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Post by unbiasedobserver on May 14, 2019 14:26:11 GMT -6
i like how you talked about Curtis and "culture" when EJ finally got a coach who built a program up, after one championship run, they couldn't keep him, and now EJ is back to being EJ again Coaching (and usually going hand in hand), culture, off season programs, etc., have as much to do with wins and losses as talent does in a lot of cases. And that’s the case in public AND private schools.
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Post by wshs on May 14, 2019 15:16:47 GMT -6
ray failed civics
2/3 vote is required to over turn a veto
you didn't get 2/3rds vote nice try on overwhelming majority
i bet you wanna eliminate the electoral college too First--the phrase "overwhelming majority" isn't the same thing as 2/3's vote. Its just a term people use. Its a matter of opinion on what constitutes an overwhelming majority to someone. That being said, the vote was actually pretty close to 2/3 in favor of splitting.
Second--when you increase the font size of your text it doesn't make it any easier to read. I'm not trying to be the grammar police or anything, but d***. I feel fortunate my parents sent me to a public school. Its just one never ending sentence with you. No, it cant be a sentence either. Its just a discombobulated smattering of words. No, wait.... hell, its just a bunch of letters. I will give you that. You do know the a, b, c's.
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Post by wshs on May 14, 2019 15:46:03 GMT -6
This is really tough to read. Next time at least attempt some punctuation. You really just seem upset that Public schools are now doing what privates have always done. It affects your school now, so you have faux outrage.this is where
and i'm not even sure what to put you seem to skate around what you don't wanna believe and can't support
i point out actually neville kids you want hard proof you infer on evangel and curtis kids
double standard much
neville and west monroe have skirted around more rules than curtis and evangel admit it
many and winnfield wanted to push an agenda and still don't win
those two are to blame for split as much as evangel and curtis
many and winnfield wanted to push an agenda and still don't win---- And that's ok. That's what you and everybody else anti-split cant come to terms with. These two schools didn't push for the split only to level the playing field for there two schools. They pushed for all of the public schools in the system that were required to play by the rules while others weren't. Knowing you have a legitimate shot and a level playing field when the season starts is a "WIN". those two are to blame for split as much as evangel and Curtis ---So by your own admission Evangel, Curtis and others break the rules? They pull their team from 100,000 plus kids and play in a classification against public school teams building their teams out of the 180 kids they have available in the parish. And when two schools finally have enough and propose the split-- it gets tabled, propose again-- it gets tabled, then finally pass it its their fault? Where were you the years before the split? Where were all these private schools doing things the right way? Where were you then, to force teams like Curtis and Evangels hands-- to tell them to quit what they were doing? We both know the answer to that. You were standing right there behind them saying "don't worry about it, it will never pass". " Don't worry about it, we got the big money boosters and politicians on our side"
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Post by Raven on May 14, 2019 16:30:11 GMT -6
Where were you the years before the split? Where were all these private schools doing things the right way? Where were you then, to force teams like Curtis and Evangels hands-- to tell them to quit what they were doing? We both know the answer to that. You were standing right there behind them saying "don't worry about it, it will never pass". " Don't worry about it, we got the big money boosters and politicians on our side" Now its a private school conspiracy that led to ECA and Curtis winning multiple championships? What farcical world do you live in? The other private schools were competing against them just like the public schools were. What makes you think any other school (public or private) was on their side, encouraging them? The real culprit behind the split was the 4A and 5A public schools. 1A-3A schools didn't have a problem competing against and beating private schools on a regular basis until the "play in class" rule was implemented in 2005. That pushed ECA into 1A and Curtis into 2A. Within a couple of years ECA was back in 2A as well and that's when it really hit the fan. No public school could make it past the semifinals because it was basically ECA and JC in the finals every year. We'll call 2011 an anomaly since JC and ECA were on the same side of the bracket. Nevermind that none of the other private schools in 2A could compete with them either. Let's just throw them under the bus along with every other private school in the state so we don't have to play ECA or JC anymore. Winnfield and Many may not have been responsible for the animosity behind the split, but they were the ones who pushed for a resolution that took the easy way out without considering that what may have been best for their schools was not necessarily what was best for the LHSAA. No other ideas were even seriously considered and the ones that got any attention at all were all put on the same ballot in the same vote which spread out the votes so much that none of them even had a chance.
