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Post by btown on Apr 27, 2016 12:58:02 GMT -6
Yes, everyone feels sorry for Evangel, not that the mediocre coaching along with Calvary getting the bulk of the mercenary players, has ended the dominance. As for Many, do a little research on the kids zoned for other schools that play football at Many. You will find a big, fat, zero. If you are talking about history, lets...........how long did it take Evangel and Calvary to vault to athletic power..............now...........lets study Many's up and down years. We all know, You know, its just your bubble had been burst. Shhhhhhhh Good grief you can be tough to have a reasoned discussion with. I am trying to arrive at what you actually see as wrong with proposals I've made. You have been clearly told what I think is wrong with the split -- it makes small, normal private schools and puts them in a worse position. As far as the discussion of Many vs Menard above --Many can have kids that would otherwise go to non-football schools in Sabine Parish, but does not have to take the non-football kids. I don't know if they do, but they can. By your own words, that is more important than if they do. Now, instead of insulting me or discussing schools I never once mentioned, can you tell me what is wrong specifically with an Indiana-type proposal? What does it not give you? It certainly solves the problem of competitive balance. I disgree with you on small normal private schools are in a worse position. They are in the same position as they were in the old system. The split did not improve anything for them. That is one of the fixes I think needs to happen with the split. But first they must fix the brackets to make it equal games for select and non select schools, then you can move to those small private schools.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Apr 27, 2016 12:59:51 GMT -6
Yes I would be defensive. That is why, I think, the only way the schools can ever get back together is if a group of principals (both public & private) get together and come up with a solution. Even then I'm not sure if it will pass. If that doesn't pass I would be for the private schools to form their own league/association or join a different one, even if it's the MAIS. I'm not for the split, but understand some of what the split supporters feel are the problems. I just wish the principals wouldn't have taken a shotgun approach. Identify the problem and find a solution. In time the system will develope into something everyone likes, just has never be able to move forward. I'm afraid all the split supporters want is a complete split in all the "major sports" as voted in this past Jan. I'm not sure that is what you mean by develop or not. I was just saying that I wish there could be a plan to bring all schools back together.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 13:01:35 GMT -6
Good grief you can be tough to have a reasoned discussion with. I am trying to arrive at what you actually see as wrong with proposals I've made. You have been clearly told what I think is wrong with the split -- it makes small, normal private schools and puts them in a worse position. As far as the discussion of Many vs Menard above --Many can have kids that would otherwise go to non-football schools in Sabine Parish, but does not have to take the non-football kids. I don't know if they do, but they can. By your own words, that is more important than if they do. Now, instead of insulting me or discussing schools I never once mentioned, can you tell me what is wrong specifically with an Indiana-type proposal? What does it not give you? It certainly solves the problem of competitive balance. I disgree with you on small normal private schools are in a worse position. They are in the same position as they were in the old system. The split did not improve anything for them. That is one of the fixes I think needs to happen with the split. But first they must fix the brackets to make it equal games for select and non select schools, then you can move to those small private schools. The Indiana proposal punished teams for their predecessor's success. Simple. Ex post Facto
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Post by btown on Apr 27, 2016 13:02:40 GMT -6
In time the system will develope into something everyone likes, just has never be able to move forward. I'm afraid all the split supporters want is a complete split in all the "major sports" as voted in this past Jan. I'm not sure that is what you mean by develop or not. I was just saying that I wish there could be a plan to bring all schools back together. If you want that they need to send Bonine home. He was not the root of the problem at the beginning but is now.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Apr 27, 2016 13:10:13 GMT -6
In time the system will develope into something everyone likes, just has never be able to move forward. Agree 100%. When the elite have had their way for SO long, they really rebel at equality sought by the oppressed. DOWN TO THE MAN!!!! Bob I went to public school in the 80's, only went to playoffs 1 time. Back then the powerhouse schools were Winnfield, Jonesboro-Hodge, Haynesville, WM, and the like (all public schools). I know all NLA schools that is just where I'm from. I choose to send my son to private school (as you can tell from screen name) not for athletics but for academics. I'm sure some parents choose the school they send their child to for athletics but the people I know they choose for the academic's and sports are just extra curricular activities. That is why I don't like the split. It doesn't address all the problems, I know your reasons (obtain, retain.....), but that isn't the reason the split first came into place. The public school principals (mainly 2A) got tire of getting beat by E & JC, which is why a plan similar to what eag stated might work to bring us back together. The advantages will be present on the field and the evaluations/success metric will put them up in class where they need to be. This will "even/balance" the playing field that some of the split supporters are saying is the reason.
