bob
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Post by bob on Jun 10, 2016 6:49:32 GMT -6
Now that the playoff split has been confirmed, there will obviously be talk of forming a new association. I have seen plenty of references by the supporters of the split that say "see ya later" if you want to leave LHSAA. I am just wondering if you guys have considered the following possibilities if a new association is formed.
1. The new association will probably allow immediate eligibility for kids leaving an LHSAA school to attend a new association school. Is there any concern by public school advocates that this could lead to wide open recruiting by private schools since there would be no requirement to sit out a year when transferring? I know many of you feel recruiting already goes on but I think we all agree that the current LHSAA rule that transfers have to sit keeps the number of kids transferring pretty low once they get to high school. Just wondering if there has been any consideration of this.
2. Do you think major sponsors such as the All State Sugar Bowl will continue to support LHSAA, switch their sponsorship to the new assn., sponsor both or drop both?
3. Do you think any traditional public schools choose to leave LHSAA and join the new association? There have been a number of public school coaches and ADs that have been critical of the split such as Zachary & Hahnville. What is the likelihood of school such as these choosing to leave LHSAA as well? Make no mistake that for those pushing the creation of a new association, the intention is to actively pursue public schools such as these.
I am not looking to get into a silly name calling contest here. I am looking for genuine opinions by public school supporters of the split.
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Post by indy on Jun 10, 2016 6:58:01 GMT -6
Now that the playoff split has been confirmed, there will obviously be talk of forming a new association. I have seen plenty of references by the supporters of the split that say "see ya later" if you want to leave LHSAA. I am just wondering if you guys have considered the following possibilities if a new association is formed.
1. The new association will probably allow immediate eligibility for kids leaving an LHSAA school to attend a new association school. Is there any concern by public school advocates that this could lead to wide open recruiting by private schools since there would be no requirement to sit out a year when transferring? I know many of you feel recruiting already goes on but I think we all agree that the current LHSAA rule that transfers have to sit keeps the number of kids transferring pretty low once they get to high school. Just wondering if there has been any consideration of this.
2. Do you think major sponsors such as the All State Sugar Bowl will continue to support LHSAA, switch their sponsorship to the new assn., sponsor both or drop both?
3. Do you think any traditional public schools choose to leave LHSAA and join the new association? There have been a number of public school coaches and ADs that have been critical of the split such as Zachary & Hahnville. What is the likelihood of school such as these choosing to leave LHSAA as well? Make no mistake that for those pushing the creation of a new association, the intention is to actively pursue public schools such as these.
I am not looking to get into a silly name calling contest here. I am looking for genuine opinions by public school supporters of the split. So you only want answers from public supporters? Might get boring. Just saying
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bob
JV
Posts: 32
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Post by bob on Jun 10, 2016 7:03:46 GMT -6
That was probably a poor choice of words by me. I welcome all opinions but I am especially curious to hear responses by those supporting the playoff split.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Jun 10, 2016 7:07:52 GMT -6
Now that the playoff split has been confirmed, there will obviously be talk of forming a new association. I have seen plenty of references by the supporters of the split that say "see ya later" if you want to leave LHSAA. I am just wondering if you guys have considered the following possibilities if a new association is formed.
1. The new association will probably allow immediate eligibility for kids leaving an LHSAA school to attend a new association school. Is there any concern by public school advocates that this could lead to wide open recruiting by private schools since there would be no requirement to sit out a year when transferring? I know many of you feel recruiting already goes on but I think we all agree that the current LHSAA rule that transfers have to sit keeps the number of kids transferring pretty low once they get to high school. Just wondering if there has been any consideration of this.
2. Do you think major sponsors such as the All State Sugar Bowl will continue to support LHSAA, switch their sponsorship to the new assn., sponsor both or drop both?
3. Do you think any traditional public schools choose to leave LHSAA and join the new association? There have been a number of public school coaches and ADs that have been critical of the split such as Zachary & Hahnville. What is the likelihood of school such as these choosing to leave LHSAA as well? Make no mistake that for those pushing the creation of a new association, the intention is to actively pursue public schools such as these.
I am not looking to get into a silly name calling contest here. I am looking for genuine opinions by public school supporters of the split. 1. I believe the new association will come, maybe not this year, but by 2017-18 school year. As for recruiting the public schools players, a few schools might, but I don't believe it will be done by most of them. 2. All State Sugar Bowl already had mixed emotions about the split. I think they may ride out this year, but not sure what they will do if new association is formed. I am more upset about the game of the week, there are other places to play the champion ship game. 3. I do believe that some public schools will go to the new association if formed. I think the ISD schools can move, but don't think many school boards will allow their schools to move.
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Post by indy on Jun 10, 2016 7:27:07 GMT -6
I would like to stay together and have each side control their own playoffs. No dome, no tiger stadium. Go back to home and away. Keep it simple stupid philosophy. Less jealously and animosity. It's high school for Petes sake. Make the finals about a championship and not a destination. And the heck with the sponsors, this way you don't need them to that degree.
But, I think the LHSAA is destroyed. It is now controlled by a block of self serving principals who forgot what the LHSAA is about. So I'm guessing a new organization will be formed. My hopes it starts with the spirit of the LHSAA did except for the principals control. I hope it is inviting and not exclusive. I hope they can shake hands with the LHSAA and still allow regular season rivalries to continue. I hope both organizations get in sync with neighboring states to allow border games and new rivalries to form. I hope animosity goes away so people in towns with teams in different leagues can pull for each other.
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Post by chalmetteowl on Jun 10, 2016 7:50:09 GMT -6
Now that the playoff split has been confirmed, there will obviously be talk of forming a new association. I have seen plenty of references by the supporters of the split that say "see ya later" if you want to leave LHSAA. I am just wondering if you guys have considered the following possibilities if a new association is formed.
1. The new association will probably allow immediate eligibility for kids leaving an LHSAA school to attend a new association school. Is there any concern by public school advocates that this could lead to wide open recruiting by private schools since there would be no requirement to sit out a year when transferring? I know many of you feel recruiting already goes on but I think we all agree that the current LHSAA rule that transfers have to sit keeps the number of kids transferring pretty low once they get to high school. Just wondering if there has been any consideration of this.
