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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 11:07:11 GMT -6
Just so I am clear where you stand, you say that private schools have no advantages over a public school? No, there is an distinct advantage to going to private school, it is just not an athletic one. It is an academic and safety one. It is a religious one. The success that nearly all private schools have comes from that factor. Here is a question for you, why is it that in parishes where the public schools excel, the private schools do not? Take St. Tammany parish as an example, very few private schools and the football one is a boarding school. That does not come from recruiting athletes, it comes from recruiting academics. So locals in St. Tammany parish send their kids to public school, and they are very successful on the football field. If you want to stop the flow to private schools make your public school safe and academically successful first. That is the real advantage private school hold, academic success.And Yeah, picking student enrollment had nothing to do with that either!!!...............lol
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 11:17:56 GMT -6
Just so I am clear where you stand, you say that private schools have no advantages over a public school? That is vague... If we are staying on topic, then I would suppose you are saying athletic advantage. My answer would be that it depends. A small private school in a parish with good public education has no advantage over a small public school in that same parish. If the public school is under performing academically, then the private school may have an athletic advantage by the increasing of student numbers. There are so many other variables. If the small public school has quality education, then it has an advantage over the private in that it is free to attend. You guys just will not look past a one liner. Everything isn't simple. Stop being simple.
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Post by btown on Apr 19, 2016 11:19:19 GMT -6
Just so I am clear where you stand, you say that private schools have no advantages over a public school? No, there is an distinct advantage to going to private school, it is just not an athletic one. It is an academic and safety one. It is a religious one. The success that nearly all private schools have comes from that factor. Here is a question for you, why is it that in parishes where the public schools excel, the private schools do not? Take St. Tammany parish as an example, very few private schools and the football one is a boarding school. That does not come from recruiting athletes, it comes from recruiting academics. So locals in St. Tammany parish send their kids to public school, and they are very successful on the football field. If you want to stop the flow to private schools make your public school safe and academically successful first. That is the real advantage private school hold, academic success. This what I posted on anohter thread: I agree that there are different types of private schools and different types of public schools. Parents are drawn to private school, for the most part, because of the enviroment. Parents want their kids in schools that have good discipline. If you look at the good privates I bet you find a high level of discipline. Same thing as in public, if you look at the real good publics you will see a high level of discipline in the school. But I still think there is advantage when you have a open attendance zone. So if you ask me if it is a simple split of private and public I would say no. There are some private schools that do not belong on the select side and there are some public schools that do not belong on the non select side. So how do you get a balance that everyone can live with? It takes two thing common sense and a understanding that it is about the kids. There still needs to be a division more than just classification.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 11:27:17 GMT -6
So, I will just have to disagree with you on that one. I am WAY different than the principals. I never voted to put my own organization at risk so that I could be called a champion. Please restrict your judgements to things which you actually know. If you make sweeping judgements as a matter of course, you will also one day do something similar as to put off what is good long term for very short term "reward". That is just good advice no matter the subject. Just so you are aware, there are principals at the private schools... First of all I am very awere that there are principals at private schools because my father is a retired one and I have gotten great insight as to what goes own in some private schools that make it hard on everyone else. Second I can judge you by your comments, you talk bad about the principals just like bigbod talks bad about the privates, so I think I am right own. Okay, I understand. If I disagree with what you did, I am talking bad about you. Makes sense. can I ask you a question? Is it good that the Louisiana inept legislature is looking to pass a law that will make it illegal for public schools to be a member of the LHSAA? is that a response to the vote by the principals? Do you think that was a good move? Do you realize how bad that will hurt everyone if they pass it? Do you have confidence that they will actually seek to get down to the real issues in the LHSAA or vote to "Stop Discrimination", or "end segregation". those are powerful words and can manipulate the uninformed to vote one way or the other. I stand by my distrust in the competency of short sighted principals, while absolutely respecting the job they do in and for education in this state (Public and Private). Just for perspective - my solution would have been to kick JC , Evangel WM and the like out of the LHSAA. Just say we are not interested in manufactured power houses (intent verses spirit of the rules)
