|
Post by iknownuthing on May 27, 2016 14:53:34 GMT -6
Most public school, pro-split supporters do not realize that there is little to no upside in offering a free ride. 1. you lose the space for a paying student when your school is full. 2. you lose the confidence from the parents that little johnny and suzie are going to get a fair tryout. 3. you destroy your support off the field from the disgruntled parents who pay the full ride. 4. you lose any additional donations to the sport when parents feel they have been cheated. 5. then you have to face the music when that student become an entitled problem on the team, in the locker room and in the classroom. 6. then you end up with a cross town rival that is taking the rest of your good students that did not exist before.
|
|
|
Post by indy on May 27, 2016 14:54:24 GMT -6
studly's father actually approached ND first but wanted a free ride. He was quickly sent on his merry way. Studly left CHS after his Jr year of football prior to midterm because he was already 18. So he had only had two years of high school. So his move was for academic reasons! Lol! Miraculously he went to Mississippi and in one semester finished 2,years of high school, passed his ACT and became college eligible!
|
|
|
Post by chalmetteowl on May 27, 2016 15:23:02 GMT -6
We are beating a dead horse. It is embedded in the public sector mindset, that if they decide to go out of parish to get athlete's with an agreement with another parish it is ok. They can also with a decision of the school board to establish an open door policy and allow all schools to choose their students in a parish, because the government does it, its ok. But if one student from an outside zone goes to a private school it's an unfair, inherent advantage. Its just time to move on and let bye gones be gone by. We will be fine and they will wonder what happened. Once we are gone look for the anger from the public schools to escalate. Total separation will not diminish that animosity, it will only heighten it with a whole new set of lies and accusations. But they will not be playing until the legislature finally intervenes and forces the LHSAA to allow extra associations competition from within the state.now this will happen eventually. fits will be thrown and litigation will be threatened Chalmette and Holy Cross have played every year since 1970 barring Katrina, and you think this issue will stop us permanently? the LHSAA will take a huge PR hit if they attempt to stop it
|
|
|
Post by publicgradprivatedad on May 27, 2016 15:54:46 GMT -6
Its just time to move on and let bye gones be gone by. We will be fine and they will wonder what happened. Once we are gone look for the anger from the public schools to escalate. Total separation will not diminish that animosity, it will only heighten it with a whole new set of lies and accusations. But they will not be playing until the legislature finally intervenes and forces the LHSAA to allow extra associations competition from within the state.now this will happen eventually. fits will be thrown and litigation will be threatened Chalmette and Holy Cross have played every year since 1970 barring Katrina, and you think this issue will stop us permanently? the LHSAA will take a huge PR hit if they attempt to stop it So the LHSAA will take a PR hit for stopping a rivalry game with the Catholic League, but not for anything else. This isn't the only rivalry game that will be lost if the private schools leave the LHSAA, so I don't know how you make any one more important than another. With the exception of the 2 schools in that rivalry.
|
|
|
Post by chalmetteowl on May 27, 2016 16:56:46 GMT -6
now this will happen eventually. fits will be thrown and litigation will be threatened Chalmette and Holy Cross have played every year since 1970 barring Katrina, and you think this issue will stop us permanently? the LHSAA will take a huge PR hit if they attempt to stop it So the LHSAA will take a PR hit for stopping a rivalry game with the Catholic League, but not for anything else. This isn't the only rivalry game that will be lost if the private schools leave the LHSAA, so I don't know how you make any one more important than another. With the exception of the 2 schools in that rivalry. i'm sure there are others, i'm just not familiar with them. the issue is that the LHSAA will be "meanies" for stopping games that had been played legally for all those years
|
|
|
Post by publicgradprivatedad on May 27, 2016 17:39:57 GMT -6
So the LHSAA will take a PR hit for stopping a rivalry game with the Catholic League, but not for anything else. This isn't the only rivalry game that will be lost if the private schools leave the LHSAA, so I don't know how you make any one more important than another. With the exception of the 2 schools in that rivalry. i'm sure there are others, i'm just not familiar with them. the issue is that the LHSAA will be "meanies" for stopping games that had been played legally for all those years It's not the LHSAA who would be stopping these games, it will be the "pro-split" principals. I understand that there are advantages "real or perceived" the private schools have, but there are better ways to fix them than splitting off 1/3 of the schools. If the private schools leave it will hurt both sides, but it may be to late.