2. Do you think major sponsors such as the All State Sugar Bowl will continue to support LHSAA, switch their sponsorship to the new assn., sponsor both or drop both?
3. Do you think any traditional public schools choose to leave LHSAA and join the new association? There have been a number of public school coaches and ADs that have been critical of the split such as Zachary & Hahnville. What is the likelihood of school such as these choosing to leave LHSAA as well? Make no mistake that for those pushing the creation of a new association, the intention is to actively pursue public schools such as these.
I am not looking to get into a silly name calling contest here. I am looking for genuine opinions by public school supporters of the split. 1. public schools will just have to do a better job of keeping their kids happy... find the best coaches possible, update the facilities... don't think West Monroe, etc. will be losing too many kids. hopefully we don't either. the rest of our district might get picked clean 2. the politically correct thing to do will be to sponsor both, since that's what these sponsorships are about... good PR 3. we'll see how it runs and who else joins... i'd hope we can celebrate the LHSAA at 100 since that's where we've been, but we owe it to the kids and community to consider the new organization if it's run better
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2016 8:38:44 GMT -6
There are another couple of issues that need more immediate attention. The contracted sites for championships say they cannot accommodate the new numbers. Of course they said that before the vote, but "I want a trophy" prevented anyone from addressing that part. So, now the idea is to cut down on the number of kids getting to go to the championship tournaments. Sorta knife in the back of the voters who just voted to get his/her school there. Another issue is that principles just voted to have a 10 team "division" for playoffs. You guys are talking about cutting it down to 16, but voted in a dang 10 team Championship. Who will sponsor that? We need to stop saying this is about the kids. This is about the coaches (see bobjohnson).
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Post by Raven on Jun 10, 2016 8:41:56 GMT -6
Ok, not picking on any one person because I've seen a number of people do it, but when referencing a group of people or schools who have agreed to vote a certain way every time, the term is a "voting bloc" with no "k" at the end.
Carry on.
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Post by indy on Jun 10, 2016 8:54:29 GMT -6
Ok, not picking on any one person because I've seen a number of people do it, but when referencing a group of people or schools who have agreed to vote a certain way every time, the term is a "voting bloc" with no "k" at the end. Carry on. It's pretty much me. Thanks for grammar lesson. But I'll stick with block. "Voting block" "block heads" hence, voting block
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Post by fuzzy on Jun 10, 2016 10:11:16 GMT -6
Now that the playoff split has been confirmed, there will obviously be talk of forming a new association. I have seen plenty of references by the supporters of the split that say "see ya later" if you want to leave LHSAA. I am just wondering if you guys have considered the following possibilities if a new association is formed.
1. The new association will probably allow immediate eligibility for kids leaving an LHSAA school to attend a new association school. Is there any concern by public school advocates that this could lead to wide open recruiting by private schools since there would be no requirement to sit out a year when transferring? I know many of you feel recruiting already goes on but I think we all agree that the current LHSAA rule that transfers have to sit keeps the number of kids transferring pretty low once they get to high school. Just wondering if there has been any consideration of this.
2. Do you think major sponsors such as the All State Sugar Bowl will continue to support LHSAA, switch their sponsorship to the new assn., sponsor both or drop both?
3. Do you think any traditional public schools choose to leave LHSAA and join the new association? There have been a number of public school coaches and ADs that have been critical of the split such as Zachary & Hahnville. What is the likelihood of school such as these choosing to leave LHSAA as well? Make no mistake that for those pushing the creation of a new association, the intention is to actively pursue public schools such as these.
I am not looking to get into a silly name calling contest here. I am looking for genuine opinions by public school supporters of the split. Awfully valid points. Some of these scenarios can get scary from the public school viewpoint. It's interesting to see how quiet the "public" side is on this thread.
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Post by indy on Jun 10, 2016 10:16:15 GMT -6
Now that the playoff split has been confirmed, there will obviously be talk of forming a new association. I have seen plenty of references by the supporters of the split that say "see ya later" if you want to leave LHSAA. I am just wondering if you guys have considered the following possibilities if a new association is formed.
1. The new association will probably allow immediate eligibility for kids leaving an LHSAA school to attend a new association school. Is there any concern by public school advocates that this could lead to wide open recruiting by private schools since there would be no requirement to sit out a year when transferring? I know many of you feel recruiting already goes on but I think we all agree that the current LHSAA rule that transfers have to sit keeps the number of kids transferring pretty low once they get to high school. Just wondering if there has been any consideration of this.
2. Do you think major sponsors such as the All State Sugar Bowl will continue to support LHSAA, switch their sponsorship to the new assn., sponsor both or drop both?
3. Do you think any traditional public schools choose to leave LHSAA and join the new association? There have been a number of public school coaches and ADs that have been critical of the split such as Zachary & Hahnville. What is the likelihood of school such as these choosing to leave LHSAA as well? Make no mistake that for those pushing the creation of a new association, the intention is to actively pursue public schools such as these.
I am not looking to get into a silly name calling contest here. I am looking for genuine opinions by public school supporters of the split. Awfully valid points. Some of these scenarios can get scary from the public school viewpoint. It's interesting to see how quiet the "public" side is on this thread. Whether the privates stay or leave the LHSAA is broken. The dominant "public" teams will be declared cheaters, recruiters, and zone busters.,yada yada yada
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Post by chalmetteowl on Jun 10, 2016 10:49:21 GMT -6
about the recruiting aspect, places like Many or Winnfield are so far out in the boonies, there's no one out there to recruit their kids, so they're not worried about it like South LA schools
and as for a new association, we'll see what the rules are. they might allow and even encourage recruiting compared to the LHSAA. Public schools in that might be permitted to do things they weren't allowed to before... i know Coach Salt is on top of things like that
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2016 12:25:28 GMT -6
Now that the playoff split has been confirmed, there will obviously be talk of forming a new association. I have seen plenty of references by the supporters of the split that say "see ya later" if you want to leave LHSAA. I am just wondering if you guys have considered the following possibilities if a new association is formed.
