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Post by Truthman on Apr 5, 2016 8:28:44 GMT -6
Todd Guice, the out going president of the LHSAA Executive Committee, now has written a letter to the media exclaming his viewpoint on "compromise"
A couple of points before I continue:
1) He has never been a varsity head coach in any sport. 2) He no longer is a principal of a school. 3) When he was a principal (Ouachita HS) he voted FOR the split in football. 4) He currently works in the central office of Ouachita Parish Schools, and has no vested interest in any of this any longer, just opinion
However, with all of that in mind, I dont think Mr. Guice is far off the mark. So, with that in mind, here is MY proposed "Compromise"
A COMPLETELY autonomous "Competition Committee" that can and will place teams, in any classification they choose for competitive purposes. They report to KNOW ONE. They simply look at the facts and place teams. This committee also has the right to remove any team from playoff competition they so choose if they deem said team was in breech, in any way, of luring potentials athletes to their school for athletic purposes. As Mr. Guice pointed out, Article 2 of the LHSAA Constitution is being ignored, however NOT in the way he pointed out. Article 2 specifically states:
"To protect members of the Association by preparing and enforcing eligibility rules that will equalize and stimulate wholesome competition" and, "To prevent the exploitation of member schools’ programs by special interest groups"
It is my contention that this point, that is part of the LHSAA constitution HAS NOT BEEN ENFORECED and the "split" was a way to enforce it!
Now, if the Select Enrollment Sector of this argument is TRULY interested in parity, this option, this idea, this line of thought, SHOULD BE CONSIDERED!!
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Post by Truthman on Apr 5, 2016 8:31:09 GMT -6
Please pardon my grammatical errors. I was in a bit of a hurry!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 9:17:41 GMT -6
Bring 5A and 4A back together, leave everything else the same. This is your compromise once everyone realizes it.
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Post by Truthman on Apr 5, 2016 9:21:11 GMT -6
Bring 5A and 4A back together, leave everything else the same. This is your compromise once everyone realizes it. I dont disagree. That is simpler, and works fine for me as well. However, I dont think the majority of the Select Schools will go for it...................HENCE THE TERM "COMPROMISE"
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 10:45:15 GMT -6
Bring 5A and 4A back together, leave everything else the same. This is your compromise once everyone realizes it. I dont disagree. That is simpler, and works fine for me as well. However, I dont think the majority of the Select Schools will go for it...................HENCE THE TERM "COMPROMISE" I don't think the 4A and 5A non-selects will like it either. But they too will have to compromise. I would also add that the 1-3A schools should be allowed to play up if they want to.
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Post by gentsandpios on Apr 5, 2016 10:48:22 GMT -6
Todd Guice, the out going president of the LHSAA Executive Committee, now has written a letter to the media exclaming his viewpoint on "compromise" A couple of points before I continue: 1) He has never been a varsity head coach in any sport. 2) He no longer is a principal of a school. 3) When he was a principal (Ouachita HS) he voted FOR the split in football. 4) He currently works in the central office of Ouachita Parish Schools, and has no vested interest in any of this any longer, just opinion However, with all of that in mind, I dont think Mr. Guice is far off the mark. So, with that in mind, here is MY proposed "Compromise" A COMPLETELY autonomous "Competition Committee" that can and will place teams, in any classification they choose for competitive purposes. They report to KNOW ONE. They simply look at the facts and place teams. This committee also has the right to remove any team from playoff competition they so choose if they deem said team was in breech, in any way, of luring potentials athletes to their school for athletic purposes. As Mr. Guice pointed out, Article 2 of the LHSAA Constitution is being ignored, however NOT in the way he pointed out. Article 2 specifically states: "To protect members of the Association by preparing and enforcing eligibility rules that will equalize and stimulate wholesome competition" and, "To prevent the exploitation of member schools’ programs by special interest groups" It is my contention that this point, that is part of the LHSAA constitution HAS NOT BEEN ENFORECED and the "split" was a way to enforce it! Now, if the Select Enrollment Sector of this argument is TRULY interested in parity, this option, this idea, this line of thought, SHOULD BE CONSIDERED!! Is there a link to the letter you can post?