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Post by eag on Apr 19, 2016 11:28:07 GMT -6
Bigbob, genuinely curious- you keep referring to picking students. Do you have knowledge or evidence of schools systematically denying enrollment? Just telling a kid or family straight up that you can't come to school here? If so, that is a very different experience than the private schools I've been involved with. Those schools have been thrilled to have any student that wants to attend. Now, they do expect certain behaviors and some kids flunk out, some leave for easier pathways, and some have been kicked out. But I'm unaware of any kid ever being told that they simply could not try the school out, much less because they weren't a good enough athlete.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 11:28:35 GMT -6
Just so I am clear where you stand, you say that private schools have no advantages over a public school? That is vague... If we are staying on topic, then I would suppose you are saying athletic advantage. My answer would be that it depends. A small private school in a parish with good public education has no advantage over a small public school in that same parish. If the public school is under performing academically, then the private school may have an athletic advantage by the increasing of student numbers. There are so many other variables. If the small public school has quality education, then it has an advantage over the private in that it is free to attend. You guys just will not look past a one liner. Everything isn't simple. Stop being simple. Its actually simpler than that. If I am running a private school ANYWHERE and I can control my enrollment, not let in poor students, keep out discipline issues, then I SHOULD BE BETTER IN NEARLY EVERY FACET THAN THE LOCAL PUBLIC SCHOOL!!! Stop being so simple. If i get to pick my cherrys, and send you whats left, my pie is better. DUH
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Post by iknownuthing on Apr 19, 2016 11:42:06 GMT -6
That is vague... If we are staying on topic, then I would suppose you are saying athletic advantage. My answer would be that it depends. A small private school in a parish with good public education has no advantage over a small public school in that same parish. If the public school is under performing academically, then the private school may have an athletic advantage by the increasing of student numbers. There are so many other variables. If the small public school has quality education, then it has an advantage over the private in that it is free to attend. You guys just will not look past a one liner. Everything isn't simple. Stop being simple. Its actually simpler than that. If I am running a private school ANYWHERE and I can control my enrollment, not let in poor students, keep out discipline issues, then I SHOULD BE BETTER IN NEARLY EVERY FACET THAN THE LOCAL PUBLIC SCHOOL!!! Stop being so simple. If i get to pick my cherrys, and send you whats left, my pie is better. DUH We only pick the cherries that actually apply to come to our schools and jump in our pie. No private school can force any child to attend it, our cherries want to be in our pie. Your pie is mixed fruit with diverse flavor. The private school pie is roundly robust in its ideallic flavor. That does not make the cherry pie superior to the mixed fruit or give that pie an advantageous flavor, it just makes it different. Some people don't like or want cherry pie, they want apple or mixed fruit. None has any real advantage over the other.
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Post by eag on Apr 19, 2016 11:42:57 GMT -6
Again, where are the lists of all these kids being turned down?
The more I think about it, it really is not the schools selecting but more so the parents. The schools create an environment and the parents select it.
The issue can arise that a school creates an athletic factory environment - large budget, remove academic stress from athletes, etc. That is here the problem comes in. But it by far isn't every private school that does this. Most are trying to create an academic/religious environment and that offers no athletic advantage to the school and possibly a disadvantage. So, when you refer to private schools you think of the athletic factories as the main body and the academic/religious ones as the unfortunate minority collateral damage. I think of the academic/religious as the majority and the factories as the outliers. I think we both agree that both types exist.
Can't we spend all this energy on figuring out how to reclass more selectively instead of justifying putting Ecole Classique in a bracket with Riverside?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 12:02:12 GMT -6
"We only pick the cherries that actually apply to come to our schools and jump in our pie. No private school can force any child to attend it, our cherries want to be in our pie. Your pie is mixed fruit with diverse flavor. The private school pie is roundly robust in its ideallic flavor. That does not make the cherry pie superior to the mixed fruit or give that pie an advantageous flavor, it just makes it different. Some people don't like or want cherry pie, they want apple or mixed fruit."