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Post by indy on May 14, 2019 18:57:27 GMT -6
This is what i see from certain schools. They have an inability to accept blame for their actions or inactions. When kids don't show up for summer workouts that's not the private schools fault. I agree it's about culture. Some schools have a good coach and can create a culture of success and stick around and build some don't stay. Again it's not the privates schools fault if a good coach doesn't stay at a public school the same way it's not a public's schools fault if the private school can't get a good coach. One more analogy guys supposedly travel baseball is what you have to do to get a baseball scholarship but only about 12% of high school baseball players play in college while around 85% of high school kids play travel ball. Something doesn't add up.
Not all private schools are willing to do what it takes to win and i don't mean recruit i mean hire a coach allow athletic pe allow the coach enough assistants have kids that are willing to work. It's the same thing with the public schools. Acadiana wins because the principal supports the coaches and the community supports the team. The other public schools in lafayette don't have the system in place. Obviously it helps that they don't have to follow attendance zones but those kids wouldn't be as good outside of the system created at Acadiana.
John Curtis and Evangel rose to prominence in a large metro area with several talented players in the area could those coaches win at another school yes they could
Many high school is the only football high school in all of Sabine Parish they enjoy an advantage over ever single private school in the state they compete with no one for kids
Situations like that show that a level playing field can't exist because some publics aren't the only parish school some are.
So Many could have capitalized on their advantage but they would rather and blame private schools for not winning. What's the excuse for not winning in split era?
gonna rob kids of games due to split and still can't win i didn't think people got into education or coaching to cheat kids
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Post by iamray on May 14, 2019 19:28:54 GMT -6
Yes, but every participating school got the same vote. No one was excluded or denied the right to vote. Yet, even had every single eligible black voter voted against them, there still would not have been enough votes to overturn the old Jim Crow laws. There simply weren't enough of them. In that respect, the two issues run parallel. Now I think we would both agree the split is a joke, but I think it's a bit hyperbolic to say the LHSAA utilizes religious discrimination against private schools. You are correct, but it's hyperbole to make a point. I realize that the struggle for equality for an entire race of Americans is orders of magnitude greater in importance than who gets to compete against each other in a Louisiana high school playoff game. That's not the point of my comparison. It was merely to illustrate that there are instances where just because a plurality of voters decides that an issue should be a certain way does not automatically make it the correct or the right or the just decision.
It is good to see that many public school supporters are also against the split in its current form. Even the ones that still think private schools have an advantage.
If any future proposals come out to get the private and public schools back together it will be necessary for it to get its start and gain its initial traction on the public side. Any proposal introduced by a private school for this purpose will immediately be attacked and picked apart and amended to the point where it will be nearly useless and then no one will want to vote for it. Similar to what happened with the rural/metro proposal. Even coming from one of the most well-respected coaches in the state (by both sides) it was still destined for the dust bin after being ripped apart with changes.
There will always be some public school principals who will be against any form of reuniting. We can't do anything to change those minds. But the ones who are willing to listen, willing to have the discussion, willing to stand their ground against the loudest and angriest "never togethers", those are the ones who will need to be the backbone behind any kind of push to reunite the two sides.
Well said. I'd much rather settle it all on the field. But I also understand why publics started complaining. Unfortunately, I don't see the two sides ever coming together. I'd love to see it happen. Five classes, settle it all on the field.