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Post by pinion on Apr 5, 2016 10:54:58 GMT -6
I dont disagree. That is simpler, and works fine for me as well. However, I dont think the majority of the Select Schools will go for it...................HENCE THE TERM "COMPROMISE" I don't think the 4A and 5A non-selects will like it either. But they too will have to compromise. I would also add that the 1-3A schools should be allowed to play up if they want to. Great idea! That being said, there have been a lot of great ideas and compromises suggested and nothing... I can't see it happening because: There are more public schools in 4 and 5A than private schools. Public have repeated "private schools cheat" so much, that they really do believe it. Regardless of zero evidence to suggest it. Both side have to come to the table and reach an agreement and I honestly do not believe that a majority of the public schools want to compromise. What we have is exactly what they want and they'll see the LHSAA disband and HS sports go away before they compromise on anything.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 11:07:22 GMT -6
I think the 4A and 5A non-selects have the resources that make it possible to compete with the select schools. There are a number of south la non-selects that would be in favor of my plan.
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Post by Truthman on Apr 5, 2016 11:19:21 GMT -6
4a and 5a had the smallest margin of folks wanting to split in the last two votes. With that in mind, 1A through 3A (inclusive of B and C) could force this compromise. Effectively it gives them what they want (C-3A) while taking the power broker Catholic leagues schoosl out of the split equation.
HERE IS THE PROBLEM however. This would call out men such as Talbot. They WOULD NOT accept it, even though it would in fact be a compromise. They want all or nothing.
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Post by fridaynights on Apr 5, 2016 11:32:08 GMT -6
The bill has NO chance of making it thru the house and past the governor. The principals have spoken.
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Post by Truthman on Apr 5, 2016 12:23:22 GMT -6
Next on the "Bonine Compromise Agenda" will be something along the lines of:
1) Seperate playoffs for a state champion on a H/A basis. 4 weeks of playoffs, 16 teams make the playoffs in Select and Non Select 2) Each State Champion meet in the Superdome for a "Consolidated State Championship"
Mark my words, this is coming down the pipe. Expect this to be proposed to the Executive Committee at the April Session
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 14:32:11 GMT -6
I agree truthman, that's Weiner's plan. I doubt the principals would go for that.
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Post by fridaynights on Apr 5, 2016 19:15:47 GMT -6
Bonine can't make up the rules as he goes. The principals voted the split in. His job is to enforce what was passed by the principals.
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Post by btown on Apr 5, 2016 19:37:38 GMT -6
Todd Guice, the out going president of the LHSAA Executive Committee, now has written a letter to the media exclaming his viewpoint on "compromise" A couple of points before I continue: 1) He has never been a varsity head coach in any sport. 2) He no longer is a principal of a school. 3) When he was a principal (Ouachita HS) he voted FOR the split in football. 4) He currently works in the central office of Ouachita Parish Schools, and has no vested interest in any of this any longer, just opinion However, with all of that in mind, I dont think Mr. Guice is far off the mark. So, with that in mind, here is MY proposed "Compromise" A COMPLETELY autonomous "Competition Committee" that can and will place teams, in any classification they choose for competitive purposes. They report to KNOW ONE. They simply look at the facts and place teams. This committee also has the right to remove any team from playoff competition they so choose if they deem said team was in breech, in any way, of luring potentials athletes to their school for athletic purposes. As Mr. Guice pointed out, Article 2 of the LHSAA Constitution is being ignored, however NOT in the way he pointed out. Article 2 specifically states: "To protect members of the Association by preparing and enforcing eligibility rules that will equalize and stimulate wholesome competition" and, "To prevent the exploitation of member schools’ programs by special interest groups" It is my contention that this point, that is part of the LHSAA constitution HAS NOT BEEN ENFORECED and the "split" was a way to enforce it! Now, if the Select Enrollment Sector of this argument is TRULY interested in parity, this option, this idea, this line of thought, SHOULD BE CONSIDERED!! I also think the same "Competition Committee" should be allowed to evaluate a program and place that program in the correct classification. It should be done by sport and not put all of school athletic program of school in a different classification. Your school population may say the school belongs in a certain class, but the play of the program says you should be a in different class and it should be either way, up or down.