Good explanation of why publics and privates are so different. Shouldn't be any argument after this explanation as to why we have select and non-select playoffs. They are just different...to quote eag. Of course I left off the last sentence as it is TOTALLY his opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 12:07:54 GMT -6
"We only pick the cherries that actually apply to come to our schools and jump in our pie. No private school can force any child to attend it, our cherries want to be in our pie. Your pie is mixed fruit with diverse flavor. The private school pie is roundly robust in its ideallic flavor. That does not make the cherry pie superior to the mixed fruit or give that pie an advantageous flavor, it just makes it different. Some people don't like or want cherry pie, they want apple or mixed fruit." Good explanation of why publics and privates are so different. Shouldn't be any argument after this explanation as to why we have select and non-select playoffs. They are just different...to quote eag. Of course I left off the last sentence as it is TOTALLY his opinion. really? A pie analogy? Analogies should be analogous in order to make generalizations. Different does not equal superior or advantageous. If you ar anyone seriously thought that they were so different as to matter, they would not be allowed to compete for district honors against each other either. But you devalue district because in your mind only state championships matter. That is the truth.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 12:14:06 GMT -6
Yeah, well, its very hard to choose to be different, then want to be the same, but different.
"We dont want common core" "We should all play together"
"We dont want your bad students" "We should all play together"
"We dont want your special needs kids" "We should all play together"
"We dont want your discipline issues" "We should all play together"
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New Idea
Apr 19, 2016 15:34:33 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 15:34:33 GMT -6
"We only pick the cherries that actually apply to come to our schools and jump in our pie. No private school can force any child to attend it, our cherries want to be in our pie. Your pie is mixed fruit with diverse flavor. The private school pie is roundly robust in its ideallic flavor. That does not make the cherry pie superior to the mixed fruit or give that pie an advantageous flavor, it just makes it different. Some people don't like or want cherry pie, they want apple or mixed fruit." Good explanation of why publics and privates are so different. Shouldn't be any argument after this explanation as to why we have select and non-select playoffs. They are just different...to quote eag. Of course I left off the last sentence as it is TOTALLY his opinion. really? A pie analogy? Analogies should be analogous in order to make generalizations. Different does not equal superior or advantageous. If you ar anyone seriously thought that they were so different as to matter, they would not be allowed to compete for district honors against each other either. But you devalue district because in your mind only state championships matter. That is the truth. That was a select supporters analogy, not mine. I was simply agreeing that the two are different. And i'd also agree with you that we shouldn't be in the same districts either.
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Post by btown on Apr 19, 2016 16:58:59 GMT -6
First of all I am very awere that there are principals at private schools because my father is a retired one and I have gotten great insight as to what goes own in some private schools that make it hard on everyone else. Second I can judge you by your comments, you talk bad about the principals just like bigbod talks bad about the privates, so I think I am right own. Okay, I understand. If I disagree with what you did, I am talking bad about you. Makes sense. can I ask you a question? Is it good that the Louisiana inept legislature is looking to pass a law that will make it illegal for public schools to be a member of the LHSAA? is that a response to the vote by the principals? Do you think that was a good move? Do you realize how bad that will hurt everyone if they pass it? Do you have confidence that they will actually seek to get down to the real issues in the LHSAA or vote to "Stop Discrimination", or "end segregation". those are powerful words and can manipulate the uninformed to vote one way or the other. I stand by my distrust in the competency of short sighted principals, while absolutely respecting the job they do in and for education in this state (Public and Private). Just for perspective - my solution would have been to kick JC , Evangel WM and the like out of the LHSAA. Just say we are not interested in manufactured power houses (intent verses spirit of the rules) Discrimination or segregation is denying something. Both sides get to play for a state championship. Someone could say that the different classifications are Discrimination or segregation. Everyone keeps trying make something out of nothing. Everyone has the same opportunity.
So what is everyone going to say when the big private schools get that they want 5A and 4A back together and do not worry about the small private schools. Are you going to say they are Discriminating, because that is what is going to happen. The New Orleans schools are to going to get what they want, 5A and 4A back together, and that will be the end of the so call new association.