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Post by iamray on May 14, 2019 19:36:45 GMT -6
Where were you the years before the split? Where were all these private schools doing things the right way? Where were you then, to force teams like Curtis and Evangels hands-- to tell them to quit what they were doing? We both know the answer to that. You were standing right there behind them saying "don't worry about it, it will never pass". " Don't worry about it, we got the big money boosters and politicians on our side" Now its a private school conspiracy that led to ECA and Curtis winning multiple championships? What farcical world do you live in? The other private schools were competing against them just like the public schools were. What makes you think any other school (public or private) was on their side, encouraging them? The real culprit behind the split was the 4A and 5A public schools. 1A-3A schools didn't have a problem competing against and beating private schools on a regular basis until the "play in class" rule was implemented in 2005. That pushed ECA into 1A and Curtis into 2A. Within a couple of years ECA was back in 2A as well and that's when it really hit the fan. No public school could make it past the semifinals because it was basically ECA and JC in the finals every year. We'll call 2011 an anomaly since JC and ECA were on the same side of the bracket. Nevermind that none of the other private schools in 2A could compete with them either. Let's just throw them under the bus along with every other private school in the state so we don't have to play ECA or JC anymore. Winnfield and Many may not have been responsible for the animosity behind the split, but they were the ones who pushed for a resolution that took the easy way out without considering that what may have been best for their schools was not necessarily what was best for the LHSAA. No other ideas were even seriously considered and the ones that got any attention at all were all put on the same ballot in the same vote which spread out the votes so much that none of them even had a chance. "The real culprit behind the split was the 4A and 5A public schools." Can you see where the public schools are coming from? Curtis and Evangel could pull players from anywhere, sit them a year, and then have them eligible for varsity. Public schools couldn't do this. To quote Sixpack - someone who I've often disagreed with - the public schools didn't just "make up a fairytale" about Evangel and Curtis. They were absolutely abusing their privilege. If you don't think so then tell me why Huntington hasn't had the same - well, hell even half - the success that Evangel has had. Huntington has twice as many kids, is literally right around the corner and is free to attend. Yet, Evangel was able to win a national championship. It doesn't add up.
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Post by indy on May 14, 2019 20:49:23 GMT -6
Two questions
First Can anyone argue that Neville is by far one of the most successful teams in the state? no chance Ray how would you feel if the 4a public's voted them out? You speak of knowing you have a chance and it makes it better. I know that the 4a's in this area don't think they can get past the semifinals when they see Neville on their side of the Bracket. Hell a Neville team took down a Breaux Bridge team that had three lsu players and three other division 1 guys.
What public school has a chance to beat Karr and Neville?
Ray would you feel differently if your school was targeted for removal?
Second At some point wake up a quit buying the public schools follow zones line. In 1999 Winnfield had a sopre qb who was very talented. In 2000 and 2001 this kid ends up playing linebacker for WEST MONROE.
New Iberia has a new football coach. His goal is to keep kids in his zone. Currently he is loosing kids to Westgate and Loreauville. Crowley High would love to have their kids back who play for Iota while living in Crowley.
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Post by Sixpack on May 14, 2019 23:09:51 GMT -6
Two questions First Can anyone argue that Neville is by far one of the most successful teams in the state? no chance Ray how would you feel if the 4a public's voted them out? You speak of knowing you have a chance and it makes it better. I know that the 4a's in this area don't think they can get past the semifinals when they see Neville on their side of the Bracket. Hell a Neville team took down a Breaux Bridge team that had three lsu players and three other division 1 guys. What public school has a chance to beat Karr and Neville? Ray would you feel differently if your school was targeted for removal? Second At some point wake up a quit buying the public schools follow zones line. In 1999 Winnfield had a sopre qb who was very talented. In 2000 and 2001 this kid ends up playing linebacker for WEST MONROE. New Iberia has a new football coach. His goal is to keep kids in his zone. Currently he is loosing kids to Westgate and Loreauville. Crowley High would love to have their kids back who play for Iota while living in Crowley. Indy try to make sense. The things you post defeat your own argument. I am much older than you and in all my years I have never heard any public school complain about an unlevel playing field because they were being dominated in athletics by another public school. No public school has ever complained about consistently being defeated by Neville, West Monroe or Karr or any other public school because their was no reason to complain. Get it? Why would they complain? They were all playing UNDER THE SAME RULES. The debate has never been about success. The debate has been about the REASON for success. The LHSAA was allowing privates to play under different rules that gave them an unfair advantage over public schools in athletics, especially football, and the public schools didn't like it. It's just that simple. And you claiming to know about a public school that did what private schools were doing means absolutely nothing. In the first place all you do is make general claims with no evidence and in the second place even if you had evidence it wouldn't matter because for a public school to do what private schools were doing the public school would have to break LHSAA rules and risk getting caught and penalized while the private schools were free to do the same thing without breaking any LHSAA rule. Is that what you call fair? Really?