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Post by eag on Apr 27, 2016 15:53:01 GMT -6
I disgree with you on small normal private schools are in a worse position. They are in the same position as they were in the old system. The split did not improve anything for them. That is one of the fixes I think needs to happen with the split. But first they must fix the brackets to make it equal games for select and non select schools, then you can move to those small private schools. The Indiana proposal punished teams for their predecessor's success. Simple. Ex post Facto1) The split punishes schools for the success of entirely different schools 2) Isn't that the reason yall want to split off private schools? The way they obtain students causes them to have prolonged success, i.e. this year's team is judged by the success of previous teams? 2) Do you not believe that with the "return to class" option I posted earlier that the situation is mitigated? There would be no class of players that would be 'harmed', as the only way a team would move up is to have been to the Dome 2 years in row and won 1. What kid wouldn't want to play on a team so good it got moved up? Fail to win a playoff game that year, move back down. No school can possibly be punished that way.
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Post by eag on Apr 27, 2016 15:54:19 GMT -6
Good grief you can be tough to have a reasoned discussion with. I am trying to arrive at what you actually see as wrong with proposals I've made. You have been clearly told what I think is wrong with the split -- it makes small, normal private schools and puts them in a worse position. As far as the discussion of Many vs Menard above --Many can have kids that would otherwise go to non-football schools in Sabine Parish, but does not have to take the non-football kids. I don't know if they do, but they can. By your own words, that is more important than if they do. Now, instead of insulting me or discussing schools I never once mentioned, can you tell me what is wrong specifically with an Indiana-type proposal? What does it not give you? It certainly solves the problem of competitive balance. I disgree with you on small normal private schools are in a worse position. They are in the same position as they were in the old system. The split did not improve anything for them. That is one of the fixes I think needs to happen with the split. But first they must fix the brackets to make it equal games for select and non select schools, then you can move to those small private schools. Would you rather be in a pond with 100 other baitfish and 20 sharks, or one with 20 other baitfish and 20 sharks?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 19:51:36 GMT -6
1) The split punishes schools for the success of entirely different schools 2) Isn't that the reason yall want to split off private schools? The way they obtain students causes them to have prolonged success, i.e. this year's team is judged by the success of previous teams? 2) Do you not believe that with the "return to class" option I posted earlier that the situation is mitigated? There would be no class of players that would be 'harmed', as the only way a team would move up is to have been to the Dome 2 years in row and won 1. What kid wouldn't want to play on a team so good it got moved up? Fail to win a playoff game that year, move back down. No school can possibly be punished that way. Multiplier. Most states have gone to this.
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Post by eag on Apr 27, 2016 20:35:55 GMT -6
1) The split punishes schools for the success of entirely different schools 2) Isn't that the reason yall want to split off private schools? The way they obtain students causes them to have prolonged success, i.e. this year's team is judged by the success of previous teams? 2) Do you not believe that with the "return to class" option I posted earlier that the situation is mitigated? There would be no class of players that would be 'harmed', as the only way a team would move up is to have been to the Dome 2 years in row and won 1. What kid wouldn't want to play on a team so good it got moved up? Fail to win a playoff game that year, move back down. No school can possibly be punished that way. Multiplier. Most states have gone to this. I'm fine with a multiplier. Fine with anything that is a more directed solution then this crazy public/private split that just creates animosity.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 21:22:43 GMT -6
Multiplier. Most states have gone to this. I'm fine with a multiplier. Fine with anything that is a more directed solution then this crazy public/private split that just creates animosity. Why do you think the non select schools are avoiding it? The public schools don't care if the privates leave. They are happy with the current situation. If you read my article I posted, you will see what I am talking about. Instead of proposing bizarre metro/rural plans that no one has ever heard of, why not present a plan that isn't too far fetched?
