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Post by coach4christ on May 2, 2016 8:09:46 GMT -6
Look at the 2nd round of the baseball brackets for 1A and 2A. In 1A, of the 16 teams in the 2nd round, 14 are private. In 2A 11 of the 16 are private. There is a reason the split was voted on. 1A and 2A schools are playing against uneven competition. Something needed to be done and hopefully it has been.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on May 2, 2016 8:37:04 GMT -6
Look at the 2nd round of the baseball brackets for 1A and 2A. In 1A, of the 16 teams in the 2nd round, 14 are private. In 2A 11 of the 16 are private. There is a reason the split was voted on. 1A and 2A schools are playing against uneven competition. Something needed to be done and hopefully it has been. I talked to a friend of mine at Toledo Bend about this, this weekend. We came to the conclusion that in baseball & softball the reason so many of the "select" teams/schools are good is that they have played travel ball together for years together. Not saying this is the reason but one that we decided possibly could be.
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Post by eag on May 2, 2016 8:37:27 GMT -6
Baseball/softball and soccer tend to be better in private schools due to the influence of expensive travel teams. If the split had started there it would have made more sense.
The sport that needed it least (well, maybe basketball) is the one that got it first.
Again, no one here has an issue with balancing competition. Just do it selectively.
Also, if the private baseball teams in 1 and 2A were playing in 3-4A would they be dominating? Less likely for sure.
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Post by wildcat on May 2, 2016 8:39:56 GMT -6
Look at softball.
In 2A there were 4 publics and 4 privates in Sulphur in the QF's, and lucky for us a public played a private in every game, with the privates outscoring the publics 37-3. In 1A there were only 2 publics in Sulphur and they went 0-2 against privates.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 9:23:47 GMT -6
Why do the select school pundits think playing up in classification is the answer? Yes, this may "level the playing field" somewhat. The Bigger question is, why is this necessary if everything is being done within the spirit of the eligibility rules?
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Post by btown on May 2, 2016 10:22:40 GMT -6
Look at softball. In 2A there were 4 publics and 4 privates in Sulphur in the QF's, and lucky for us a public played a private in every game, with the privates outscoring the publics 37-3. In 1A there were only 2 publics in Sulphur and they went 0-2 against privates. Yes, I watched it. I have girls that play summer ball and have seen how kids go from one private school to another private school. Do they sit out a year, yes. But with attendance zones public schools have this is not allowed even if they sit out 1 year. The split cannot come soon enough. Call me what you want, call the system with the split what you want I do not care. I understand why the principals in the public schools feel the way they do.
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Post by eag on May 2, 2016 10:51:54 GMT -6
Why do the select school pundits think playing up in classification is the answer? Yes, this may "level the playing field" somewhat. The Bigger question is, why is this necessary if everything is being done within the spirit of the eligibility rules? It is the answer because it levels the playing field as you just said. Even bigger bigger question is, why do public school supporters not care about the non-level playing field in the select brackets? If the playing field is somewhat leveled ( which is all that can happen under any process), what other factor is there other than trying to harm private schools?
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 11:18:22 GMT -6
Why do the select school pundits think playing up in classification is the answer? Yes, this may "level the playing field" somewhat. The Bigger question is, why is this necessary if everything is being done within the spirit of the eligibility rules? It is the answer because it levels the playing field as you just said. Even bigger bigger question is, why do public school supporters not care about the non-level playing field in the select brackets? If the playing field is somewhat leveled ( which is all that can happen under any process), what other factor is there other than trying to harm private schools? But it shows the advantage the select schools have, if you agree it is the answer. As for your your follow up question, I think the problem is 2 fold and should be approached as such. 1) Classify schools by how they attain, deny, and retain enrollment 2) Allow each classification autonomy (to a point) of themeselves as far as class division, playoff brackets, multipliers etc.... If we can agree that the ways schools attain, deny, and retain enrollment makes our state so diverse that a split is necessary (and we have already agreed to that) then we should furthermore agree that each "type" of schools should be able to have more input into their respective divisions.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 12:19:45 GMT -6
Look at the 2nd round of the baseball brackets for 1A and 2A. In 1A, of the 16 teams in the 2nd round, 14 are private. In 2A 11 of the 16 are private. There is a reason the split was voted on. 1A and 2A schools are playing against uneven competition. Something needed to be done and hopefully it has been. Go look at the final 8 in the 2A bseball bracket it will be an all private school quarter finals. 2A is the classification that needs to be fixed somehow in every sport.