|
|
|
Post by chalmetteowl on May 27, 2016 21:22:59 GMT -6
they'll make the argument that the private and catholic schools ended those rivalries when they left...
the bottom line is this will disappoint the fans more than anything, and there needs to be a message sent to the pro-split principals that they're doing so.
|
|
|
Post by eag on May 28, 2016 10:22:54 GMT -6
Most public school, pro-split supporters do not realize that there is little to no upside in offering a free ride. 1. you lose the space for a paying student when your school is full. 2. you lose the confidence from the parents that little johnny and suzie are going to get a fair tryout. 3. you destroy your support off the field from the disgruntled parents who pay the full ride. 4. you lose any additional donations to the sport when parents feel they have been cheated. 5. then you have to face the music when that student become an entitled problem on the team, in the locker room and in the classroom. 6. then you end up with a cross town rival that is taking the rest of your good students that did not exist before. So true! Interesting to note: reasons 2,3,4 and indirectly 6, all involve PARENTS. I think that is really the biggest reason behind private school success. It also is the reason for the success seen in the best public programs, many of which rival private schools. Having kids who do the extra work, have maybe played a sport consistently all their lives, take off-season seriously, etc. is the real key. That is why, IMO, you see so many successful programs win with essentially no D1 type talent. Raw talent is great to have, but playing a more 'advanced' game due to having more experienced or prepared kids is what separates a program, public or private.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 29, 2016 11:09:21 GMT -6
Most public school, pro-split supporters do not realize that there is little to no upside in offering a free ride. 1. you lose the space for a paying student when your school is full. 2. you lose the confidence from the parents that little johnny and suzie are going to get a fair tryout. 3. you destroy your support off the field from the disgruntled parents who pay the full ride. 4. you lose any additional donations to the sport when parents feel they have been cheated. 5. then you have to face the music when that student become an entitled problem on the team, in the locker room and in the classroom. 6. then you end up with a cross town rival that is taking the rest of your good students that did not exist before. So true! Interesting to note: reasons 2,3,4 and indirectly 6, all involve PARENTS. I think that is really the biggest reason behind private school success. It also is the reason for the success seen in the best public programs, many of which rival private schools. Having kids who do the extra work, have maybe played a sport consistently all their lives, take off-season seriously, etc. is the real key. That is why, IMO, you see so many successful programs win with essentially no D1 type talent. Raw talent is great to have, but playing a more 'advanced' game due to having more experienced or prepared kids is what separates a program, public or private. Absolutely, and a public school, by law, CANNOT turn away any inexperienced or ill prepared child. And thats a GOOD thing! The issue is a select school can and often does. That also is a GOOD thing! However, as you said, apples and oranges. No comparison academically or athletically in most cases.
|
|
|
Post by indy on May 29, 2016 11:21:52 GMT -6
So true! Interesting to note: reasons 2,3,4 and indirectly 6, all involve PARENTS. I think that is really the biggest reason behind private school success. It also is the reason for the success seen in the best public programs, many of which rival private schools. Having kids who do the extra work, have maybe played a sport consistently all their lives, take off-season seriously, etc. is the real key. That is why, IMO, you see so many successful programs win with essentially no D1 type talent. Raw talent is great to have, but playing a more 'advanced' game due to having more experienced or prepared kids is what separates a program, public or private. Absolutely, and a public school, by law, CANNOT turn away any inexperienced or ill prepared child. And thats a GOOD thing! The issue is a select school can and often does. That also is a GOOD thing! However, as you said, apples and oranges. No comparison academically or athletically in most cases. But you are a record setting coach and you just said you don't lose athletes to the private schools. Are you an apple or an orange? Good thing is giving you a safe place to sit.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 29, 2016 15:03:48 GMT -6
Absolutely, and a public school, by law, CANNOT turn away any inexperienced or ill prepared child. And thats a GOOD thing! The issue is a select school can and often does. That also is a GOOD thing! However, as you said, apples and oranges. No comparison academically or athletically in most cases. But you are a record setting coach and you just said you don't lose athletes to the private schools. Are you an apple or an orange? Good thing is giving you a safe place to sit. Youre correct, I dont lose kids to private schools. Others do. That doesnt change the point one bit. Private schools zone is the nation. Public schools have assigned zones assigned by the LEA. Even a retard like yourself can understand that.