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Post by indy on May 15, 2019 7:07:08 GMT -6
Indy try to make sense.
The things you post defeat your own argument. I am much older than you and in all my years I have never heard any public school complain about an unlevel playing field because they were being dominated in athletics by another public school. No public school has ever complained about consistently being defeated by Neville, West Monroe or Karr or any other public school because their was no reason to complain. Get it? Why would they complain? They were all playing UNDER THE SAME RULES. The same rules, what? No chance Orleans Parish is open enrollment. Every student in Orleans parish can attend Edna Karr. That's a very different rule. That's why y'all complain about that the privates do.
The debate has never been about success. The debate has been about the REASON for success. The LHSAA was allowing privates to play under different rules that gave them an unfair advantage over public schools in athletics, especially football, and the public schools didn't like it. It's just that simple.
Some public schools are able to play under open enrollment parishes. Since y'all say i don't provide evidence or proof. Specific parishes would include Orleans Rapides. Some parishes such as Lafayette Parish have school of choice Acadiana High School won state with Micah Eugene and Bakari Hollier neither of which were zoned for Acadiana but there due to "business academy." Funny how neither one of their college majors had anything to do with business. Some parishes have only one football playing school such as Sabine so any kid who wants can play football for them. Some places have agreements from the LEA providing special provisions such as for years Kinder gets Elton kids since Elton doesn't have baseball Eunice gets Basile kids because they don't have baseball and Crowley got Midland kids since they don't have baseball. And you claiming to know about a public school that did what private schools were doing means absolutely nothing. In the first place all you do is make general claims with no evidence and in the second place even if you had evidence it wouldn't matter because for a public school to do what private schools were doing the public school would have to break LHSAA rules and risk getting caught and penalized while the private schools were free to do the same thing without breaking any LHSAA rule. Is that what you call fair? Really? The lhsaa by rule can't override local LEA decisions and can only investigate what's turned in. Kids who attend schools for M&M such as what Parkway does to Bossier Parish Barbe does to Calcasieu parish isn't breaking some lhsaa rule. Public schools have zones for population control the lhsaa didn't establish the zones.
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Post by indy on May 15, 2019 7:13:35 GMT -6
Here are two specific names and years for out of zone kids
Tayte Langley played for Iota this past season as a freshman sopre and junior he attended Eunice high school how could he possible play for Iota senior year answer is he lived in Iota the entire time
Bryce Gatte was the center fielder in 2018 for Rayne High while living in Crowley.
Does anyone on this board think it's right for me to post the names of freshman sopres or juniors attending the local public schools out of zone? I don't think that's right. This is a public forum. Those kids go out of zone as frosh to the public school sit a year then played varsity this year at a public school in Acadia Parish.