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Post by deadman318 on Apr 20, 2016 6:56:24 GMT -6
Okay, I understand. If I disagree with what you did, I am talking bad about you. Makes sense. can I ask you a question? Is it good that the Louisiana inept legislature is looking to pass a law that will make it illegal for public schools to be a member of the LHSAA? is that a response to the vote by the principals? Do you think that was a good move? Do you realize how bad that will hurt everyone if they pass it? Do you have confidence that they will actually seek to get down to the real issues in the LHSAA or vote to "Stop Discrimination", or "end segregation". those are powerful words and can manipulate the uninformed to vote one way or the other. I stand by my distrust in the competency of short sighted principals, while absolutely respecting the job they do in and for education in this state (Public and Private). Just for perspective - my solution would have been to kick JC , Evangel WM and the like out of the LHSAA. Just say we are not interested in manufactured power houses (intent verses spirit of the rules) Discrimination or segregation is denying something. Both sides get to play for a state championship. Someone could say that the different classifications are Discrimination or segregation. Everyone keeps trying make something out of nothing. Everyone has the same opportunity.
So what is everyone going to say when the big private schools get that they want 5A and 4A back together and do not worry about the small private schools. Are you going to say they are Discriminating, because that is what is going to happen. The New Orleans schools are to going to get what they want, 5A and 4A back together, and that will be the end of the so call new association.
I just want to see how the rural / metro thing goes down if indeed there is a compromise... I want to see if they put Notre Dame in the rural part since they are nowhere near being metro.
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Post by iknownuthing on Apr 20, 2016 7:29:33 GMT -6
really? A pie analogy? Analogies should be analogous in order to make generalizations. Different does not equal superior or advantageous. If you ar anyone seriously thought that they were so different as to matter, they would not be allowed to compete for district honors against each other either. But you devalue district because in your mind only state championships matter. That is the truth. That was a select supporters analogy, not mine. I was simply agreeing that the two are different. And i'd also agree with you that we shouldn't be in the same districts either. As the creator of that post, I did not start the analogy, Bigbob did. Just another spin of what is posted without reason. But, Pie is universal for everyone loves PIE......
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Post by iknownuthing on Apr 20, 2016 7:31:53 GMT -6
really? A pie analogy? Analogies should be analogous in order to make generalizations. Different does not equal superior or advantageous. If you ar anyone seriously thought that they were so different as to matter, they would not be allowed to compete for district honors against each other either. But you devalue district because in your mind only state championships matter. That is the truth. That was a select supporters analogy, not mine. I was simply agreeing that the two are different. And i'd also agree with you that we shouldn't be in the same districts either. For the record, I don't think they should be in the same organization at this point. Time to fish or cut bait. LHSAA reunited or LHSAC here we come.
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Post by eag on Apr 20, 2016 7:55:47 GMT -6
Okay, I understand. If I disagree with what you did, I am talking bad about you. Makes sense. can I ask you a question? Is it good that the Louisiana inept legislature is looking to pass a law that will make it illegal for public schools to be a member of the LHSAA? is that a response to the vote by the principals? Do you think that was a good move? Do you realize how bad that will hurt everyone if they pass it? Do you have confidence that they will actually seek to get down to the real issues in the LHSAA or vote to "Stop Discrimination", or "end segregation". those are powerful words and can manipulate the uninformed to vote one way or the other. I stand by my distrust in the competency of short sighted principals, while absolutely respecting the job they do in and for education in this state (Public and Private). Just for perspective - my solution would have been to kick JC , Evangel WM and the like out of the LHSAA. Just say we are not interested in manufactured power houses (intent verses spirit of the rules) Discrimination or segregation is denying something. Both sides get to play for a state championship. Someone could say that the different classifications are Discrimination or segregation. Everyone keeps trying make something out of nothing. Everyone has the same opportunity.
So what is everyone going to say when the big private schools get that they want 5A and 4A back together and do not worry about the small private schools. Are you going to say they are Discriminating, because that is what is going to happen. The New Orleans schools are to going to get what they want, 5A and 4A back together, and that will be the end of the so call new association.
I am not a fan of this. While I agree that 4A and 5A doesn't really need a split, and I agree that the private dominance is worse in 2A, there are still small private schools that do not need separationfrom public schools. I am against anything that separates schools based on what they could do vs what they actually do. I am perfectly OK with performance metrics, committees, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 7:56:58 GMT -6
That was a select supporters analogy, not mine. I was simply agreeing that the two are different. And i'd also agree with you that we shouldn't be in the same districts either. For the record, I don't think they should be in the same organization at this point. Time to fish or cut bait. LHSAA reunited or LHSAC here we come. Agree, it's probably best that the big selects go off on their own...and take Bonine with them.