|
|
laprepfb
All-District 1st Team
Posts: 227
|
Post by laprepfb on May 29, 2016 15:12:35 GMT -6
But you are a record setting coach and you just said you don't lose athletes to the private schools. Are you an apple or an orange? Good thing is giving you a safe place to sit. Youre correct, I dont lose kids to private schools. Others do. That doesnt change the point one bit. Private schools zone is the nation. Public schools have assigned zones assigned by the LEA. Even a retard like yourself can understand that. So what you are saying here is that every single athlete at every single "non-select" school lives in their LEA-assigned zone?
|
|
|
Post by indy on May 29, 2016 15:13:54 GMT -6
But you are a record setting coach and you just said you don't lose athletes to the private schools. Are you an apple or an orange? Good thing is giving you a safe place to sit. Youre correct, I dont lose kids to private schools. Others do. That doesnt change the point one bit. Private schools zone is the nation. Public schools have assigned zones assigned by the LEA. Even a retard like yourself can understand that. How is that corner you backed yourself in? So the latest excuse is back to zones? What about all the parishes that don't follow assigned zones?
|
|
|
Post by publicgradprivatedad on May 31, 2016 11:52:22 GMT -6
Youre correct, I dont lose kids to private schools. Others do. That doesnt change the point one bit. Private schools zone is the nation. Public schools have assigned zones assigned by the LEA. Even a retard like yourself can understand that. How is that corner you backed yourself in? So the latest excuse is back to zones? What about all the parishes that don't follow assigned zones? That is now being answered on another thread.
|
|
|
Post by eag on May 31, 2016 15:42:15 GMT -6
So true! Interesting to note: reasons 2,3,4 and indirectly 6, all involve PARENTS. I think that is really the biggest reason behind private school success. It also is the reason for the success seen in the best public programs, many of which rival private schools. Having kids who do the extra work, have maybe played a sport consistently all their lives, take off-season seriously, etc. is the real key. That is why, IMO, you see so many successful programs win with essentially no D1 type talent. Raw talent is great to have, but playing a more 'advanced' game due to having more experienced or prepared kids is what separates a program, public or private. Absolutely, and a public school, by law, CANNOT turn away any inexperienced or ill prepared child. And thats a GOOD thing! The issue is a select school can and often does. That also is a GOOD thing! However, as you said, apples and oranges. No comparison academically or athletically in most cases.Meh, I truly doubt that very many kids are turned down at private schools and I doubt if ANY are turned down after some type of athletic screening. But even with the constant crowing about the difference, I'd submit that the average public school has better overall athleticism and the average private has better overall 'participation' for lack of a better word. Offseason, experience, reliability, punctuality, etc. Why is one set of advantages ok, and the other set bad?