1. The new association will probably allow immediate eligibility for kids leaving an LHSAA school to attend a new association school. Is there any concern by public school advocates that this could lead to wide open recruiting by private schools since there would be no requirement to sit out a year when transferring? I know many of you feel recruiting already goes on but I think we all agree that the current LHSAA rule that transfers have to sit keeps the number of kids transferring pretty low once they get to high school. Just wondering if there has been any consideration of this.
2. Do you think major sponsors such as the All State Sugar Bowl will continue to support LHSAA, switch their sponsorship to the new assn., sponsor both or drop both?
3. Do you think any traditional public schools choose to leave LHSAA and join the new association? There have been a number of public school coaches and ADs that have been critical of the split such as Zachary & Hahnville. What is the likelihood of school such as these choosing to leave LHSAA as well? Make no mistake that for those pushing the creation of a new association, the intention is to actively pursue public schools such as these.
I am not looking to get into a silly name calling contest here. I am looking for genuine opinions by public school supporters of the split. Her are my honest thoughts... 1. This will work both ways... 2. LHSAA will lose some sponsors, some will sponsor both, some will stay with the LHSAA Exclusively. 3. I think very few if any publics will go to the new league. I think many more privates will stay in the LHSAA than publics leave.
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Post by indy on Jun 10, 2016 13:46:33 GMT -6
Now that the playoff split has been confirmed, there will obviously be talk of forming a new association. I have seen plenty of references by the supporters of the split that say "see ya later" if you want to leave LHSAA. I am just wondering if you guys have considered the following possibilities if a new association is formed.
1. The new association will probably allow immediate eligibility for kids leaving an LHSAA school to attend a new association school. Is there any concern by public school advocates that this could lead to wide open recruiting by private schools since there would be no requirement to sit out a year when transferring? I know many of you feel recruiting already goes on but I think we all agree that the current LHSAA rule that transfers have to sit keeps the number of kids transferring pretty low once they get to high school. Just wondering if there has been any consideration of this.
2. Do you think major sponsors such as the All State Sugar Bowl will continue to support LHSAA, switch their sponsorship to the new assn., sponsor both or drop both?
3. Do you think any traditional public schools choose to leave LHSAA and join the new association? There have been a number of public school coaches and ADs that have been critical of the split such as Zachary & Hahnville. What is the likelihood of school such as these choosing to leave LHSAA as well? Make no mistake that for those pushing the creation of a new association, the intention is to actively pursue public schools such as these.
I am not looking to get into a silly name calling contest here. I am looking for genuine opinions by public school supporters of the split. Her are my honest thoughts... 1. This will work both ways... 2. LHSAA will lose some sponsors, some will sponsor both, some will stay with the LHSAA Exclusively. 3. I think very few if any publics will go to the new league. I think many more privates will stay in the LHSAA than publics leave. So if some of the privates leave, the LHSAA all of a sudden is unbroken? So when only 3-4 teams in each class make the finals each year a new group of self serving principals won't cast their will on the rest?
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Jun 10, 2016 14:39:01 GMT -6
Now that the playoff split has been confirmed, there will obviously be talk of forming a new association. I have seen plenty of references by the supporters of the split that say "see ya later" if you want to leave LHSAA. I am just wondering if you guys have considered the following possibilities if a new association is formed.
1. The new association will probably allow immediate eligibility for kids leaving an LHSAA school to attend a new association school. Is there any concern by public school advocates that this could lead to wide open recruiting by private schools since there would be no requirement to sit out a year when transferring? I know many of you feel recruiting already goes on but I think we all agree that the current LHSAA rule that transfers have to sit keeps the number of kids transferring pretty low once they get to high school. Just wondering if there has been any consideration of this.
2. Do you think major sponsors such as the All State Sugar Bowl will continue to support LHSAA, switch their sponsorship to the new assn., sponsor both or drop both?
3. Do you think any traditional public schools choose to leave LHSAA and join the new association? There have been a number of public school coaches and ADs that have been critical of the split such as Zachary & Hahnville. What is the likelihood of school such as these choosing to leave LHSAA as well? Make no mistake that for those pushing the creation of a new association, the intention is to actively pursue public schools such as these.
I am not looking to get into a silly name calling contest here. I am looking for genuine opinions by public school supporters of the split. Awfully valid points. Some of these scenarios can get scary from the public school viewpoint. It's interesting to see how quiet the "public" side is on this thread. I posted this in another thread, this may be why some of the pro-split supporters may be hesitant to post on here........ Y'all (split supporters) have had the football split for 3 years, nothing changed. Now all major sports are split, plenty of time to see the results for the brackets, too many champions crowned, and nothing offered except full split. It could have been proposed at the Jan meeting to combine classes, make brackets smaller (16 team) but I don't think this was done because fewer principals would vote for it. It "the split" was made this way to get it voted in, now to "tweak" it let's see how many of the smaller (B/C) schools having to combine, 1A-3A schools that got used to making playoffs in football and now will in the other major sports like it when all of a sudden they won't. I feel that they created this, now let's watch as they "tweak" it--fewer champions and smaller brackets.
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Post by iknownuthing on Jun 10, 2016 15:05:39 GMT -6
Today the ARCH Bishop of New Orleans announced a commission of Bishops to study alternatives to the LHSAA.