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Post by Raven on May 15, 2019 8:19:01 GMT -6
Now its a private school conspiracy that led to ECA and Curtis winning multiple championships? What farcical world do you live in? The other private schools were competing against them just like the public schools were. What makes you think any other school (public or private) was on their side, encouraging them? The real culprit behind the split was the 4A and 5A public schools. 1A-3A schools didn't have a problem competing against and beating private schools on a regular basis until the "play in class" rule was implemented in 2005. That pushed ECA into 1A and Curtis into 2A. Within a couple of years ECA was back in 2A as well and that's when it really hit the fan. No public school could make it past the semifinals because it was basically ECA and JC in the finals every year. We'll call 2011 an anomaly since JC and ECA were on the same side of the bracket. Nevermind that none of the other private schools in 2A could compete with them either. Let's just throw them under the bus along with every other private school in the state so we don't have to play ECA or JC anymore. Winnfield and Many may not have been responsible for the animosity behind the split, but they were the ones who pushed for a resolution that took the easy way out without considering that what may have been best for their schools was not necessarily what was best for the LHSAA. No other ideas were even seriously considered and the ones that got any attention at all were all put on the same ballot in the same vote which spread out the votes so much that none of them even had a chance. "The real culprit behind the split was the 4A and 5A public schools." Can you see where the public schools are coming from? Curtis and Evangel could pull players from anywhere, sit them a year, and then have them eligible for varsity. Public schools couldn't do this. To quote Sixpack - someone who I've often disagreed with - the public schools didn't just "make up a fairytale" about Evangel and Curtis. They were absolutely abusing their privilege. If you don't think so then tell me why Huntington hasn't had the same - well, hell even half - the success that Evangel has had. Huntington has twice as many kids, is literally right around the corner and is free to attend. Yet, Evangel was able to win a national championship. It doesn't add up. I can absolutely see where the public schools are coming from. It was obvious that ECA and JC have been dominant on the football field on a consistent basis for 30+ years. Much more consistently than any public school, but also more consistently than any other private school. With that in mind, we can infer that there was something in common with these two schools that was not available to any other school. What was that? If it was simply that they were private schools, then there would need to be other examples of private schools with similar stories of sustained success. Where are those private schools? You could say Ouachita Christian has been successful and they have been. In their classification. But could they have consistently played and beaten 4A or 5A public school playoff teams? Probably not. Notre Dame has a very successful program and they have beaten some higher classification schools in their area. But they have also lost to public schools in their area and from other areas in the state that were within their classification. Mostly when they were in the 3A ranks. I'm not sure if they have lost to a 2A public school since moving down. University could be seen as a successful program overall. They won a state title in the 70s, and I think 2 more in the 80s and in the last 3-4 years under Coach Mahaffey they have been nearly as good as ECA or Curtis. But they have not had that sustained success. Redemptorist in Baton Rouge was on track to become another powerful private school, but their success only really started under Coach Sid Edwards and after he left they had a few successful years, even won another title before eventually dropping in enrollment from 4A all the way back to 1A before closing their doors for good all within a 10 year span. Catholic of Baton Rouge has appeared to take up the banner of another private school power, but only since the split. While they have been able to beat Zachary and other public schools from the Baton Rouge area, they still (to my knowledge) have never been able to beat West Monroe. So while they have consistently had winning seasons, they have not shown themselves to be consistently dominant over their public school counterparts over sustained periods of time. So we have to ask ourselves, what is different about ECA and JC that is not only different from the public schools, but also different from all the other private schools as well? Obviously it's not something that is shared by all private schools, or there would be more private schools with a sustained record of success in athletics. And while we have some examples of other private schools that are successful most of the time, and some that have intermittent spurts of dominance, that is really no different than the successful public school programs from around the state. In my opinion there are 4 things that ECA and JC share that other schools just cannot match. And by other schools I mean both public and private. Some traits are shared by other schools, but I don't think any other school has all 4. 1. They are both located in large metropolitan areas. Sure there are other schools both public and private that are located in and around New Orleans and Shreveport. And with parish-wide boundaries they can enroll students from outside of their traditional zones. Much like JC and ECA. But they are lacking at least one of the other three traits. 2. They run a consistent system. From their elementary teams through to the high school level all of their teams run the same system using the same terminology and playing with the same teammates for all of those years. By the time they reach the high school level, coaches don't need to spend time teaching them offensive and defensive alignments since they've known them for 5 years or more already. They concentrate their practice time on individual player development and improvement. 3. Fundraising. This is probably the biggest difference between these 2 schools and other private schools. Both schools have tremendous financial support and are very successful in finding ways to increase their athletic revenue streams. No other 2A or 3A private school can match the kind of athletic budget that ECA and JC have. That allows extra money for better facilities and better pay to attract better coaches. 4. Administrations that put a priority toward athletics. By this I don't mean to suggest that they lack academically or that they don't care about the academic side, but rather that they put a greater emphasis on athletic success and give their athletic departments the support that they need in order to continue to be successful. Obviously there are other schools that do this as well, but they lack one or more of the other components that are necessary to have that sustained success at the 5A level. For Curtis I would have to add a 5th advantage in that they have had the same head coach for at least as long as I have been alive. That is nearly unheard of in today's world of high school football. For those reasons, and maybe more that I haven't thought of, ECA and JC have been able to sustain success at a level that is above what their traditional enrollment size would seem to suggest. No other school (public or private) with a 1A-3A enrollment would be able to have that level success without having all 4 of the listed requirements.