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Post by truthman on Apr 6, 2016 8:10:18 GMT -6
Bonine can't make up the rules as he goes. The principals voted the split in. His job is to enforce what was passed by the principals. Ultimately, you are 100% correct. No argument here. The issue is the constant threats, accusations, etc......has a "weakening effect" on non select principals. Its already happening. I agree. Stand ground on what the principals have voted on, but those votes can change. Now is a GREAT time to work leverage to get a plan in place that is nearly "untouchable"
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Post by fridaynights on Apr 6, 2016 8:34:50 GMT -6
I disagree. The constant one sided press views and constant threats are strengthening the non select principals. The split has been voted on and voted on. People would like the leadership to perfect what they voted in. All the whining and back door ploys are making principals have more determination to stand their ground.
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Post by iknownuthing on Apr 6, 2016 8:53:52 GMT -6
This whole mess is due to unintended consequences. 5A schools got tired of seeing Evangel vs W. Monroe, in some very competitive games, so they sent e down to its school size class 1A. The schools most vocal in that move were all North LA schools. 4A JC which was competitive got demoted to 2A. This sent the 1A and 2A schools into hate mode, misplaced hate mode. Instead of being agree at the 5A schools that through them under the bus so to speak. They struck out against all private schools. It became an unintended consequence, because the intention was to reduce the favored status as a 5A champion that e held. But truth being truth, the greatest pull from e was Calvary Baptist and the rise of Byrd. JC last state championship was 3 years ago. e, even longer than that.
Now we have a total split in all sports. Unless a compromise is accepted, the unintended consequence will be that the LHSAA will lose over 1/3 of its schools. That means, no more Superdome championships and a loss of revenue and status. The most important part is the loss of revenue. What business, and the LHSAA is a business, can have it's revenue cut by 1/3 and maintain viability? There will have to be drastic cuts in salaries, number of employees and expenses. Let me put this into light. Take your take home pay, multiply it by .666 and then see if you can pay your bills as the currently exist. Something will have to go. While the LHSAA will remain as an organization, it will be a shadow of its current self. Whole sports will have to be cut as sanctioned or there will dramatic increases in fees. You can look for the LHSAA to be forced into grabbing a larger portion of all gates.
Possible sport cuts (my opinion) would include as a sanctioned sport: Swimming, Indoor Track, Bowling, Tennis, Golf and possibly Volleyball and baseball. In all of these sports, except Baseball, the select schools make up almost 50% of the schools that offer the sport. And if you have hopes of Field Hockey or LaCrosse as becoming a sanctioned sport it will be out of reason. These will all be offered by the new association.
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Post by Truthman on Apr 6, 2016 9:16:45 GMT -6
This whole mess is due to unintended consequences. 5A schools got tired of seeing Evangel vs W. Monroe, in some very competitive games, so they sent e down to its school size class 1A. The schools most vocal in that move were all North LA schools. 4A JC which was competitive got demoted to 2A. This sent the 1A and 2A schools into hate mode, misplaced hate mode. Instead of being agree at the 5A schools that through them under the bus so to speak. They struck out against all private schools. It became an unintended consequence, because the intention was to reduce the favored status as a 5A champion that e held. But truth being truth, the greatest pull from e was Calvary Baptist and the rise of Byrd. JC last state championship was 3 years ago. e, even longer than that. Now we have a total split in all sports. Unless a compromise is accepted, the unintended consequence will be that the LHSAA will lose over 1/3 of its schools. That means, no more Superdome championships and a loss of revenue and status. The most important part is the loss of revenue. What business, and the LHSAA is a business, can have it's revenue cut by 1/3 and maintain viability? There will have to be drastic cuts in salaries, number of employees and expenses. Let me put this into light. Take your take home pay, multiply it by .666 and then see if you can pay your bills as the currently exist. Something will have to go. While the LHSAA will remain as an organization, it will be a shadow of its current self. Whole sports will have to be cut as sanctioned or there will dramatic increases in fees. You can look for the LHSAA to be forced into grabbing a larger portion of all gates. Possible sport cuts (my opinion) would include as a sanctioned sport: Swimming, Indoor Track, Bowling, Tennis, Golf and possibly Volleyball and baseball. In all of these sports, except Baseball, the select schools make up almost 50% of the schools that offer the sport. And if you have hopes of Field Hockey or LaCrosse as becoming a sanctioned sport it will be out of reason. These will all be offered by the new association. If you lose 1/3 of your schools, you lose 1/3 of your expenses. Math, its wonderful. As far as the Superdome, I just bet everyone would be 100% fine with playing Championships Home/Away. We dont play in the Pels areas for basketball, or a Pro field for Baseball or softball......works out just fine.