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Post by chalmetteowl on Jun 10, 2016 15:57:31 GMT -6
Awfully valid points. Some of these scenarios can get scary from the public school viewpoint. It's interesting to see how quiet the "public" side is on this thread. I posted this in another thread, this may be why some of the pro-split supporters may be hesitant to post on here........ Y'all (split supporters) have had the football split for 3 years, nothing changed. Now all major sports are split, plenty of time to see the results for the brackets, too many champions crowned, and nothing offered except full split. It could have been proposed at the Jan meeting to combine classes, make brackets smaller (16 team) but I don't think this was done because fewer principals would vote for it. It "the split" was made this way to get it voted in, now to "tweak" it let's see how many of the smaller (B/C) schools having to combine, 1A-3A schools that got used to making playoffs in football and now will in the other major sports like it when all of a sudden they won't. I feel that they created this, now let's watch as they "tweak" it--fewer champions and smaller brackets. btown's excuse is that they were too busy to improve it, having to keep re-voting it in every year... FACT: 0-10 TEAMS MAKE THE FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS WHEN THEY NEVER DID BEFORE let me repeat that 0-10 TEAMS MAKE THE FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS WHEN THEY NEVER DID BEFORE don't think they didn't know that was gonna happen (in the small classes) at the very latest, after year 1, they should have taken their "split" majority and rectified this if they were going to that they haven't done this in three years tells me they might not ever intend to now i'm not a fan of the small classes. my school is 5A. my beef is the year my 5-5, 2nd in district 5A school missed the state playoffs by losing district by three points in the last minute, while 1A and 2A schools (and select schools too, let's be fair) waltz into the playoffs with whatever record
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Post by iknownuthing on Jun 10, 2016 16:02:16 GMT -6
I posted this in another thread, this may be why some of the pro-split supporters may be hesitant to post on here........ Y'all (split supporters) have had the football split for 3 years, nothing changed. Now all major sports are split, plenty of time to see the results for the brackets, too many champions crowned, and nothing offered except full split. It could have been proposed at the Jan meeting to combine classes, make brackets smaller (16 team) but I don't think this was done because fewer principals would vote for it. It "the split" was made this way to get it voted in, now to "tweak" it let's see how many of the smaller (B/C) schools having to combine, 1A-3A schools that got used to making playoffs in football and now will in the other major sports like it when all of a sudden they won't. I feel that they created this, now let's watch as they "tweak" it--fewer champions and smaller brackets. btown's excuse is that they were too busy to improve it, having to keep re-voting it in every year... FACT: 0-10 TEAMS MAKE THE FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS WHEN THEY NEVER DID BEFORE let me repeat that 0-10 TEAMS MAKE THE FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS WHEN THEY NEVER DID BEFORE don't think they didn't know that was gonna happen (in the small classes) at the very latest, after year 1, they should have taken their "split" majority and rectified this if they were going to that they haven't done this in three years tells me they might not ever intend to now i'm not a fan of the small classes. my school is 5A. my beef is the year my 5-5, 2nd in district 5A school missed the state playoffs by losing district by three points in the last minute, while 1A and 2A schools (and select schools too, let's be fair) waltz into the playoffs with whatever record Yeah, unfortunately the road map says you are going to see more not less of this. As more public schools consolidate to save $$$ you're going to see fewer 1A and 2AA schools out there. It is the exact opposite for us privates. More and more private schools will come in at the lower levels.
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Post by iknownuthing on Jun 10, 2016 16:03:59 GMT -6
btown's excuse is that they were too busy to improve it, having to keep re-voting it in every year... FACT: 0-10 TEAMS MAKE THE FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS WHEN THEY NEVER DID BEFORE let me repeat that 0-10 TEAMS MAKE THE FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS WHEN THEY NEVER DID BEFORE don't think they didn't know that was gonna happen (in the small classes) at the very latest, after year 1, they should have taken their "split" majority and rectified this if they were going to that they haven't done this in three years tells me they might not ever intend to now i'm not a fan of the small classes. my school is 5A. my beef is the year my 5-5, 2nd in district 5A school missed the state playoffs by losing district by three points in the last minute, while 1A and 2A schools (and select schools too, let's be fair) waltz into the playoffs with whatever record Yeah, unfortunately the road map says you are going to see more not less of this. As more public schools consolidate to save $$$ you're going to see fewer 1A and 2AA schools out there. It is the exact opposite for us privates. More and more private schools will come in at the lower levels. Plus, metro schools like in Lafayette will add schools that are split from larger public schools coming in at large 4A or small 5A levels.
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Post by indy on Jun 10, 2016 16:12:13 GMT -6
I posted this in another thread, this may be why some of the pro-split supporters may be hesitant to post on here........ Y'all (split supporters) have had the football split for 3 years, nothing changed. Now all major sports are split, plenty of time to see the results for the brackets, too many champions crowned, and nothing offered except full split. It could have been proposed at the Jan meeting to combine classes, make brackets smaller (16 team) but I don't think this was done because fewer principals would vote for it. It "the split" was made this way to get it voted in, now to "tweak" it let's see how many of the smaller (B/C) schools having to combine, 1A-3A schools that got used to making playoffs in football and now will in the other major sports like it when all of a sudden they won't. I feel that they created this, now let's watch as they "tweak" it--fewer champions and smaller brackets. btown's excuse is that they were too busy to improve it, having to keep re-voting it in every year... FACT: 0-10 TEAMS MAKE THE FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS WHEN THEY NEVER DID BEFORE let me repeat that 0-10 TEAMS MAKE THE FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS WHEN THEY NEVER DID BEFORE don't think they didn't know that was gonna happen (in the small classes) at the very latest, after year 1, they should have taken their "split" majority and rectified this if they were going to that they haven't done this in three years tells me they might not ever intend to now i'm not a fan of the small classes. my school is 5A. my beef is the year my 5-5, 2nd in district 5A school missed the state playoffs by losing district by three points in the last minute, while 1A and 2A schools (and select schools too, let's be fair) waltz into the playoffs with whatever record Man, Think before you post, geez. You against the split and you complaining about being 5-5 and not making the playoffs? What if the Catholic league, JC, and E were in 5a? You really wouldn't make it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2016 19:01:44 GMT -6
btown's excuse is that they were too busy to improve it, having to keep re-voting it in every year... FACT: 0-10 TEAMS MAKE THE FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS WHEN THEY NEVER DID BEFORE let me repeat that 0-10 TEAMS MAKE THE FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS WHEN THEY NEVER DID BEFORE don't think they didn't know that was gonna happen (in the small classes) at the very latest, after year 1, they should have taken their "split" majority and rectified this if they were going to that they haven't done this in three years tells me they might not ever intend to now i'm not a fan of the small classes. my school is 5A. my beef is the year my 5-5, 2nd in district 5A school missed the state playoffs by losing district by three points in the last minute, while 1A and 2A schools (and select schools too, let's be fair) waltz into the playoffs with whatever record Man, Think before you post, geez. You against the split and you complaining about being 5-5 and not making the playoffs? What if the Catholic league, JC, and E were in 5a? You really wouldn't make it. My opinion, it's not completely over. I'd get a good plan together. The metro/ rural plan won't work. The privates laugh at it. They view it as an attempt for a certain school to remain strong. I'm friends with several private school coaches, and that's the word. I'm not trying to piss u off. Just trying to help. The private schools need to develop ONE plan! They will need assistance from public schools that are open. Trust me! Enough influential coaches get together, it can and will work. The meeting the other day was stupid and pointless! The LHSAA has no leader. Y'all need to get together and hammer it out. All is not lost!