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Post by benella2254 on May 15, 2019 8:25:01 GMT -6
Six,,, I agree to disagree,,, back when Evangel was rolling and I was there from 02-09. The games vs West Monroe, Rummel, and other top flight 5A schools were some of the most exciting games I ever have been part of,,, except for 02 all games were very competitive,,,, If it had been left alone,,, some great games through the years would have been played. Put JC in 5A and even better games,,,, those two schools because they had athletes that could compete is why the split happened,,,I hate every school needs a trophy mentality,,, It is happening all over America and I can't stand it. The best solution was not to split but to require JC, Evangel and any other powerhouse private program to play in the higher classifications. Evangel was always willing to do that. But instead of allowing Evangel to stay in the highest classification the LHSSAA first tried to solve the problem by forcing Evangel to play down to their true enrollment classification and that was one of the craziest things I have ever seen. That did nothing but allow Evangel to score on some teams almost every time they ran a play. Some solution.This sounds familiar. I believe I said this on this same thread several weeks ago.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on May 15, 2019 8:25:30 GMT -6
This is really tough to read. Next time at least attempt some punctuation. You really just seem upset that Public schools are now doing what privates have always done. It affects your school now, so you have faux outrage.this is where
and i'm not even sure what to put you seem to skate around what you don't wanna believe and can't support
i point out actually neville kids you want hard proof you infer on evangel and curtis kids
double standard much
neville and west monroe have skirted around more rules than curtis and evangel admit it
many and winnfield wanted to push an agenda and still don't win
those two are to blame for split as much as evangel and curtis
many and winnfield wanted to push an agenda and still don't win---- And that's ok. That's what you and everybody else anti-split cant come to terms with. These two schools didn't push for the split only to level the playing field for there two schools. They pushed for all of the public schools in the system that were required to play by the rules while others weren't. Knowing you have a legitimate shot and a level playing field when the season starts is a "WIN". those two are to blame for split as much as evangel and Curtis ---So by your own admission Evangel, Curtis and others break the rules? They pull their team from 100,000 plus kids and play in a classification against public school teams building their teams out of the 180 kids they have available in the parish. And when two schools finally have enough and propose the split-- it gets tabled, propose again-- it gets tabled, then finally pass it its their fault? Where were you the years before the split? Where were all these private schools doing things the right way? Where were you then, to force teams like Curtis and Evangels hands-- to tell them to quit what they were doing? We both know the answer to that. You were standing right there behind them saying "don't worry about it, it will never pass". " Don't worry about it, we got the big money boosters and politicians on our side" They pull their team from 100,000 plus kids and play in a classification against public school teams building their teams out of the 180 kids they have available in the parish. This is where the rural/metro plan would have worked better in my opinion. It wasn't available the year that the split came into being but when it was proposed it was ripped because it came from a private school coach. I would prefer the Indiana Plan over any split, but if the schools have to be split the rural/metro would work the best, IMO.