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Post by btown on Apr 28, 2016 5:47:30 GMT -6
Until the split is left alone we will never move forward. The split is here whether you like it or not. Schools have two choices move forward with the split or leave LHSAA to form a new league.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 6:42:15 GMT -6
I would rather leave it up to my peers than have a "central government" style committee voting it. Not only are the people working at the lhsaa incompetent, they really just dont care. Same goes for the central office in our parish. The only people i do trust are the people i coach against, rival included.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 6:49:56 GMT -6
Back to my 1st question---If the rules are enforced across the board on every school, would you be in favor of coming back together for the playoffs? There is no 1 yr sit rule for out of zone players. If there was then most public school coaches would agree to stay together
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Apr 28, 2016 6:55:27 GMT -6
Back to my 1st question---If the rules are enforced across the board on every school, would you be in favor of coming back together for the playoffs? There is no 1 yr sit rule for out of zone players. If there was then most public school coaches would agree to stay together Whatever is the first high school attended is that students school of choice, immediately eligible. If that student then transfers to another school then they have to sit out for 1 year, this is the same at both private and public schools.
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Post by btown on Apr 28, 2016 6:59:04 GMT -6
Back to my 1st question---If the rules are enforced across the board on every school, would you be in favor of coming back together for the playoffs? There is no 1 yr sit rule for out of zone players. If there was then most public school coaches would agree to stay together Attendance zones deal with School Boards not LHSAA. That is why public school feel they are handicapped, they have to follow the School Boards rules and LHSAA rules.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 7:07:42 GMT -6
There is no 1 yr sit rule for out of zone players. If there was then most public school coaches would agree to stay together Attendance zones deal with School Boards not LHSAA. That is why public school feel they are handicapped, they have to follow the School Boards rules and LHSAA rules. Agreed.
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Post by eag on Apr 28, 2016 8:35:11 GMT -6
Until the split is left alone we will never move forward. The split is here whether you like it or not. Schools have two choices move forward with the split or leave LHSAA to form a new league. You've always seemed like a reasonable guy on here. This statement seems to indicate to me that any solution that does not separate any and all private schools will never be considered. If that is the case then it is a sad day indeed when people/institutions are punished for sins of other institutions that they have no control over, and the community at large stands by and watches it happen because at least the punishment got the guys we wanted to get, and oh well about the rest. Now, a statement like ' we need to fix the competitive imbalances and there is no way we will just ignore those imbalances anymore' is a different thing. At least there is still room to come up with something.
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Post by eag on Apr 28, 2016 8:44:28 GMT -6
I'm fine with a multiplier. Fine with anything that is a more directed solution then this crazy public/private split that just creates animosity. Why do you think the non select schools are avoiding it? The public schools don't care if the privates leave. They are happy with the current situation. If you read my article I posted, you will see what I am talking about. Instead of proposing bizarre metro/rural plans that no one has ever heard of, why not present a plan that isn't too far fetched? I am starting to believe that there really is simply a prejudice against Private schools and that some folks just don't want to associate with them at all. If it were about competitive balance, then suggestions such as Raven, myself, and others have advanced would at least stimulate a give and take discussion. But they have not. Split, split, split is the only acceptable solution. Public schools tweaking or ignoring rules to gain advantage don't seem to be a problem, and weak private school programs with no rel history of success do still seem to be a problem. What does that tell you about this supposedly being about competitive advantage? I used to not think this, and I hope I am wrong, but the lack of even being able to consider anything that doesn't separate EVERY SINGLE private school is hard to ignore.
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Post by deadman318 on Apr 28, 2016 8:51:39 GMT -6
As far as the privates as concerned... I would think people would be lining up to play Calvary right now...