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Post by btown on May 2, 2016 12:44:11 GMT -6
Baseball/softball and soccer tend to be better in private schools due to the influence of expensive travel teams. If the split had started there it would have made more sense. The sport that needed it least (well, maybe basketball) is the one that got it first. Again, no one here has an issue with balancing competition. Just do it selectively. Also, if the private baseball teams in 1 and 2A were playing in 3-4A would they be dominating? Less likely for sure. I will tell you this the champion and runner up in 2A softball would have won in any class.
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Post by eag on May 2, 2016 13:25:25 GMT -6
It is the answer because it levels the playing field as you just said. Even bigger bigger question is, why do public school supporters not care about the non-level playing field in the select brackets? If the playing field is somewhat leveled ( which is all that can happen under any process), what other factor is there other than trying to harm private schools? But it shows the advantage the select schools have, if you agree it is the answer. As for your your follow up question, I think the problem is 2 fold and should be approached as such. 1) Classify schools by how they attain, deny, and retain enrollment 2) Allow each classification autonomy (to a point) of themeselves as far as class division, playoff brackets, multipliers etc.... If we can agree that the ways schools attain, deny, and retain enrollment makes our state so diverse that a split is necessary (and we have already agreed to that) then we should furthermore agree that each "type" of schools should be able to have more input into their respective divisions. I do not agree that Classify schools by how they attain, deny, and retain enrollment is the answer. I did state that moving excessively successful schools is the answer. The reason I believe this is that, yes, many private schools are dominant and they can 'select' students. Many are not dominant and they also can select students. Many public schools are quite dominant as well. So, all these schools pay to be part of an organization that is supposed to protect their competitive interests, and said organization is more than happy to move non-dominant privates so they can get rid of dominant ones. Why do you assert that how they attain, deny, and retain enrollment is the only factor that should be used to classify?
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Post by eag on May 2, 2016 13:36:25 GMT -6
Baseball/softball and soccer tend to be better in private schools due to the influence of expensive travel teams. If the split had started there it would have made more sense. The sport that needed it least (well, maybe basketball) is the one that got it first. Again, no one here has an issue with balancing competition. Just do it selectively. Also, if the private baseball teams in 1 and 2A were playing in 3-4A would they be dominating? Less likely for sure. I will tell you this the champion and runner up in 2A softball would have won in any class. Interesting that the 5A champ and 2A runner-up come from the same town, which is a huge baseball/softball focused area. Clearly the private school hasn't cornered the talent market as enough were left to create a 5A champ. Not to mention most other local schools were playoff teams too. Probably mostly a factor of the huge emphasis on those sports in that area, and likely one reason football lags a bit there as well. Tons of high-level travel ball kids, etc. But, I'd have no issue with saying those 2A schools need to be moved up. They may have won this year in higher classes, but no way would they dominate year in/year out.
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Post by btown on May 2, 2016 16:40:24 GMT -6
I will tell you this the champion and runner up in 2A softball would have won in any class. Interesting that the 5A champ and 2A runner-up come from the same town, which is a huge baseball/softball focused area. Clearly the private school hasn't cornered the talent market as enough were left to create a 5A champ. Not to mention most other local schools were playoff teams too. Probably mostly a factor of the huge emphasis on those sports in that area, and likely one reason football lags a bit there as well. Tons of high-level travel ball kids, etc. But, I'd have no issue with saying those 2A schools need to be moved up. They may have won this year in higher classes, but no way would they dominate year in/year out. Need to look at how long Menard has dominated and Calvary has built a team that will dominate year in/year out.
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laprepfb
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Post by laprepfb on May 2, 2016 20:07:28 GMT -6
Interesting that the 5A champ and 2A runner-up come from the same town, which is a huge baseball/softball focused area. Clearly the private school hasn't cornered the talent market as enough were left to create a 5A champ. Not to mention most other local schools were playoff teams too. Probably mostly a factor of the huge emphasis on those sports in that area, and likely one reason football lags a bit there as well. Tons of high-level travel ball kids, etc. But, I'd have no issue with saying those 2A schools need to be moved up. They may have won this year in higher classes, but no way would they dominate year in/year out. Need to look at how long Menard has dominated and Calvary has built a team that will dominate year in/year out. Need to look at how long Hackberry has dominated as well...6 championships in a row.