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Post by Truthman on Apr 6, 2016 9:18:03 GMT -6
I disagree. The constant one sided press views and constant threats are strengthening the non select principals. The split has been voted on and voted on. People would like the leadership to perfect what they voted in. All the whining and back door ploys are making principals have more determination to stand their ground. You may indeed, be correct. It certainly had the affect when Bonine "proclaimed" the split over, aka style.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2016 10:45:10 GMT -6
This whole mess is due to unintended consequences. 5A schools got tired of seeing Evangel vs W. Monroe, in some very competitive games, so they sent e down to its school size class 1A. The schools most vocal in that move were all North LA schools. 4A JC which was competitive got demoted to 2A. This sent the 1A and 2A schools into hate mode, misplaced hate mode. Instead of being agree at the 5A schools that through them under the bus so to speak. They struck out against all private schools. It became an unintended consequence, because the intention was to reduce the favored status as a 5A champion that e held. But truth being truth, the greatest pull from e was Calvary Baptist and the rise of Byrd. JC last state championship was 3 years ago. e, even longer than that. Now we have a total split in all sports. Unless a compromise is accepted, the unintended consequence will be that the LHSAA will lose over 1/3 of its schools. That means, no more Superdome championships and a loss of revenue and status. The most important part is the loss of revenue. What business, and the LHSAA is a business, can have it's revenue cut by 1/3 and maintain viability? There will have to be drastic cuts in salaries, number of employees and expenses. Let me put this into light. Take your take home pay, multiply it by .666 and then see if you can pay your bills as the currently exist. Something will have to go. While the LHSAA will remain as an organization, it will be a shadow of its current self. Whole sports will have to be cut as sanctioned or there will dramatic increases in fees. You can look for the LHSAA to be forced into grabbing a larger portion of all gates. Possible sport cuts (my opinion) would include as a sanctioned sport: Swimming, Indoor Track, Bowling, Tennis, Golf and possibly Volleyball and baseball. In all of these sports, except Baseball, the select schools make up almost 50% of the schools that offer the sport. And if you have hopes of Field Hockey or LaCrosse as becoming a sanctioned sport it will be out of reason. These will all be offered by the new association. I think many public principals are tired of people telling them how bad it will be if some of the privates leave. They are ready for the privagte schools to either move on to a new organization, or not. Do something, quit telling us how bad we will miss you if you leave. It's like a girlfriend telling you you'll be sorry if she leaves....over, and over, and over again.