|
|
|
Post by publicgradprivatedad on Jun 1, 2016 13:07:07 GMT -6
Absolutely, and a public school, by law, CANNOT turn away any inexperienced or ill prepared child. And thats a GOOD thing! The issue is a select school can and often does. That also is a GOOD thing! However, as you said, apples and oranges. No comparison academically or athletically in most cases. Meh, I truly doubt that very many kids are turned down at private schools and I doubt if ANY are turned down after some type of athletic screening. But even with the constant crowing about the difference, I'd submit that the average public school has better overall athleticism and the average private has better overall 'participation' for lack of a better word. Offseason, experience, reliability, punctuality, etc. Why is one set of advantages ok, and the other set bad? No one is going to answer this because if the do they will be seen as hypocrites. Just look at the rosters from Many, Kinder, & Menard. Similiar schools all 2A Many & Menard are in same district. I would bet that the rosters for Many & Kinder will have more players that play at the next level or are playing at the next level currently, or were at least offered that opportunity if they qualify.
|
|
|
Post by chalmetteowl on Jun 1, 2016 13:11:49 GMT -6
Absolutely, and a public school, by law, CANNOT turn away any inexperienced or ill prepared child. And thats a GOOD thing! The issue is a select school can and often does. That also is a GOOD thing! However, as you said, apples and oranges. No comparison academically or athletically in most cases. Meh, I truly doubt that very many kids are turned down at private schools and I doubt if ANY are turned down after some type of athletic screening. But even with the constant crowing about the difference, I'd submit that the average public school has better overall athleticism and the average private has better overall 'participation' for lack of a better word. Offseason, experience, reliability, punctuality, etc. Why is one set of advantages ok, and the other set bad? I would venture to say that "athleticism" happens randomly, while private schools control their culture and participation...
|
|
|
Post by publicgradprivatedad on Jun 1, 2016 13:41:20 GMT -6
Meh, I truly doubt that very many kids are turned down at private schools and I doubt if ANY are turned down after some type of athletic screening. But even with the constant crowing about the difference, I'd submit that the average public school has better overall athleticism and the average private has better overall 'participation' for lack of a better word. Offseason, experience, reliability, punctuality, etc. Why is one set of advantages ok, and the other set bad? I would venture to say that "athleticism" happens randomly, while private schools control their culture and participation... Athleticism may be random, but I referenced Many, Kinder, & Menard rosters currently playing at the next level, offered to play at the next level (if qualified grades wise), or will be offered earlier in this thread. Culture? Are you talking about discipline and accountability? Then yes, I think Private schools do a better job at this than most Public schools. Participation? If you are talking about percentages participating in a sport not sure I agree for all Private schools. I think eag was talking about being accountable for off-season workouts, being on time,... not trying to speak for him, just how I read it.
|
|
|
Post by eag on Jun 1, 2016 13:58:38 GMT -6
pgpd, you are right about what I meant. And while I agree that athleticism is somewhat random, I believe it to be year in and year out better in most public schools than most private schools. The reason is because the public schools, while restricted to some type of a geographical zone, get ALL demographics, sizes, shapes, etc. Random distribution of athletes within a community will occur, but the public schools get the whole community.
Private schools, by and large, attract a certain demographic which is not correlated with pure athleticism. A few schools may be different, which is why I'm OK with a success metric. But overall, private rosters would lose a combine style competition pretty much every week.
Everyone says that dedication is a virtue, but now if a school wins primarily using dedication, it is unfair!?
|
|
|
Post by iknownuthing on Jun 1, 2016 16:26:23 GMT -6
Meh, I truly doubt that very many kids are turned down at private schools and I doubt if ANY are turned down after some type of athletic screening. But even with the constant crowing about the difference, I'd submit that the average public school has better overall athleticism and the average private has better overall 'participation' for lack of a better word. Offseason, experience, reliability, punctuality, etc. Why is one set of advantages ok, and the other set bad? I would venture to say that "athleticism" happens randomly, while private schools control their culture and participation... At STM, Football is a self cutting sport. At Comeaux they cut every year. STM has success Comeaux does not. Most public schools cut participation down to the number of uniforms they have lying around. STM and other privates buy new uniforms to accommodate as many that want to play. STM follows a very strick participation rule but is sole academic. If you are not making the grade, you don't suit up. Get your grades up and you can play or at least sit on the sideline and be a part of something bigger. Make a D or an F and you cannot travel with the team to an out of town game. Culture, participation, when you have 130 suited up for practice daily and you have 70+ on a freshman team you give every student the opportunity to be a part of something bigger than the great eternal ME,ME,ME. That has breed the culture of success, not recruitment, not an unfair zone, not an inherent selective choice of athletes from some mythical talent pool.
|
|
|
Post by eag on Jun 1, 2016 18:59:07 GMT -6
I wish I could like this post a thousand times.
