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Post by Brad on Apr 25, 2016 16:20:30 GMT -6
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Post by Brad on Apr 26, 2016 5:19:50 GMT -6
Two things I noticed.
The new formula only changes about two teams in each class in the top 32. Interesting that in 5A, Ehret goes from 50 to 32, the same jump they had with this year's PR because they won their District.
Also, notice how tight the ratings are. Only 2 to 3 points separate #1 and #35 as depicted in the below image:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2016 6:36:53 GMT -6
I noticed some larger changes in the smaller classifications. I havent looked to see what the new calculation looks like. What is it that changes the positioning from this years formula to next years?
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Post by sportschaser on Apr 26, 2016 9:20:27 GMT -6
The significant changes are due to district record.... and pretty significant in some cases.... If you are in a weak district and you are the big dog it helps you out..... if you are in a strong district where you beat yourself up.... it hurts you.
here are a few increases or decreases of more than 5 slots which makes a significant difference in your playoff matchup.
In 4A....
Lagrange skies up from #28 to 10.
Grant drops from #9 to 17
Tioga drops from #4 to 11.
In 3A.....
Erath #5 to 11
Jena #13 to 7
Menard #7 to 1
In Class B
Grace Christian drops from #1 to 6
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2016 10:18:14 GMT -6
I dont understand how Lagrange would be able to go up 18 slots. You said strong districts would hurt us. What about a district like 3-5a where most of the teams are in the top 10-15? I didnt see many of them move from this year to next.
-BTW I appreciate the info on things like these. It makes our job a little easier when it comes down to it
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Post by chalmetteowl on Apr 26, 2016 15:32:46 GMT -6
The significant changes are due to district record.... and pretty significant in some cases.... If you are in a weak district and you are the big dog it helps you out..... if you are in a strong district where you beat yourself up.... it hurts you.
it's funny that Denham Springs proposed this, when by any standard, they're in one of the "strong" districts, with Zachary, Walker, and Central |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2016 13:22:54 GMT -6
Brad, I know you said you talked to the guy (Denham Springs Coach I guess?) who wrote the new fomula, and you've gone by what he told you. But the Vote at the LHSAA convention was for 3 times Winning Percentage, 9 times district record, and 9 times opponents winning percentage. I assume whatever was voted on is what the LHSAA will go with...otherwise why vote?
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Post by chalmetteowl on May 1, 2016 0:43:34 GMT -6
someone has to be wrong, and it's either the LHSAA who has it on their agenda, posted on the internet for all the world to see (but wouldn't surprise me if they were), or Brad who is going off of hearsay
btw, run those final numbers with 3x winning percentage, 9x district percentage, and 9x opponents win percentage
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Post by KnowItAll on May 1, 2016 11:55:14 GMT -6
From what I understand and have been told, Brad is correct, I was told the LHSAA input the wrong formula on its website. I would go with what Brad has and whoever he talked to.
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Post by chalmetteowl on May 1, 2016 12:11:49 GMT -6
13
.
Amend
Section 10
–
Baseball by amending Rule 10.10.1, Page 82 of the 2015
-
16 LHSAA By
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Laws, to be worded
as follows:
10.10.1
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Determining Power Rating
The power rating for each school shall be determined as follows: The power rating should be the
sum of
t
he
following three calculations:
a) Overall number of wins divided by overall number of games played multiplied by 3
b) Overall number of district wins divided by overall number of district games played
multiplied by 9
c) Overall number of oppon
ent wins divided by overall number of opponent games played
multiplied by 9
*no extra points for playing up
*a tie counts as ½ a win for both teams
10.10.2
–
Delete Article
Kelly Jones
Denham Springs
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Post by chalmetteowl on May 1, 2016 12:21:22 GMT -6
here's the issue... say you have 350 baseball coaches in the state in all classes. they will cry foul if we play by a different formula than what has been posted on the LHSAA website, and what principals thought they were voting on, without a publicized vote by the exec committee to change the 9 to a 2 under 10.10.1(b). idk when schedules get made for the 2017 season, but this has to be resolved by then.