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Post by indy on Jun 10, 2016 19:16:43 GMT -6
Nice thought but you know and I know the self centered block of principals will not let it happen. They only want what's best for them and f@ck the rest. They don't even care about the larger publics. The LHSAA is broken, you know that too.
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Post by btown on Jun 10, 2016 19:50:19 GMT -6
I posted this in another thread, this may be why some of the pro-split supporters may be hesitant to post on here........ Y'all (split supporters) have had the football split for 3 years, nothing changed. Now all major sports are split, plenty of time to see the results for the brackets, too many champions crowned, and nothing offered except full split. It could have been proposed at the Jan meeting to combine classes, make brackets smaller (16 team) but I don't think this was done because fewer principals would vote for it. It "the split" was made this way to get it voted in, now to "tweak" it let's see how many of the smaller (B/C) schools having to combine, 1A-3A schools that got used to making playoffs in football and now will in the other major sports like it when all of a sudden they won't. I feel that they created this, now let's watch as they "tweak" it--fewer champions and smaller brackets. btown's excuse is that they were too busy to improve it, having to keep re-voting it in every year... FACT: 0-10 TEAMS MAKE THE FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS WHEN THEY NEVER DID BEFORE let me repeat that 0-10 TEAMS MAKE THE FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS WHEN THEY NEVER DID BEFORE don't think they didn't know that was gonna happen (in the small classes) at the very latest, after year 1, they should have taken their "split" majority and rectified this if they were going to that they haven't done this in three years tells me they might not ever intend to now i'm not a fan of the small classes. my school is 5A. my beef is the year my 5-5, 2nd in district 5A school missed the state playoffs by losing district by three points in the last minute, while 1A and 2A schools (and select schools too, let's be fair) waltz into the playoffs with whatever record If you going to put me in it tell it all. The meeting they were going to make changes Bonine said no give a year to look at it. What he did for he year is nothing but wait until the agenda was out for the next January meeting and saying the vote on the split was not valid go back to the old system. The leader of the LHSAA has done nothing so get it right.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2016 20:06:31 GMT -6
Nice thought but you know and I know the self centered block of principals will not let it happen. They only want what's best for them and f@ck the rest. They don't even care about the larger publics. The LHSAA is broken, you know that too. No, I disagree. The meeting that happens needs to involve public schools like Many, Kinder, sterlington, welsh, loreauville, and west St. John in 2a. 1a needs to be haynesville, kentwood, oak grove, and basile. 3a needs to be Iowa, westlake, amite, st james, and lutcher. 4a needs to be Neville, carencro, and a few others. 5a needs to be Acadiana and some New Orleans schools.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2016 20:09:37 GMT -6
Nice thought but you know and I know the self centered block of principals will not let it happen. They only want what's best for them and f@ck the rest. They don't even care about the larger publics. The LHSAA is broken, you know that too. No, I disagree. The meeting that happens needs to involve public schools like Many, Kinder, sterlington, welsh, loreauville, and west St. John in 2a. 1a needs to be haynesville, kentwood, oak grove, and basile. 3a needs to be Iowa, westlake, amite, st james, and lutcher. 4a needs to be Neville, carencro, and a few others. 5a needs to be Acadiana and some New Orleans schools. The executive committee members need to be there as well. If u play your cards right, you may not be split for baseball and basketball. We will be back together in 2016 and 2017 if you follow this.
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Post by kbanes on Jun 12, 2016 11:47:59 GMT -6
1. The new association will probably allow immediate eligibility for kids leaving an LHSAA school to attend a new association school. Is there any concern by public school advocates that this could lead to wide open recruiting by private schools since there would be no requirement to sit out a year when transferring?
I suspect that there will be no more nor no less of this than there was before. If you send your kids to private schools because the schools are better, then you really aren't going to change your decision based on a split. If you send your kids to private schools because of the athletics, then the jury is still out, based on what privates go where. But I don't see a huge change in either direction. Most parents will always try to find a way to get their kids in a better situation. If you had money, you took advantage of it. If you got a scholarship, you took advantage of it. The only way I see a real impact is if Privates increase the number of scholarships available. If they do, it will just validate the original presumptions of the non-selects.
I don't see a big impact either way.
2. Do you think major sponsors such as the All State Sugar Bowl will continue to support LHSAA, switch their sponsorship to the new assn., sponsor both or drop both?
I suspect that contracts will be renegotiated, and smaller, initially. Over time, it will all depend on what advertising always depends on. How many people will be watching my advertisement? Since I think that the statewide sponsorships are in place partially as a form of public service, most will be OK with a little drop off in viewership. I can't imagine that it will have ANY impact in local sponsorships. Both associations will likely split a slightly smaller pie. For a change in statewide sponsor dollars to help Selects and hurt the LHSAA, you would need to accept the fact that State Sponsors only do so to attract the eyeballs of select parents. And that is not what statewide sponsors are looking for. That type of marketing happens on the local level, and it is already in place now.
3. Do you think any traditional public schools choose to leave LHSAA and join the new association?
I would be surprised if ANY traditional public schools leave LHSAA. There is no upside that I can see. Yeah, you might lose out on a traditional rival, but it is going to increase your overall travel costs and scheduling concerns. I just don't see any school board allowing that to happen. My guess is zero.