Teams have success when being on the team is deemed important in the fabric of the school community. That's what I try to encourage with the kids at our school. Not go out and get outside kids- just get the kids to want to be on the team.
|
|
|
Post by 1stdown on Jun 1, 2016 20:05:31 GMT -6
I wish I could like this post a thousand times. Teams have success when being on the team is deemed important in the fabric of the school community. That's what I try to encourage with the kids at our school. Not go out and get outside kids- just get the kids to want to be on the team. I agree with this, and in kinder this is really what we have. Most of the parents in the stands now played together on the same field. This is why kinder travels so well. By the way, I have to admit that having more than one elementary/middle school feeding a high school is not normal for someone from this town. Weve always just had one! There are pluses and minuses from both perspectives I guess. And to the person who keeps asking if we have any out of zone people...You tell me, we just play ball.
|
|
|
Post by indy on Jun 2, 2016 4:30:23 GMT -6
I wish I could like this post a thousand times. Teams have success when being on the team is deemed important in the fabric of the school community. That's what I try to encourage with the kids at our school. Not go out and get outside kids- just get the kids to want to be on the team. I agree with this, and in kinder this is really what we have. Most of the parents in the stands now played together on the same field. This is why kinder travels so well. By the way, I have to admit that having more than one elementary/middle school feeding a high school is not normal for someone from this town. Weve always just had one! There are pluses and minuses from both perspectives I guess. And to the person who keeps asking if we have any out of zone people...You tell me, we just play ball. The person asking was asking btown. Btown is quick to bring up his perceived flaws with everyone else but goes dark when asked questions that he can't or won't answer. It's good to hear that y'all just play ball but the truth is y'all will never know if y'all are the best because of this stupid split, win or lose I would like to know.
|
|
|
Post by eag on Jun 2, 2016 8:00:31 GMT -6
I wish I could like this post a thousand times. Teams have success when being on the team is deemed important in the fabric of the school community. That's what I try to encourage with the kids at our school. Not go out and get outside kids- just get the kids to want to be on the team. I agree with this, and in kinder this is really what we have. Most of the parents in the stands now played together on the same field. This is why kinder travels so well. By the way, I have to admit that having more than one elementary/middle school feeding a high school is not normal for someone from this town. Weve always just had one! There are pluses and minuses from both perspectives I guess. And to the person who keeps asking if we have any out of zone people...You tell me, we just play ball. I'm not overly familiar with Kinder's program but I figured as much. I know it is certainly true at WM, Many, Mangham. Also true at JC, ND, etc. PDPG has referred to Many versus Menard on this site a few times. It looks like Many overall has the upper hand, and I cannot help but think that it is because Many has a really good program with very high participation rates and very high community support. When the community values participation on the team, all of a sudden things like off-season programs, extra workouts, showing up early to watch film, and other things become much easier to do. The kid doesn't feel like he's "giving up his summer" to go to's workouts because everyone else is doing it too. That's where all his friends are anyway. Programs win. Not how kids enroll in school. Many private schools have great programs. Many do not. Many public schools have great programs. Many do not. Let's play ball. It upsets me that we will never play Kinder in a playoff. I doubt we could beat them but would be fun to go there and see.
|
|
|
Post by 1stdown on Jun 2, 2016 19:45:39 GMT -6
Kinder will have some up and down years coming up. But winning is contagious, participation is definitely up and the stadium is always full. Just think of this, if kinder was the only football playing school in allen parish. We could have oakdale and oberlin athletes too, this would bring in some from elton. You could have an allstar team every year, with no drop in talent any year. In my opinion, this wouldnt allow each community to really be "itself". There would only be tradition at the one school, and thats not what small-town football is about. Remember, the split was really about a couple football factories...not all private schools.