and i'll be honest, counting district games x9 is in my school's best interest, but if you have districts, this is one good way to get them to matter again. we're never going to not have districts for many reasons.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 13:16:11 GMT -6
From what I understand and have been told, Brad is correct, I was told the LHSAA input the wrong formula on its website. I would go with what Brad has and whoever he talked to. It's not just what they put on the website. It's what was voted on....and the Denham Springs coach had a chance to correct it BEFORE the convention if he wanted to. There are procedures in place to do this. He could have even amended it on the floor if he had chosen to. They have no choice but to play by what was voted on. EDIT: Technically the principal would have had to fix it, not the coach. |
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 13:22:46 GMT -6
here's the issue... say you have 350 baseball coaches in the state in all classes. they will cry foul if we play by a different formula than what has been posted on the LHSAA website, and what principals thought they were voting on, without a publicized vote by the exec committee to change the 9 to a 2 under 10.10.1(b). idk when schedules get made for the 2017 season, but this has to be resolved by then. and i'll be honest, counting district games x9 is in my school's best interest, but if you have districts, this is one good way to get them to matter again. we're never going to not have districts for many reasons. Baseball schedules are being made RIGHT NOW. |
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Post by Brad on May 2, 2016 7:14:57 GMT -6
I can't say if what was on the LHSAA website was what was used at the convention of not. I am going with what I have now until I see something official otherwise.
The Handbook will be updated with the official formula before next season starts.....
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 9:39:26 GMT -6
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Post by chalmetteowl on Oct 25, 2016 14:10:40 GMT -6
I can't say if what was on the LHSAA website was what was used at the convention of not. I am going with what I have now until I see something official otherwise. The Handbook will be updated with the official formula before next season starts..... bump copied straight from the new handbook 10.10 DETERMINING POWER RATING 10.10.1 The power rating for each school shall be determined as follows: The power rating should be the sum of the following three calculations: 1. Overall number of wins divided by overall number of games played multiplied by 3 2. Overall number of district wins divided by overall number of district games played multiplied by 23. Overall number of opponent wins divided by overall number of opponent games played multiplied by 9 *no extra points for playing up *a tie counts as ½ a win for both teams so the LHSAA apparently voted on the wrong formula in January and Brad was right I would like to know what was OFFICIALLY done to change that "9" to a "2". Glad something can be voted in, and then changed in a secret-ish process. A new association won't have that kind of issue. it has ramifications. District games should matter that much more. If strength of schedule matters too much, teams won't even need to win. Just schedule the right teams, get run-ruled, and you should be in. they'll play by this formula for a year, then the coaches will again. A 5-28 team once got in the 4A state playoffs (a good team that had a bunch of forfeits, but still). it will happen again if strength of schedule is such a big component of the rating. |
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Post by Brad on Oct 25, 2016 14:44:18 GMT -6
I would like to know what was OFFICIALLY done to change that "9" to a "2". Glad something can be voted in, and then changed in a secret-ish process. A new association won't have that kind of issue. What makes you so certain that they voted for 9? Just because that was what somebody posted on the website doesn't mean it's what was used at the convention. |
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Post by Rick James on Oct 26, 2016 10:32:51 GMT -6
I can't say if what was on the LHSAA website was what was used at the convention of not. I am going with what I have now until I see something official otherwise. The Handbook will be updated with the official formula before next season starts..... bump copied straight from the new handbook 10.10 DETERMINING POWER RATING 10.10.1 The power rating for each school shall be determined as follows: The power rating should be the sum of the following three calculations: 1. Overall number of wins divided by overall number of games played multiplied by 3 2. Overall number of district wins divided by overall number of district games played multiplied by 23. Overall number of opponent wins divided by overall number of opponent games played multiplied by 9 *no extra points for playing up *a tie counts as ½ a win for both teams so the LHSAA apparently voted on the wrong formula in January and Brad was right I would like to know what was OFFICIALLY done to change that "9" to a "2". Glad something can be voted in, and then changed in a secret-ish process. A new association won't have that kind of issue. it has ramifications. District games should matter that much more. If strength of schedule matters too much, teams won't even need to win. Just schedule the right teams, get run-ruled, and you should be in. they'll play by this formula for a year, then the coaches will again. A 5-28 team once got in the 4A state playoffs (a good team that had a bunch of forfeits, but still). it will happen again if strength of schedule is such a big component of the rating. So really all that matters is your opponents winning percentage. You're winning percentage and district winning percentage matter a little bit, but not enough to overcome simply playing winning teams. |
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Post by Rick James on Oct 26, 2016 10:34:11 GMT -6
Someone should propose to throw out this made up rule, and go back to the old Power Ranking system THIS YEAR.