The real question is how many privates stay in the LHSAA? That is the more important question. Again, travel and scheduling concerns will play a part. For some privates, the issues in play right now are a huge deal. but for others, not so much.
The reality is that forming a new association does nothing for Selects, other than letting you decide that there will be a split. It doesn't really provide you any tangible benefit. The outcome is the same either way. You can call it what ever you want, but you still have a split. You will play the same teams in the playoff that you play right now, you just drastically reduce the number of available opponents you have in the regular season. You certainly get to control your fate, but to a large degree, your fate is predetermined. Your administrative costs might go down, since you no longer have to keep up with LHSAA regulations. Scheduling will be easier, since you have fewer options. Travel may be harder, depending on metro/rural. You can promote as you see fit, but the outcome will almost always be decided by which system (LHSAA or Selects) get the most eyeballs. And generally, that is going to be the LHSAA.
As I take a quick look at football in our region, I don't see any Independent Athletic Association being the "bell cow" in the state. Sure, certain select schools in each state are dominant, but no independent association is dominant. If anyone can point me to an example of an independent association being the dominate association in a state, please let me know.
I don't think that a move to an independent association is going to hurt any private school in the short term. But I can't really see how it improves their lot in life.
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bob
JV
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Post by bob on Jun 19, 2016 20:15:21 GMT -6
kbanes - I appreciate your reply. I was looking for opinions from public school advocates and you provided a thoughtful answer to each question. As a private school parent I think you are off the mark on your reply to each question but I think a healthy debate is a good thing and we all are allowed to have an opinion. A couple of quick points to your answers:
1. I think you underestimate the potential movement of kids. The root of the discontent from public school proponents of the split playoff system is that private schools recruit kids away. I would suggest to you that the thing that prevents much more movement of kids is the rule requiring them to sit a year when transferring. I know that is the case in our area. If kids are allowed to transfer with no penalty of sitting and the private schools can openly contact parents of high school kids attending public schools I think you will be surprised at the number of kids who choose to do so.
2. As for sponsors, I think you are overestimating that they choose to spend their money as a "donation" to do a "good thing" rather than looking for an actual return on their investment. I expect major sponsors to leave LHSAA (not saying they will choose to sponsor the private assn.) I really think the days of playing in the Dome for championships will be a thing of the past. That will be a shame. I expect public school officials to turn to the state legislature for money to replace lost sponsorships. Just my opinion.
3. Regarding public schools leaving LHSAA, you may be surprised. Make no mistake that the new assn. will make a strong effort to recruit public schools over. I think it will hinge on how much gate money and sponsor money schools think they will gain by leaving LHSAA. Don't forget there were a number of public schools who voted against the playoff split. (ex. Zachary, Hahnville)
Again, these are just my opinions and I could certainly prove to be wrong. Time will tell.
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Post by iknownuthing on Jun 20, 2016 9:07:18 GMT -6
kbanes - I appreciate your reply. I was looking for opinions from public school advocates and you provided a thoughtful answer to each question. As a private school parent I think you are off the mark on your reply to each question but I think a healthy debate is a good thing and we all are allowed to have an opinion. A couple of quick points to your answers: 1. I think you underestimate the potential movement of kids. The root of the discontent from public school proponents of the split playoff system is that private schools recruit kids away. I would suggest to you that the thing that prevents much more movement of kids is the rule requiring them to sit a year when transferring. I know that is the case in our area. If kids are allowed to transfer with no penalty of sitting and the private schools can openly contact parents of high school kids attending public schools I think you will be surprised at the number of kids who choose to do so. 2. As for sponsors, I think you are overestimating that they choose to spend their money as a "donation" to do a "good thing" rather than looking for an actual return on their investment. I expect major sponsors to leave LHSAA (not saying they will choose to sponsor the private assn.) I really think the days of playing in the Dome for championships will be a thing of the past. That will be a shame. I expect public school officials to turn to the state legislature for money to replace lost sponsorships. Just my opinion. 3. Regarding public schools leaving LHSAA, you may be surprised. Make no mistake that the new assn. will make a strong effort to recruit public schools over. I think it will hinge on how much gate money and sponsor money schools think they will gain by leaving LHSAA. Don't forget there were a number of public schools who voted against the playoff split. (ex. Zachary, Hahnville) Again, these are just my opinions and I could certainly prove to be wrong. Time will tell. The public schools that will eventually have to leave the LHSAA are the large metro area public schools and certain smaller metro area public schools. Currently, there are more C, B, 1A, 2A and 3A public schools than 4A and 5A the majority of which are in metro areas. After the privates leave, the wrath of Many will turn towards these larger schools and to small public schools in metro areas. This is where the real recruitment of athletes resides. These large Metro area schools will eventually choose to leave the LHSAA because the smaller and more rural schools will have an overwhelming vote. 4A and 5A schools will find it harder to pass rules that benefit them over the smaller schools as they did back when they forced e and JC into 1A and 2A and impossible to stop the smaller schools from passing rules that maximize in zone only competition. Since small and rural schools generally have a zone and get no students from out of zone, look for them to force the metro and parish zoned schools into a no compete rule. For example, most metro area schools have a base attendance zone, then have a specialty school that is open to the parish (and sometimes out of parish) students. I fully expect the smaller classes to push to make all students who come to a school from outside of the base zone ineligible for athletics. This is the ONLY way they can truly make it a level playing field. As example, Lafayette Parish's Acadiana High has a base zone (Scott area) and then 2 schools of choice that stretch across the parish. Any student outside of that (Scott area) base zone will be ineligible to participate for athletics. The goal will not be to stop Acadiana, but they will suffer the unintended consequences of the rule. It would affect, Acadiana, Barbe, W. Monroe, Lafayette High, Comeaux, Byrd, Scotlandville, Hahnville, W. Easton, Landry Walker, Zachary, Central etc... you guys are going to be in a world of hurt. Rather, your STUDENTS are going to be in a world of hurt.