|
|
|
Post by indy on Jun 2, 2016 20:03:04 GMT -6
Kinder will have some up and down years coming up. But winning is contagious, participation is definitely up and the stadium is always full. Just think of this, if kinder was the only football playing school in allen parish. We could have oakdale and oberlin athletes too, this would bring in some from elton. You could have an allstar team every year, with no drop in talent any year. In my opinion, this wouldnt allow each community to really be "itself". There would only be tradition at the one school, and thats not what small-town football is about. Remember, the split was really about a couple football factories...not all private schools. If kinder would be the only team in Allen parish they would be a 4a All star team that would get skull drug by Nevelle, Karr, Easton, and many others.
|
|
laprepfb
All-District 1st Team
Posts: 227
|
Post by laprepfb on Jun 2, 2016 20:21:46 GMT -6
Kinder will have some up and down years coming up. But winning is contagious, participation is definitely up and the stadium is always full. Just think of this, if kinder was the only football playing school in allen parish. We could have oakdale and oberlin athletes too, this would bring in some from elton. You could have an allstar team every year, with no drop in talent any year. In my opinion, this wouldnt allow each community to really be "itself". There would only be tradition at the one school, and thats not what small-town football is about. Remember, the split was really about a couple football factories...not all private schools. If kinder would be the only team in Allen parish they would be a 4a All star team that would get skull drug by Nevelle, Karr, Easton, and many others. It is interesting that the three schools you mentioned, while being "non-select", have their own "inherent advantages" when compared to say an Allen Parish all-star team. Namely that Karr and Easton are in Orleans Parish, which does not follow traditional zones and Neville is the only non-failing school in the Monroe City School system, which allows them to get athletes from Carroll and Wossman.
|
|
|
Post by indy on Jun 2, 2016 20:38:12 GMT -6
If kinder would be the only team in Allen parish they would be a 4a All star team that would get skull drug by Nevelle, Karr, Easton, and many others. It is interesting that the three schools you mentioned, while being "non-select", have their own "inherent advantages" when compared to say an Allen Parish all-star team. Namely that Karr and Easton are in Orleans Parish, which does not follow traditional zones and Neville is the only non-failing school in the Monroe City School system, which allows them to get athletes from Carroll and Wossman. You are right but what is really interesting is the state is littered with unique schools with a shipload of differences. There are more differences than there alike. You can't find a true and fair way to split if you got NASA involved. The fairest way is divide by size, wow thats a simple and unique idea!
|
|
|
Post by publicgradprivatedad on Jun 3, 2016 13:13:51 GMT -6
It is interesting that the three schools you mentioned, while being "non-select", have their own "inherent advantages" when compared to say an Allen Parish all-star team. Namely that Karr and Easton are in Orleans Parish, which does not follow traditional zones and Neville is the only non-failing school in the Monroe City School system, which allows them to get athletes from Carroll and Wossman. You are right but what is really interesting is the state is littered with unique schools with a shipload of differences. There are more differences than there alike. You can't find a true and fair way to split if you got NASA involved. The fairest way is divide by size, wow thats a simple and unique idea! I think dividing the schools by size is the beginning. A success metric much like the Indiana Plan, I think would be the 2nd step, and allowing schools to play up by sport, 3rd. I agree that a competition committee would be nice for appeals, but not exactly sure how to set that up.
|
|
|
Post by publicgradprivatedad on Jun 7, 2016 11:26:03 GMT -6
So now that we are only 1 day away from the vote, what do y'all anticipate happening?
Do any of the 4 plans get enough votes or does the (5th plan) leave it like it is? If it's the 5th, what do you think the Catholic schools, other private schools, charter, & lab schools do?
If it's one of the 4, which one?
|
|