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Post by pinion on Apr 6, 2016 10:52:02 GMT -6
This whole mess is due to unintended consequences. 5A schools got tired of seeing Evangel vs W. Monroe, in some very competitive games, so they sent e down to its school size class 1A. The schools most vocal in that move were all North LA schools. 4A JC which was competitive got demoted to 2A. This sent the 1A and 2A schools into hate mode, misplaced hate mode. Instead of being agree at the 5A schools that through them under the bus so to speak. They struck out against all private schools. It became an unintended consequence, because the intention was to reduce the favored status as a 5A champion that e held. But truth being truth, the greatest pull from e was Calvary Baptist and the rise of Byrd. JC last state championship was 3 years ago. e, even longer than that. Now we have a total split in all sports. Unless a compromise is accepted, the unintended consequence will be that the LHSAA will lose over 1/3 of its schools. That means, no more Superdome championships and a loss of revenue and status. The most important part is the loss of revenue. What business, and the LHSAA is a business, can have it's revenue cut by 1/3 and maintain viability? There will have to be drastic cuts in salaries, number of employees and expenses. Let me put this into light. Take your take home pay, multiply it by .666 and then see if you can pay your bills as the currently exist. Something will have to go. While the LHSAA will remain as an organization, it will be a shadow of its current self. Whole sports will have to be cut as sanctioned or there will dramatic increases in fees. You can look for the LHSAA to be forced into grabbing a larger portion of all gates. Possible sport cuts (my opinion) would include as a sanctioned sport: Swimming, Indoor Track, Bowling, Tennis, Golf and possibly Volleyball and baseball. In all of these sports, except Baseball, the select schools make up almost 50% of the schools that offer the sport. And if you have hopes of Field Hockey or LaCrosse as becoming a sanctioned sport it will be out of reason. These will all be offered by the new association. I think many public principals are tired of people telling them how bad it will be if some of the privates leave. They are ready for the privagte schools to either move on to a new organization, or not. Do something, quit telling us how bad we will miss you if you leave. It's like a girlfriend telling you you'll be sorry if she leaves....over, and over, and over again. That may be because 2 organizations will both be not quite as good as 1. Private schools are trying to find solutions to keep 1 organization that works. Public schools are unwilling to compromise at all. As I said yesterday, I believe most public schools would see no HS sports at all before they'll compromise. Read some of the posts on the topic on this forum and it's easy to see how I arrive at that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2016 11:17:18 GMT -6
Bonine really screwed the privates when he decided he would declare the split dead. Really pissed off the public principals. Forced them into a hardline stance. Privates thought they had really stuck it to the publics.
I seriously doubt there will be much compromise after that move.
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Post by Truthman on Apr 6, 2016 12:20:04 GMT -6
Bonine has been poison to both sides since his arrival.
Lets not forget what got us to where we are now. Just because a new way of playoff classification has come to fruition, doesnt change what got us to this point to begin with. If you want to talk "compromise", what compromises were made by the schools who repeadedly pushed the spirit of the eligibility rules with seemingly no remorse or even willingness to admit what and how they aquire athletes.
There are currently over 25 states in America dealing with this very issue as concerned with select/non select. It's NOT just a "Louisiana Thing".
The "compromise" has already happend. It's very simple. Select/Non Select seperate playoffs. Regular season, play who you want. That is indeed, a compromise.
The issue will NEVER be resolved to the select schools satisfaction until they can routinely compete against and defeat their nearest, non select counterparts, in playoff competition. They will settle for nothing less. Without this, the "glamor and shine" of "our private school is better than your public school" doesnt have the appeal it otherwise would.
Lets not forget, parents can still choose to send their children wherever they choose. Kids still get to play. Venues are the same. NOTHING IS DIFFERENT. The ONLY thing that has changed, is the perception of the Select Schools.
Great analogy. As my dear old dad says, "crap, or get off the pot". Your jabber is becoming tiresome.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2016 12:22:35 GMT -6
Bonine really screwed the privates when he decided he would declare the split dead. Really pissed off the public principals. Forced them into a hardline stance. Privates thought they had really stuck it to the publics. I seriously doubt there will be much compromise after that move. Where do you get the privates thought they had really stuck it to the publics? Anyone with half a brain knew they would go back into executive session and correct there oversight. Its so funny how so many people think the privates are trying to stick it to the publics. The privates were voted off to their own playoffs. They are the minority. Public school supporters are constantly defending the principals. Over and over its been repeated on here how these are well educated people, that have nothing but the best interest of the kids at heart. But yet with all these well educated people, all they could come up with was a split. It tells me that they have no interest in really trying to fix things and they should let someone else (like the athletic directors) handle it.
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Post by btown on Apr 6, 2016 17:42:21 GMT -6
Bonine really screwed the privates when he decided he would declare the split dead. Really pissed off the public principals. Forced them into a hardline stance. Privates thought they had really stuck it to the publics. I seriously doubt there will be much compromise after that move. They say the public schools are not wanting work with the privates. Where did Bonine try to bring the two sides together, O wait he tried to back door the split supporters and when that did work he was left trying to figure why the split supporters did not want to work with other side. Stop putting the blame on the public and put the blame where it belongs, BONINE.