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Post by kbanes on Jun 27, 2016 8:27:59 GMT -6
Bob 1. I think you underestimate the potential movement of kids. The root of the discontent from public school proponents of the split playoff system is that private schools recruit kids away. I would suggest to you that the thing that prevents much more movement of kids is the rule requiring them to sit a year when transferring. I know that is the case in our area. If kids are allowed to transfer with no penalty of sitting and the private schools can openly contact parents of high school kids attending public schools I think you will be surprised at the number of kids who choose to do so. Bob, I'm not sure I understand your point here. If a split happens, I'm sure some kids will leave public schools and got to privates. I just don't see any reason why that number would dramatically increase. I am almost sure that the primary reason that more students don't transfer is the cost of private school tuition. This isn't going to change, unless Selects increase "scholarships".
But, assuming that you are correct, and the number of kids transferring to privates schools increases. So what? Athletic directors are less concerned about PEOPLE THAT THEY DON"T HAVE TO PLAY. As an AD, I would be upset if my stud linebacker goes to a crosstown rival that I play every year, or see in the playoffs. However, if he goes to a team that isn't even in my association anymore, I think that it becomes "out of sight, out of mind". Nobody in East Baton Rouge parish cares if a good athlete transfers to Central Private Academy. Why? Because they never play Central Private Academy. But people used to complain when a north Baton Rouge kid transferred to Redemptorist, because you were going to see him somewhere down the line.(By the way, I will add here that the real solution to this mess is improving academics in the public schools. There can be no better indicator than the separation of Zachary and Central Schools into their own school district, followed by the death of Redemptorist High and falling attendance at CPS. While we love to talk football, the real rise and fall of Select schools will ALWAYS be about academics, not athletics.) 2. As for sponsors, I think you are overestimating that they choose to spend their money as a "donation" to do a "good thing" rather than looking for an actual return on their investment. I expect major sponsors to leave LHSAA (not saying they will choose to sponsor the private assn.) I really think the days of playing in the Dome for championships will be a thing of the past. That will be a shame. I expect public school officials to turn to the state legislature for money to replace lost sponsorships. Just my opinion. Well, I went and looked at states in the South that have distinct public and private school association, or that play under one association but separate classification, Mississippi, Alabama, and Tennessee. Mississippi has a split system. There did not seem to be a lack sponsors for their non-select playoffs. (This is possibly because no one takes MAIS seriously. For good reason.) Alabama appeared to be the same. Tennessee has a split system in line with what the LHSAA has right now. There seemed to be decent sponsorship. Certainly, Non-select football in these three states all seem to be in great shape, and Selects don't rule the roost. I can't think of a compelling reason why it would be so different in Louisiana. ( By the way, several private schools in Mississippi left the MHSAA for MAIS last year, to the detriment of NO ONE.)
Its going to be a demographics thing, which is certainly beyond my level of understanding, but I can't see these same issues affecting the LHSAA anymore than they affect MHSAA, TSSAA, or AHSAA.
On a side issue, I think that the whole "playing in the Dome" thing is overblown. I think that it is unfair that the schools in the south get this benefit every year. I think that it should move around. Will it be cold in Ruston in December? Yes. It was cold the week before, too. Let Rummel or Zachary travel 250 miles for a championship game. For the record, I hate that the SEC championships aren't rotated around every year. Why should Atlanta, Birmingham and Nashville be so privileged? 3. Regarding public schools leaving LHSAA, you may be surprised. Make no mistake that the new assn. will make a strong effort to recruit public schools over. I think it will hinge on how much gate money and sponsor money schools think they will gain by leaving LHSAA. Don't forget there were a number of public schools who voted against the playoff split. (ex. Zachary, Hahnville) Again, I look at other situations in the south, and I have to ask, "What is there about Louisiana would make the formation of a separate association so different?" Can you show me a single state where a private association is the dominate association? Where is this extra gate and sponsorship money going to come from? You are just going to split the same pie. Are you telling me that the successful Selects will give a larger portion of their gate to non-selects, to get them to transfer? Do you think that Administrative costs will go down? Referees will call games for less money? Travel cost will be less with an increase in travel? Yes, Zachary would have preferred to not have a split. But, they aren't going to leave their rivals (Central, Denham Springs, Live Oak, and Scotlandville) Just to play Catholic, U-High and Parkview, along with trips to New Orleans or Lafayette multiple times each year.
I don't know what would happen here, but I know that there isn't a single public school that plays in MAIS. I didn't see a public school in AISA. You have to remember, MAIS and AISA were not put in place solely to control the athletics of private schools. They are there to control and regulate the ACADEMICs of their member institutions.
From the MAIS website:
Central to the mission of the Mississippi Association of Independent Schools is the academic integrity of its member schools. MAIS recognizes that educating children is a human, not an industrial, enterprise and therefore educators need to be free from a "cookie cutter" or "assembly line" approach. MAIS holds its member schools to high academic and operational standards while allowing them the flexibility to meet the requirements of its standards within the parameters of their specific missions.
Accreditation through the Mississippi Association of Independent Schools is comprehensive, addressing the total school, including its physical plant, community, staff, administration, activities, and instructional personnel. Site visits by evaluation teams are required once in each five year period or whenever deemed necessary by the Accreditation Commission. Accreditation through the Mississippi Association of Independent Schools is not permanent. The annual assessment is intended to ensure accountability and to serve as a catalyst for continuous school improvement.
Really, do you see any public school doing that?
Could the Selects form am athletics only association? Maybe, but I haven't found a model for that yet. If you know of any public school that is a member of an Independent athletic association, I would be interested to know about it.