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Post by btown on May 2, 2016 20:11:12 GMT -6
Need to look at how long Menard has dominated and Calvary has built a team that will dominate year in/year out. Need to look at how long Hackberry has dominated as well...6 championships in a row. B and C need to be combined. Like see a Hackberry Florien finale game.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 20:27:09 GMT -6
Need to look at how long Hackberry has dominated as well...6 championships in a row. B and C need to be combined. Like see a Hackberry Florien finale game. I can assure you. No one is moving to Hackberry Louisiana for athletic purposes.
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laprepfb
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Post by laprepfb on May 2, 2016 20:45:21 GMT -6
Interesting that the 5A champ and 2A runner-up come from the same town, which is a huge baseball/softball focused area. Clearly the private school hasn't cornered the talent market as enough were left to create a 5A champ. Not to mention most other local schools were playoff teams too. Probably mostly a factor of the huge emphasis on those sports in that area, and likely one reason football lags a bit there as well. Tons of high-level travel ball kids, etc. But, I'd have no issue with saying those 2A schools need to be moved up. They may have won this year in higher classes, but no way would they dominate year in/year out. Need to look at how long Menard has dominated and Calvary has built a team that will dominate year in/year out. I can't answer this for certain because I don't know, but if they are like the vast majority of Catholic schools - especially those that are nowhere near other Catholic schools, i.e. St Fred, St Mary, St Louis, etc. - and I suspect they are - I would imagine Menard's roster is comprised entirely of girls who have attended Catholic schools their entire lives. That is one great scouting and culling system they have to identify these stud softball players in Pre-K and steer them to Cabrini, St. Rita's, Prompt Succor, etc. I would venture a guess that there are far more Catholic elementary school kids on ASH's roster than public ones on Menard's.
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laprepfb
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Post by laprepfb on May 3, 2016 4:14:09 GMT -6
B and C need to be combined. Like see a Hackberry Florien finale game. I can assure you. No one is moving to Hackberry Louisiana for athletic purposes. I'm not saying they are. I'm just using one of the many split supporter tactics. If they dominate, they must be doing something wrong. It's as ridiculous here as it is to say Hanson Memorial is using their private status to stockpile softball players.
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Post by pioneer on May 3, 2016 6:08:25 GMT -6
Need to look at how long Menard has dominated and Calvary has built a team that will dominate year in/year out. Need to look at how long Hackberry has dominated as well...6 championships in a row. 6 in a row!!!! Move them to 5a.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 9:20:26 GMT -6
Need to look at how long Hackberry has dominated as well...6 championships in a row. 6 in a row!!!! Move them to 5a. And have never denied entrance to a single kid from their LEA assigned zone.
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Post by eag on May 3, 2016 10:39:10 GMT -6
Interesting that the 5A champ and 2A runner-up come from the same town, which is a huge baseball/softball focused area. Clearly the private school hasn't cornered the talent market as enough were left to create a 5A champ. Not to mention most other local schools were playoff teams too. Probably mostly a factor of the huge emphasis on those sports in that area, and likely one reason football lags a bit there as well. Tons of high-level travel ball kids, etc. But, I'd have no issue with saying those 2A schools need to be moved up. They may have won this year in higher classes, but no way would they dominate year in/year out. Need to look at how long Menard has dominated and Calvary has built a team that will dominate year in/year out. Yes, Menard has been very good in softball for several years, but do you have any idea just how big softball/baseball is around central La? It is massively popular, far more so than football and basketball, and there are many high level travel ball teams. Even the Dixie teams are very good. The public high school in Alexandria just won 5A softball title - there really are just that many good players around the area. Almost every girl athlete in the area has spent a bunch of hours in batting cages, etc, and the ones that stick with it past preteen/ junior high age are damn good. There are dozens of girls at any central La high school who could play for many teams ( public or private) around the state who don't even try out because they know how good the other girls are - they played on teams with them for years. Now, I'm not against the idea of moving a team like that up in class. Regardless of whether the advantage is due to enrollment, recruiting, or just an accident of geography and what is popular - it can be demonstrated that they are dominating their class. But Dunham is 50th in power ranking. McGehee is 40th. Why do those need to be moved up because Menard is good? They would then be in a bracket with Menard and Calvary while being less able to match up with them than Rosepine for instance. Again, why not move what needs moving?
