private sector individuals come under scrutiny, but others don't. Again, you missed the point, because I said no such thing.
Getting back to my original point though, I just thought you would have had a stronger basis on which to proclaim that a staff with 20 wins over 2 years wouldn't be "good enough".I am a butt ...... but, I did not go into detail when I made the statement nor do I feel like doing so at this time. I will say that my opinion is simply based on observations during the games and has nothing to do with practice, training, conditioning, etc.
I am curious, would you have challenged me at all if I had praised a couch or an official?
Points 1 and 2 - And coaches, officials, etc DON'T have to grin and bear it? Coach Dawson doesn't have to "grin and bear it" after you publicly state that you don't think he and his staff are good enough (Despite winning 20 games over 2 years, and a State Title) That was the irony. That EVERYONE has to deal with that, particularly the ones you said feel they are "beyond reproach". Coaches, officials, and elected leaders are among the most criticized of all professions. I don't think any of them believe they are beyond reproach (although one could say many elected leaders act as if they truly don't care....but I digress) Point 3-This is where my comments were quite specific, because you directed them at Evangel and their coaching. Evangel, who has won 20 games over 2 years, and a state title. What about their coaching and coaching staff has changed? What sort of things did you see? Lack of organization on the sideline? Multiple instances of confusion and disorganization (procedure penalties, substitution errors etc)? As for the last question, the answer would depend again on the factors mentioned above. I feel my beliefs are consistent, as evidenced in the thread about Destrehan where I maintain that after seeing them play, I would not call Slidell High a "VERY GOOD" team. Southplaq disagrees, based on....NOTHING. Based on his own "study and research" (whatever that means) He tried to say his claims were valid, and that you don't need to see a team to say they are very good. His examples--Bama, U High, and Karr. Three teams that have multiple championships and dbl digit winning seasons the last several seasons. He believes that saying he can claim a Slidell High team that hosted its first playoff game in 11 years (and lost it) and that was pushed around by Lakeshore and crushed by Destrehan is VERY GOOD based on his "study and research" (again, whatever that means) even though he has never seen them play. I argue that is quite foolish to anoint them VERY GOOD at this point, particularly since I have seen them play. So who would you praise and why? If you praised someone who has a body of work that year in and year out supports the claim, I would probably second your opinion. If you made the statement "That team seems to be well coached. There were no procedure penalties, no substitution issues, they were well organized on the sideline " I would probably agree. If you just made a blanket statement I would find it questionable.
We are just repeating the same things.
I have already said that I was not going to elaborate on my criticism of the Evangel coaching staff and I won't be goaded into it, although I have a feeling you know exactly what I meant without me saying it.
I was just curious that if I were to praise a coaching staff would you have been as quick to question whether I had attended practice and conditioning in the spring and preseason. You might have questioned it in your mind, but I think we both know you would not have been moved to question me about it on the board, even though I would be the same uninformed fan.
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Post by retired on Sept 4, 2018 20:46:15 GMT -6
Points 1 and 2 - And coaches, officials, etc DON'T have to grin and bear it? Coach Dawson doesn't have to "grin and bear it" after you publicly state that you don't think he and his staff are good enough (Despite winning 20 games over 2 years, and a State Title) That was the irony. That EVERYONE has to deal with that, particularly the ones you said feel they are "beyond reproach". Coaches, officials, and elected leaders are among the most criticized of all professions. I don't think any of them believe they are beyond reproach (although one could say many elected leaders act as if they truly don't care....but I digress) Point 3-This is where my comments were quite specific, because you directed them at Evangel and their coaching. Evangel, who has won 20 games over 2 years, and a state title. What about their coaching and coaching staff has changed? What sort of things did you see? Lack of organization on the sideline? Multiple instances of confusion and disorganization (procedure penalties, substitution errors etc)? As for the last question, the answer would depend again on the factors mentioned above. I feel my beliefs are consistent, as evidenced in the thread about Destrehan where I maintain that after seeing them play, I would not call Slidell High a "VERY GOOD" team. Southplaq disagrees, based on....NOTHING. Based on his own "study and research" (whatever that means) He tried to say his claims were valid, and that you don't need to see a team to say they are very good. His examples--Bama, U High, and Karr. Three teams that have multiple championships and dbl digit winning seasons the last several seasons. He believes that saying he can claim a Slidell High team that hosted its first playoff game in 11 years (and lost it) and that was pushed around by Lakeshore and crushed by Destrehan is VERY GOOD based on his "study and research" (again, whatever that means) even though he has never seen them play. I argue that is quite foolish to anoint them VERY GOOD at this point, particularly since I have seen them play. So who would you praise and why? If you praised someone who has a body of work that year in and year out supports the claim, I would probably second your opinion. If you made the statement "That team seems to be well coached. There were no procedure penalties, no substitution issues, they were well organized on the sideline " I would probably agree. If you just made a blanket statement I would find it questionable.
We are just repeating the same things.
I have already said that I was not going to elaborate on my criticism of the Evangel coaching staff and I won't be goaded into it, although I have a feeling you know exactly what I meant without me saying it.
I was just curious that if I were to praise a coaching staff would you have been as quick to question whether I had attended practice and conditioning in the spring and preseason. You might have questioned it in your mind, but I think we both know you would not have been moved to question me about it on the board, even though I would be the same uninformed fan.
Last things first, is EVERYONE on this board so defensive? Has this board become so full of vitriol and trolling that everyone views any questions or comments as a direct assault, or attack? Also, as I mentioned , I probably would have depending on the situation. I challenged Southplaq as to calling Slidell High a "VERY GOOD" team (and somehow this means I have animosity against them???) Basically, having been away for a while, I was just hoping there would be more substantiated opinions here than the typical stuff you see on message boards. I honestly have NO idea what you are trying to convey about the ECA staff and its capabilities. As I have asked, has it changed significantly from the team that has won 29 games over 3 years and a State title while playing a challenging non district schedule? If you don't feel comfortable elaborating, that is fine, but then that begs the question why did you feel comfortable enough for the comment in the first place?
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