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Post by iknownuthing on Apr 20, 2016 8:06:28 GMT -6
For the record, I don't think they should be in the same organization at this point. Time to fish or cut bait. LHSAA reunited or LHSAC here we come. Agree, it's probably best that the big selects go off on their own...and take Bonine with them. No, you guys can keep the leadership you have, you deserve them.
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Post by iknownuthing on Apr 20, 2016 8:08:27 GMT -6
For the record, I don't think they should be in the same organization at this point. Time to fish or cut bait. LHSAA reunited or LHSAC here we come. Agree, it's probably best that the big selects go off on their own...and take Bonine with them. Most of the small selects will go with them if not all at once over the next couple of years. Once they get tired of being the public schools whipping boys. Then all the non competitive schools will have to find a new scapegoat for their failure.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 8:15:42 GMT -6
Agree, it's probably best that the big selects go off on their own...and take Bonine with them. Most of the small selects will go with them if not all at once over the next couple of years. Once they get tired of being the public schools whipping boys. Then all the non competitive schools will have to find a new scapegoat for their failure. keep telling people that...no one's heard these threats before.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Apr 20, 2016 8:18:17 GMT -6
From IKNOWNOTHING:
"For the record, I don't think they should be in the same organization at this point. Time to fish or cut bait. LHSAA reunited or LHSAC here we come."
I also think it's "time to fish or cut bait", but with the late date of the vote I agree the LHSAA is delaying hoping the Private Schools won't leave. I do believe that another option for the Private Schools is for all the Privates to join the MAIS. Have two divisions (East & West) like the SEC. The East teams (MS) could play their regular season with playoffs to name the MS state champion and the West teams (LA) could do the same. The MAIS championship games with the East vs West Champions could be played on a rotating basis at the different college stadiums in MS & LA.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 9:17:13 GMT -6
From IKNOWNOTHING: "For the record, I don't think they should be in the same organization at this point. Time to fish or cut bait. LHSAA reunited or LHSAC here we come." I also think it's "time to fish or cut bait", but with the late date of the vote I agree the LHSAA is delaying hoping the Private Schools won't leave. I do believe that another option for the Private Schools is for all the Privates to join the MAIS. Have two divisions (East & West) like the SEC. The East teams (MS) could play their regular season with playoffs to name the MS state champion and the West teams (LA) could do the same. The MAIS championship games with the East vs West Champions could be played on a rotating basis at the different college stadiums in MS & LA. I think most would be fine with the privates starting a league, or total seperation under the LHSAA, or MAIS, or whatever. Just do it, stop threatening.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Apr 20, 2016 9:25:29 GMT -6
REAUX
I do think that it's time to fish or cut bait, for everyone's best interest.
I'm not threatening to leave, just think if the Private/Select schools are they need to. If there's not enough time to start the new league, the MAIS was just a suggestion.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 9:46:53 GMT -6
REAUX I do think that it's time to fish or cut bait, for everyone's best interest. I'm not threatening to leave, just think if the Private/Select schools are they need to. If there's not enough time to start the new league, the MAIS was just a suggestion. I agree, just too much vitriol. Time to go our separate ways.
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Post by pinion on Apr 20, 2016 11:09:27 GMT -6
I guess public schools fund themselves? No. They don't. That money comes from somewhere. Taxes. Perhaps you consider an audit of those monies as "unnecessary", but I don't. Public schools have a HUGE advantage with all the unquestioned money coming in. I pay for a kid to attend a private school and I pay for kids to attend public schools. My neighbors pay for kids to attend public schools, and they don't even have kids. Yet you still figure that somehow a private school has the advantage. That doesn't even make sense. Just so I am clear where you stand, you say that private schools have no advantages over a public school? In regards to sports? That's not really a yes or no answer. Let's say a private school pushes most of their money to where they have indoor practice field and rent out the Superdome every Friday night. That is an advantage, but only because they choose to spend their money like that. If a kid wants to have that, he'll have to go to a school that's doing those things. But just right out of the gate? I mean, if I open up a private school next Monday morning, we have no advantage over anyone else.