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Post by pinion on May 3, 2016 10:45:08 GMT -6
It is the answer because it levels the playing field as you just said. Even bigger bigger question is, why do public school supporters not care about the non-level playing field in the select brackets? If the playing field is somewhat leveled ( which is all that can happen under any process), what other factor is there other than trying to harm private schools? But it shows the advantage the select schools have, if you agree it is the answer. As for your your follow up question, I think the problem is 2 fold and should be approached as such. 1) Classify schools by how they attain, deny, and retain enrollment 2) Allow each classification autonomy (to a point) of themeselves as far as class division, playoff brackets, multipliers etc.... If we can agree that the ways schools attain, deny, and retain enrollment makes our state so diverse that a split is necessary (and we have already agreed to that) then we should furthermore agree that each "type" of schools should be able to have more input into their respective divisions. Maybe you agreed to it, but there are a lot of out here that feel like you're full of crap. Because public schools have the ability to open up their enrollment to whomever from wherever, and they don't. Offering to play up is a compromise to appease your side of the fence. I realize that the concept of actual compromise is something you cannot grasp.
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Post by iknownuthing on May 3, 2016 11:02:02 GMT -6
Look at softball. In 2A there were 4 publics and 4 privates in Sulphur in the QF's, and lucky for us a public played a private in every game, with the privates outscoring the publics 37-3. In 1A there were only 2 publics in Sulphur and they went 0-2 against privates. So what do you do with Kaplan, which won their second consecutive 3A softball championship? Either they are not in the spirit of the eligibility rules or they some some inherent advantage? How could it be that a 3A public school could compete if not. After all Notre Dame is in that same class and district I believe.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 11:10:42 GMT -6
Look at softball. In 2A there were 4 publics and 4 privates in Sulphur in the QF's, and lucky for us a public played a private in every game, with the privates outscoring the publics 37-3. In 1A there were only 2 publics in Sulphur and they went 0-2 against privates. So what do you do with Kaplan, which won their second consecutive 3A softball championship? Either they are not in the spirit of the eligibility rules or they some some inherent advantage? How could it be that a 3A public school could compete if not. After all Notre Dame is in that same class and district I believe. The advantage Kaplan has is they work at it and dont go out and get players, while not allowing others into their school if they cant contribute. Stop whining and work harder
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Post by iknownuthing on May 3, 2016 11:18:47 GMT -6
Why do the select school pundits think playing up in classification is the answer? Yes, this may "level the playing field" somewhat. The Bigger question is, why is this necessary if everything is being done within the spirit of the eligibility rules? Again, WHO, which one, what school public or private, is by the LHSAA rulings, violated the spirit of the rules? NO one. If there is a "spirit" of the rule, it has no enforcement, thus they have no meaning. The rules states that you have to meet the conditions of the rule to be eligible not the spirit. If you do so, then you are eligible. The problem is that any time you say "the spirit of the rules" you are open to opinion and conjecture which is not admissible as evidence of wrong doing and devoid of reason. What is the spirit of these rules cannot be ascertained until it is tested in a court of law or sent to arbitration. So far every time that has happened, the LHSAA rule as written has lost. By precedent, if the LHSAA allows one public school such as W. Monroe to violate the actual rule and receive a transfer from W. Ouachita, then by precedent, every other school in the state both public and private must be allowed the same "spirit". So it is not the "spirit" of the rule that has been abused or violated. Or for that matter the rule itself. When any governing organization such as the LHSAA succumbs to emotions, it fails in its mission. For emotions are irrational and can be incoherently out of control. The public school principals have cast the LHSAA into a "spirit" of emotion that is leading to devastating chaos for ALL it's members.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 11:26:33 GMT -6