And just for the record, I am not a Public guy. My kids went to a select school and were not involved in athletics. I'm just trying to look at this logically.
kbanes
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Post by iknownuthing on Jun 27, 2016 10:17:20 GMT -6
Bob 1. I think you underestimate the potential movement of kids. The root of the discontent from public school proponents of the split playoff system is that private schools recruit kids away. I would suggest to you that the thing that prevents much more movement of kids is the rule requiring them to sit a year when transferring. I know that is the case in our area. If kids are allowed to transfer with no penalty of sitting and the private schools can openly contact parents of high school kids attending public schools I think you will be surprised at the number of kids who choose to do so. Bob, I'm not sure I understand your point here. If a split happens, I'm sure some kids will leave public schools and got to privates. I just don't see any reason why that number would dramatically increase. I am almost sure that the primary reason that more students don't transfer is the cost of private school tuition. This isn't going to change, unless Selects increase "scholarships".
But, assuming that you are correct, and the number of kids transferring to privates schools increases. So what? Athletic directors are less concerned about PEOPLE THAT THEY DON"T HAVE TO PLAY. As an AD, I would be upset if my stud linebacker goes to a crosstown rival that I play every year, or see in the playoffs. However, if he goes to a team that isn't even in my association anymore, I think that it becomes "out of sight, out of mind". Nobody in East Baton Rouge parish cares if a good athlete transfers to Central Private Academy. Why? Because they never play Central Private Academy. But people used to complain when a north Baton Rouge kid transferred to Redemptorist, because you were going to see him somewhere down the line.(By the way, I will add here that the real solution to this mess is improving academics in the public schools. There can be no better indicator than the separation of Zachary and Central Schools into their own school district, followed by the death of Redemptorist High and falling attendance at CPS. While we love to talk football, the real rise and fall of Select schools will ALWAYS be about academics, not athletics.) 2. As for sponsors, I think you are overestimating that they choose to spend their money as a "donation" to do a "good thing" rather than looking for an actual return on their investment. I expect major sponsors to leave LHSAA (not saying they will choose to sponsor the private assn.) I really think the days of playing in the Dome for championships will be a thing of the past. That will be a shame. I expect public school officials to turn to the state legislature for money to replace lost sponsorships. Just my opinion. Well, I went and looked at states in the South that have distinct public and private school association, or that play under one association but separate classification, Mississippi, Alabama, and Tennessee. Mississippi has a split system. There did not seem to be a lack sponsors for their non-select playoffs. (This is possibly because no one takes MAIS seriously. For good reason.) Alabama appeared to be the same. Tennessee has a split system in line with what the LHSAA has right now. There seemed to be decent sponsorship. Certainly, Non-select football in these three states all seem to be in great shape, and Selects don't rule the roost. I can't think of a compelling reason why it would be so different in Louisiana. ( By the way, several private schools in Mississippi left the MHSAA for MAIS last year, to the detriment of NO ONE.)
Its going to be a demographics thing, which is certainly beyond my level of understanding, but I can't see these same issues affecting the LHSAA anymore than they affect MHSAA, TSSAA, or AHSAA.
On a side issue, I think that the whole "playing in the Dome" thing is overblown. I think that it is unfair that the schools in the south get this benefit every year. I think that it should move around. Will it be cold in Ruston in December? Yes. It was cold the week before, too. Let Rummel or Zachary travel 250 miles for a championship game. For the record, I hate that the SEC championships aren't rotated around every year. Why should Atlanta, Birmingham and Nashville be so privileged? 3. Regarding public schools leaving LHSAA, you may be surprised. Make no mistake that the new assn. will make a strong effort to recruit public schools over. I think it will hinge on how much gate money and sponsor money schools think they will gain by leaving LHSAA. Don't forget there were a number of public schools who voted against the playoff split. (ex. Zachary, Hahnville) Again, I look at other situations in the south, and I have to ask, "What is there about Louisiana would make the formation of a separate association so different?" Can you show me a single state where a private association is the dominate association? Where is this extra gate and sponsorship money going to come from? You are just going to split the same pie. Are you telling me that the successful Selects will give a larger portion of their gate to non-selects, to get them to transfer? Do you think that Administrative costs will go down? Referees will call games for less money? Travel cost will be less with an increase in travel? Yes, Zachary would have preferred to not have a split. But, they aren't going to leave their rivals (Central, Denham Springs, Live Oak, and Scotlandville) Just to play Catholic, U-High and Parkview, along with trips to New Orleans or Lafayette multiple times each year.
I don't know what would happen here, but I know that there isn't a single public school that plays in MAIS. I didn't see a public school in AISA. You have to remember, MAIS and AISA were not put in place solely to control the athletics of private schools. They are there to control and regulate the ACADEMICs of their member institutions.
From the MAIS website:
Central to the mission of the Mississippi Association of Independent Schools is the academic integrity of its member schools. MAIS recognizes that educating children is a human, not an industrial, enterprise and therefore educators need to be free from a "cookie cutter" or "assembly line" approach. MAIS holds its member schools to high academic and operational standards while allowing them the flexibility to meet the requirements of its standards within the parameters of their specific missions.
Accreditation through the Mississippi Association of Independent Schools is comprehensive, addressing the total school, including its physical plant, community, staff, administration, activities, and instructional personnel. Site visits by evaluation teams are required once in each five year period or whenever deemed necessary by the Accreditation Commission. Accreditation through the Mississippi Association of Independent Schools is not permanent. The annual assessment is intended to ensure accountability and to serve as a catalyst for continuous school improvement.
Really, do you see any public school doing that?
Could the Selects form am athletics only association? Maybe, but I haven't found a model for that yet. If you know of any public school that is a member of an Independent athletic association, I would be interested to know about it.
And just for the record, I am not a Public guy. My kids went to a select school and were not involved in athletics. I'm just trying to look at this logically.
kbanesI don't think any "select" school supporter who wants to see a split away from the LHSAA for all private schools, Magnets and charters believes that a new association will be the demise of the LHSAA. It may lead to bankruptcy with a loss of revenue, but that would just be a restructuring. (worst case). I do not foresee a mass exodus from the public schools any more than currently exist. I will say there will be a loss of students for athletic purposes, but from an academic point of view, people who want out or to opt out of public education generally have already done so. And I agree 100%, the success of private education is a direct function of the failure of the public system. Where public schools excel, private schools are restricted and flounder. But the problem still exist that there is no FIX for the public system as it is currently structured.
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