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Post by Raven on Apr 28, 2016 9:25:05 GMT -6
Why do you think the non select schools are avoiding it? The public schools don't care if the privates leave. They are happy with the current situation. If you read my article I posted, you will see what I am talking about. Instead of proposing bizarre metro/rural plans that no one has ever heard of, why not present a plan that isn't too far fetched? I am starting to believe that there really is simply a prejudice against Private schools and that some folks just don't want to associate with them at all. If it were about competitive balance, then suggestions such as Raven, myself, and others have advanced would at least stimulate a give and take discussion. But they have not. Split, split, split is the only acceptable solution. Public schools tweaking or ignoring rules to gain advantage don't seem to be a problem, and weak private school programs with no rel history of success do still seem to be a problem. What does that tell you about this supposedly being about competitive advantage? I used to not think this, and I hope I am wrong, but the lack of even being able to consider anything that doesn't separate EVERY SINGLE private school is hard to ignore. It has been evident from the beginning that the loudest voices in favor of the split were not going to be satisfied until every select school was out of the LHSAA. It has been their goal from the beginning. I had hoped that more reasonable principles would prevail, but Bonine's strong-arm tactics have alienated them in such a way that it almost looks as if he has been in league the split proponents from day one. They won't stop until every title in every sport is won by a public school. That appear to be the only thing that will make them happy.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 10:32:03 GMT -6
There is no 1 yr sit rule for out of zone players. If there was then most public school coaches would agree to stay together Whatever is the first high school attended is that students school of choice, immediately eligible. If that student then transfers to another school then they have to sit out for 1 year, this is the same at both private and public schools. Then how is Shelvin eligible at Notre Dame right now. Set up a residency with a relative in Crowley?
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Apr 28, 2016 11:13:29 GMT -6
Whatever is the first high school attended is that students school of choice, immediately eligible. If that student then transfers to another school then they have to sit out for 1 year, this is the same at both private and public schools. Then how is Shelvin eligible at Notre Dame right now. Set up a residency with a relative in Crowley? If that is the kid from Northside, the LHSAA considered it a bonafide move. There are exceptions to the sit out rule, and I don't pretend to know all of them.
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Post by deadman318 on Apr 28, 2016 11:14:42 GMT -6
Then how is Shelvin eligible at Notre Dame right now. Set up a residency with a relative in Crowley? If that is the kid from Northside, the LHSAA considered it a bonafide move. There are exceptions to the sit out rule, and I don't pretend to know all of them. He is legal the way the kids from Wossman and Carroll can go to West Monroe
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Post by chalmetteowl on Apr 28, 2016 11:32:56 GMT -6
I am starting to believe that there really is simply a prejudice against Private schools and that some folks just don't want to associate with them at all. If it were about competitive balance, then suggestions such as Raven, myself, and others have advanced would at least stimulate a give and take discussion. But they have not. Split, split, split is the only acceptable solution. Public schools tweaking or ignoring rules to gain advantage don't seem to be a problem, and weak private school programs with no rel history of success do still seem to be a problem. What does that tell you about this supposedly being about competitive advantage? I used to not think this, and I hope I am wrong, but the lack of even being able to consider anything that doesn't separate EVERY SINGLE private school is hard to ignore. It has been evident from the beginning that the loudest voices in favor of the split were not going to be satisfied until every select school was out of the LHSAA. It has been their goal from the beginning. I had hoped that more reasonable principles would prevail, but Bonine's strong-arm tactics have alienated them in such a way that it almost looks as if he has been in league the split proponents from day one. They won't stop until every title in every sport is won by a public school. That appear to be the only thing that will make them happy. they can vote themselves titles... but they can't vote themselves respect. you can't win a game you don't play. on that token the bare minimum i would accept is still being able to play our rivalry against Holy Cross, but to keep them, we need to keep as a minimum all of the NOLA Catholic League schools.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Apr 29, 2016 10:19:55 GMT -6
It has been evident from the beginning that the loudest voices in favor of the split were not going to be satisfied until every select school was out of the LHSAA. It has been their goal from the beginning. I had hoped that more reasonable principles would prevail, but Bonine's strong-arm tactics have alienated them in such a way that it almost looks as if he has been in league the split proponents from day one. They won't stop until every title in every sport is won by a public school. That appear to be the only thing that will make them happy. they can vote themselves titles... but they can't vote themselves respect. you can't win a game you don't play. on that token the bare minimum i would accept is still being able to play our rivalry against Holy Cross, but to keep them, we need to keep as a minimum all of the NOLA Catholic League schools. There are a lot of good rivalry games that may not get played anymore if the split supporters get their way. Not sure if any plan will satisfy them.