Why do the select school pundits think playing up in classification is the answer? Yes, this may "level the playing field" somewhat. The Bigger question is, why is this necessary if everything is being done within the spirit of the eligibility rules? Again, WHO, which one, what school public or private, is by the LHSAA rulings, violated the spirit of the rules? NO one. If there is a "spirit" of the rule, it has no enforcement, thus they have no meaning. The rules states that you have to meet the conditions of the rule to be eligible not the spirit. If you do so, then you are eligible. The problem is that any time you say "the spirit of the rules" you are open to opinion and conjecture which is not admissible as evidence of wrong doing and devoid of reason. What is the spirit of these rules cannot be ascertained until it is tested in a court of law or sent to arbitration. So far every time that has happened, the LHSAA rule as written has lost. By precedent, if the LHSAA allows one public school such as W. Monroe to violate the actual rule and receive a transfer from W. Ouachita, then by precedent, every other school in the state both public and private must be allowed the same "spirit". So it is not the "spirit" of the rule that has been abused or violated. Or for that matter the rule itself. When any governing organization such as the LHSAA succumbs to emotions, it fails in its mission. For emotions are irrational and can be incoherently out of control. The public school principals have cast the LHSAA into a "spirit" of emotion that is leading to devastating chaos for ALL it's members. Your right, I'm sure. Thats why we are split. You are also butthurt. The "emotions" of the governing body is based on 30 plus years of facts. The insinuation that "it just happens" that select schools routinely dominate % wise on a statewide level, and have for years and years, is just that "it just happens". You, and people like you, are the reason this "happened" Now, its over. Suck your sugar tit and cry to someone who cares (no one). Legislative solution, done. Bonine, lame duck. SHHHHHHHHH...........embrace the split. Embrace the horror of playing schools like yourself, and NOT being able to play schools that dont wish to play you. SHHHHHHHHH...........it will all be over soon. Count backwards from 100...............sleep................sleep
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Post by eag on May 3, 2016 11:31:41 GMT -6
So what do you do with Kaplan, which won their second consecutive 3A softball championship? Either they are not in the spirit of the eligibility rules or they some some inherent advantage? How could it be that a 3A public school could compete if not. After all Notre Dame is in that same class and district I believe. The advantage Kaplan has is they work at it and dont go out and get players, while not allowing others into their school if they cant contribute. Stop whining and work harder So it's impossible that Calvary or Menard has worked hard and simply had softball tryouts that the kids enrolled in the school could come out for if they desired to play?
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Post by chalmetteowl on May 3, 2016 11:50:22 GMT -6
Look at softball. In 2A there were 4 publics and 4 privates in Sulphur in the QF's, and lucky for us a public played a private in every game, with the privates outscoring the publics 37-3. In 1A there were only 2 publics in Sulphur and they went 0-2 against privates. So what do you do with Kaplan, which won their second consecutive 3A softball championship? Either they are not in the spirit of the eligibility rules or they some some inherent advantage? How could it be that a 3A public school could compete if not. After all Notre Dame is in that same class and district I believe. correction they lost the first to John Curtis by one run... but still
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 12:32:45 GMT -6
The advantage Kaplan has is they work at it and dont go out and get players, while not allowing others into their school if they cant contribute. Stop whining and work harder So it's impossible that Calvary or Menard has worked hard and simply had softball tryouts that the kids enrolled in the school could come out for if they desired to play? Its also possible that the coach or assistant coach runs softball camps all summer and encourages kids at an early age to attend his LHSAA school, charging $3200 in softball fees to those he DOESNT want to play, and maybe a touchhhhhhh lower to those he does want to play. Its also possible that some of his players live in Texas. Lots of things are possible.
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Post by chalmetteowl on May 3, 2016 13:19:10 GMT -6
So it's impossible that Calvary or Menard has worked hard and simply had softball tryouts that the kids enrolled in the school could come out for if they desired to play? Its also possible that the coach or assistant coach runs softball camps all summer and encourages kids at an early age to attend his LHSAA school, charging $3200 in softball fees to those he DOESNT want to play, and maybe a touchhhhhhh lower to those he does want to play. Its also possible that some of his players live in Texas. Lots of things are possible. You raise a good point... if you don't live in Louisiana, you shouldn't be allowed to play at an LHSAA school even if otherwise eligible
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