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Post by chalmetteowl on Oct 26, 2016 13:18:47 GMT -6
Someone should propose to throw out this made up rule, and go back to the old Power Ranking system THIS YEAR. well it wasn't made up. It passed properly at the convention. The system is fine, but the nuts and bolts matter. Some like and value districts, some clearly don't. My issue is that teams don't get to pick all their games. Our district forces us to play teams who drag our PR down |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2016 15:51:45 GMT -6
Someone should propose to throw out this made up rule, and go back to the old Power Ranking system THIS YEAR. well it wasn't made up. It passed properly at the convention. The system is fine, but the nuts and bolts matter. Some like and value districts, some clearly don't. My issue is that teams don't get to pick all their games. Our district forces us to play teams who drag our PR down Then there must have been an amendment on the floor. That's the only way it passed properly at the convention. Otherwise the final document is what was voted on. |
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Post by chalmetteowl on Oct 26, 2016 16:23:17 GMT -6
well it wasn't made up. It passed properly at the convention. The system is fine, but the nuts and bolts matter. Some like and value districts, some clearly don't. My issue is that teams don't get to pick all their games. Our district forces us to play teams who drag our PR down Then there must have been an amendment on the floor. That's the only way it passed properly at the convention. Otherwise the final document is what was voted on. but yet the articles about the convention basically skip over this change... if there was an amendment on the floor, it would have been reported by the media this link cdn.lhsaa.org/uploads/images/2016AdjustedVotingResultsbyIndividual.xlsx shows no mention of an amendment on the floor |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2016 7:15:55 GMT -6
Someone should propose to throw out this made up rule, and go back to the old Power Ranking system THIS YEAR. I say let it fly this year. Let everyone see how it works. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 14:43:47 GMT -6
I say let it fly this year. Let everyone see how it works.
We all saw how well the 3 game series worked last year. Hopefully, the changes made to the rules on that work better than last year.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 16:18:30 GMT -6
I say let it fly this year. Let everyone see how it works. We all saw how well the 3 game series worked last year. Hopefully, the changes made to the rules on that work better than last year. There is a vote this year to return to the old formula. |
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Post by chalmetteowl on Jan 4, 2017 16:36:41 GMT -6
the 3 game series are great, but again, the nuts and bolts of it matter
now that you have more championships, it's a good opportunity to cut every bracket down to 16 teams. That way, you can have best 2/3 series in each round. Play the first game in the middle of the week at the lower seed's home, then games 2 and 3 if necessary at the higher seed's home on either Friday and Saturday or a Saturday doubleheader
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Post by chalmetteowl on Jan 27, 2017 13:07:05 GMT -6
I say let it fly this year. Let everyone see how it works. We all saw how well the 3 game series worked last year. Hopefully, the changes made to the rules on that work better than last year. There is a vote this year to return to the old formula. so this vote passed... what gives? you pass a new formula, prepare for it when schedules are made, then don't even play by it? these are the principals educating our kids... |
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Post by khsyellowjackets94 on Jan 29, 2017 22:10:36 GMT -6
I say let it fly this year. Let everyone see how it works. We all saw how well the 3 game series worked last year. Hopefully, the changes made to the rules on that work better than last year. There is a vote this year to return to the old formula. A 3 game series is dumb for high school baseball, especially at the small school level. The playoffs worked just fine for years as single elimination tournament. Guess they wanted to get more money out of it or something. |
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Post by KnowItAll on Jan 30, 2017 12:25:03 GMT -6
There is a vote this year to return to the old formula. so this vote passed... what gives? you pass a new formula, prepare for it when schedules are made, then don't even play by it? these are the principals educating our kids... The coaches voted to go back to the old PR formula because they weren't sold yet on the new formula that had many questions still needed to be answered about it. |
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Post by Brad on Feb 5, 2017 9:01:02 GMT -6
Does this take affect this season or next?
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