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Post by pinion on Apr 29, 2016 11:00:51 GMT -6
Yeah. hahaha. I remember when Brock Berlin was at ECA and they were facerolling everyone. I heard a lot of people talking about how Evangel had recruited him "all the way from Florida". He was in 3rd or 4th grade when they moved to Shreveport. Nobody can look at a kid that young and tell if they're going to make a great quarterback. Professionals often have a hard time telling if a college QB is going to be okay in the NFL. Do you remember when the WR from Logansport was a senior, and moved to Evangel? I do. Yes, I do remember a couple of guys transferring in to ECA from Logansport. That doesn't mean they were recruited. Their families moved up to Shreveport in their efforts to have the kids play at Evangel. No disrespect meant to anyone, but if you look at the receiving yards ECA was putting up, it's pretty obvious they weren't hurting for people to catch a ball.
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Post by pinion on Apr 29, 2016 11:05:04 GMT -6
Evangel has an attendance zone. So, I'm not sure what your problem is. They take kids from elsewhere, but that child must sit out a year before they can play. so that fixes anyone just showing up and getting on the field. That should be enough. But somehow (no surprise), it's not. All the while, you fail to see that public school boards set attendance zones. Not the LHSAA, not private schools, and football coaches, not you, not me. The school board does it. Find another angle. NOPE, Evangel has an attendance zone for athletics, NOT FOR ENROLLMENT. All public schools have enrollment zones. PRIVATE SCHOOLS DO NOT. Sitting out a year is a mute point. Kid arrives in 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th................so what? They wouldnt be playing varsity anyway. You know the difference. Playing ignorant is not gonna help. Evangel doesnt set the attendance zone for anyone. Public schools choose NOT to take kids from anywhere. So you're mad because a kid chooses to go to a private school in 6th grade? I can see where it might ruffle your feathers if a kid is choosing to ditch right before his 11th or 12 year, but in 6th? Really? You're mad about that? There'll be no making you happy then. Which is not a surprise to me at all.
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Post by chalmetteowl on Apr 30, 2016 7:33:04 GMT -6
Evangel doesnt set the attendance zone for anyone. Public schools choose NOT to take kids from anywhere. So you're mad because a kid chooses to go to a private school in 6th grade? I can see where it might ruffle your feathers if a kid is choosing to ditch right before his 11th or 12 year, but in 6th? Really? You're mad about that? There'll be no making you happy then. Which is not a surprise to me at all. Some kids never spend a single day of their lives in public school...
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laprepfb
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Post by laprepfb on Apr 30, 2016 9:57:31 GMT -6
Whatever is the first high school attended is that students school of choice, immediately eligible. If that student then transfers to another school then they have to sit out for 1 year, this is the same at both private and public schools. Then how is Shelvin eligible at Notre Dame right now. Set up a residency with a relative in Crowley? I'm not commenting on the legality of Shelvin's move or any of these others, but there is much outrage from the public side on this one. Where was the wailing and gnashing of teeth when Banks transferred from St Fred to West Monroe? Or the Cedar Creek kid to Neville? Or Sloan Dieter from St Mary to Barbe? And if Shelvin had made the same move and gone to CHS instead I suppose that would've been acceptable...
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Post by pioneerforlife on Apr 30, 2016 13:22:05 GMT -6
Then how is Shelvin eligible at Notre Dame right now. Set up a residency with a relative in Crowley? I'm not commenting on the legality of Shelvin's move or any of these others, but there is much outrage from the public side on this one. Where was the wailing and gnashing of teeth when Banks transferred from St Fred to West Monroe? Or the Cedar Creek kid to Neville? Or Sloan Dieter from St Mary to Barbe? And if Shelvin had made the same move and gone to CHS instead I suppose that would've been acceptable... Yep move to Crowley acceptable, move to Carencro acceptable move to Acadiana acceptable. Move to ND, STM, or Teurlings and everyone in an uproar
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