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Post by Truthman on Apr 7, 2016 8:35:59 GMT -6
Bonine really screwed the privates when he decided he would declare the split dead. Really pissed off the public principals. Forced them into a hardline stance. Privates thought they had really stuck it to the publics. I seriously doubt there will be much compromise after that move. Where do you get the privates thought they had really stuck it to the publics? Anyone with half a brain knew they would go back into executive session and correct there oversight. Its so funny how so many people think the privates are trying to stick it to the publics. The privates were voted off to their own playoffs. They are the minority. Public school supporters are constantly defending the principals. Over and over its been repeated on here how these are well educated people, that have nothing but the best interest of the kids at heart. But yet with all these well educated people, all they could come up with was a split. It tells me that they have no interest in really trying to fix things and they should let someone else (like the athletic directors) handle it. There is nothing to "fix". Nothing is broken. A new form of playoff classification was voted into rule by a democratic majority. NOTHING TO FIX Yes, Bonine made his bed. He now must lay in it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 9:38:58 GMT -6
Bonine really screwed the privates when he decided he would declare the split dead. Really pissed off the public principals. Forced them into a hardline stance. Privates thought they had really stuck it to the publics. I seriously doubt there will be much compromise after that move. Where do you get the privates thought they had really stuck it to the publics? Anyone with half a brain knew they would go back into executive session and correct there oversight. Its so funny how so many people think the privates are trying to stick it to the publics. The privates were voted off to their own playoffs. They are the minority. Public school supporters are constantly defending the principals. Over and over its been repeated on here how these are well educated people, that have nothing but the best interest of the kids at heart. But yet with all these well educated people, all they could come up with was a split. It tells me that they have no interest in really trying to fix things and they should let someone else (like the athletic directors) handle it. Bonine must not have half a brain then, because he sure as hell wouldn't have come out and proclaimed the split was dead if he thought it would have just been corrected overnight. He and his private buddies thought they had figured out a way to stick it to the publics.
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Post by Truthman on Apr 7, 2016 9:50:06 GMT -6
Where do you get the privates thought they had really stuck it to the publics? Anyone with half a brain knew they would go back into executive session and correct there oversight. Its so funny how so many people think the privates are trying to stick it to the publics. The privates were voted off to their own playoffs. They are the minority. Public school supporters are constantly defending the principals. Over and over its been repeated on here how these are well educated people, that have nothing but the best interest of the kids at heart. But yet with all these well educated people, all they could come up with was a split. It tells me that they have no interest in really trying to fix things and they should let someone else (like the athletic directors) handle it. Bonine must not have half a brain then, because he sure as hell wouldn't have come out and proclaimed the split was dead if he thought it would have just been corrected overnight. He and his private buddies thought they had figured out a way to stick it to the publics. Bonine is used to strong arming his way around. Blew up in his face here. He will never recover and he knows it.
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Post by Truthman on Apr 7, 2016 9:52:39 GMT -6
Bonines only option at this point is to broker a deal between the LHSAA and the State Legislature in order to amputate schools and principals from the voting process by legislative action. His long term hope is to be "appointed" as the leader of a newly formed commission ran the the state to oversee high school extra curricular activities.
His problem is, everyone knows this. That, and the fact, he has made his bed amongst snakes. When they are done using him, he will also be bitten.
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Post by Raven on Apr 7, 2016 9:59:59 GMT -6
Where do you get the privates thought they had really stuck it to the publics? Anyone with half a brain knew they would go back into executive session and correct there oversight. Its so funny how so many people think the privates are trying to stick it to the publics. The privates were voted off to their own playoffs. They are the minority. Public school supporters are constantly defending the principals. Over and over its been repeated on here how these are well educated people, that have nothing but the best interest of the kids at heart. But yet with all these well educated people, all they could come up with was a split. It tells me that they have no interest in really trying to fix things and they should let someone else (like the athletic directors) handle it. There is nothing to "fix". Nothing is broken. A new form of playoff classification was voted into rule by a democratic majority. NOTHING TO FIX Yes, Bonine made his bed. He now must lay in it. The majority thought there was nothing wrong with segregation at one time too, didn't they? That didn't make it right. That's all the split is. A form a segregation against (mostly) christian, faith-based schools.
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