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Post by Raven on Apr 20, 2016 11:17:26 GMT -6
Then there are others like myself who understand and appreciate the history and tradition of the LHSAA and would like to see that preserved.
I do not think it is too late to save the LHSAA if the public school principles want to. They have the numbers and thus the majority of votes. The private schools are basically just waiting to see what the public schools want to do.
While I think the majority of private schools would like to stay, if the public school principles remain committed to the split, with no discussion of other alternatives (besides the rural/metro plan which no one really wanted to begin with) would there be any real reason for them to remain a part of the LHSAA?
Let me clarify that I would not be opposed to a rural/metro system IF that system was also used to create the classifications and districts as well as the playoff brackets. I oppose any plan that forces teams to play each other during the regular, then prevents them from playing in the post-season.
If the idea is to reclassify certain teams, then do that. Put them in a different class and give everyone in that class the opportunity to make the same playoffs. Don't say it's ok to play one week but not ok to play that same team the following week.
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Post by pinion on Apr 20, 2016 11:20:33 GMT -6
From IKNOWNOTHING: "For the record, I don't think they should be in the same organization at this point. Time to fish or cut bait. LHSAA reunited or LHSAC here we come." I also think it's "time to fish or cut bait", but with the late date of the vote I agree the LHSAA is delaying hoping the Private Schools won't leave. I do believe that another option for the Private Schools is for all the Privates to join the MAIS. Have two divisions (East & West) like the SEC. The East teams (MS) could play their regular season with playoffs to name the MS state champion and the West teams (LA) could do the same. The MAIS championship games with the East vs West Champions could be played on a rotating basis at the different college stadiums in MS & LA. I feel pretty confident saying that few, if any, of the private schools in the LHSAA would want to be a part of the MAIS. And, I don't know how interested the MAIS is anyway. The private schools would be better to form their own league and bring in some of the Louisiana schools that are currently part of the MAIS. All that being said, I agree: fish or cut bait. I also believe things are being drawn out in an effort to keep the private schools in the LHSAA. They want to wait until it's so close to football season to where they'll have to stay at least for the season.
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Post by btown on Apr 20, 2016 12:06:09 GMT -6
Just so I am clear where you stand, you say that private schools have no advantages over a public school? In regards to sports? That's not really a yes or no answer. Let's say a private school pushes most of their money to where they have indoor practice field and rent out the Superdome every Friday night. That is an advantage, but only because they choose to spend their money like that. If a kid wants to have that, he'll have to go to a school that's doing those things. But just right out of the gate? I mean, if I open up a private school next Monday morning, we have no advantage over anyone else. So how does a private school become a powerhouse out the gate. A new Private schools coming out the gate being a powerhouse in sports, note Laf. Christian. So yes private schools must have a advantage, because there is no way a new public schools could develop as quick as they did.
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Post by btown on Apr 20, 2016 12:13:51 GMT -6
Then there are others like myself who understand and appreciate the history and tradition of the LHSAA and would like to see that preserved. I do not think it is too late to save the LHSAA if the public school principles want to. They have the numbers and thus the majority of votes. The private schools are basically just waiting to see what the public schools want to do. While I think the majority of private schools would like to stay, if the public school principles remain committed to the split, with no discussion of other alternatives (besides the rural/metro plan which no one really wanted to begin with) would there be any real reason for them to remain a part of the LHSAA? Let me clarify that I would not be opposed to a rural/metro system IF that system was also used to create the classifications and districts as well as the playoff brackets. I oppose any plan that forces teams to play each other during the regular, then prevents them from playing in the post-season. If the idea is to reclassify certain teams, then do that. Put them in a different class and give everyone in that class the opportunity to make the same playoffs. Don't say it's ok to play one week but not ok to play that same team the following week. So let's put some reasoning to this.
You do not like being separate in playoffs. So you are going to break away and have playoffs by yourself. Seems the same
You do not like being separate in playoffs. So you are going to break away and have less teams to play in regular season. ??
So what if the break away does not work for the privates, where will that leave them?
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