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Post by indy on May 15, 2019 8:31:14 GMT -6
"The real culprit behind the split was the 4A and 5A public schools." Can you see where the public schools are coming from? Curtis and Evangel could pull players from anywhere, sit them a year, and then have them eligible for varsity. Public schools couldn't do this. To quote Sixpack - someone who I've often disagreed with - the public schools didn't just "make up a fairytale" about Evangel and Curtis. They were absolutely abusing their privilege. If you don't think so then tell me why Huntington hasn't had the same - well, hell even half - the success that Evangel has had. Huntington has twice as many kids, is literally right around the corner and is free to attend. Yet, Evangel was able to win a national championship. It doesn't add up. I can absolutely see where the public schools are coming from. It was obvious that ECA and JC have been dominant on the football field on a consistent basis for 30+ years. Much more consistently than any public school, but also more consistently than any other private school. With that in mind, we can infer that there was something in common with these two schools that was not available to any other school. What was that? If it was simply that they were private schools, then there would need to be other examples of private schools with similar stories of sustained success. Where are those private schools? You could say Ouachita Christian has been successful and they have been. In their classification. But could they have consistently played and beaten 4A or 5A public school playoff teams? Probably not. Notre Dame has a very successful program and they have beaten some higher classification schools in their area. But they have also lost to public schools in their area and from other areas in the state that were within their classification. Mostly when they were in the 3A ranks. I'm not sure if they have lost to a 2A public school since moving down. University could be seen as a successful program overall. They won a state title in the 70s, and I think 2 more in the 80s and in the last 3-4 years under Coach Mahaffey they have been nearly as good as ECA or Curtis. But they have not had that sustained success. Redemptorist in Baton Rouge was on track to become another powerful private school, but their success only really started under Coach Sid Edwards and after he left they had a few successful years, even won another title before eventually dropping in enrollment from 4A all the way back to 1A before closing their doors for good all within a 10 year span. Catholic of Baton Rouge has appeared to take up the banner of another private school power, but only since the split. While they have been able to beat Zachary and other public schools from the Baton Rouge area, they still (to my knowledge) have never been able to beat West Monroe. So while they have consistently had winning seasons, they have not shown themselves to be consistently dominant over their public school counterparts over sustained periods of time. So we have to ask ourselves, what is different about ECA and JC that is not only different from the public schools, but also different from all the other private schools as well? Obviously it's not something that is shared by all private schools, or there would be more private schools with a sustained record of success in athletics. And while we have some examples of other private schools that are successful most of the time, and some that have intermittent spurts of dominance, that is really no different than the successful public school programs from around the state. In my opinion there are 4 things that ECA and JC share that other schools just cannot match. And by other schools I mean both public and private. Some traits are shared by other schools, but I don't think any other school has all 4. 1. They are both located in large metropolitan areas. Sure there are other schools both public and private that are located in and around New Orleans and Shreveport. And with parish-wide boundaries they can enroll students from outside of their traditional zones. Much like JC and ECA. But they are lacking at least one of the other three traits. 2. They run a consistent system. From their elementary teams through to the high school level all of their teams run the same system using the same terminology and playing with the same teammates for all of those years. By the time they reach the high school level, coaches don't need to spend time teaching them offensive and defensive alignments since they've known them for 5 years or more already. They concentrate their practice time on individual player development and improvement. 3. Fundraising. This is probably the biggest difference between these 2 schools and other private schools. Both schools have tremendous financial support and are very successful in finding ways to increase their athletic revenue streams. No other 2A or 3A private school can match the kind of athletic budget that ECA and JC have. That allows extra money for better facilities and better pay to attract better coaches. 4. Administrations that put a priority toward athletics. By this I don't mean to suggest that they lack academically or that they don't care about the academic side, but rather that they put a greater emphasis on athletic success and give their athletic departments the support that they need in order to continue to be successful. Obviously there are other schools that do this as well, but they lack one or more of the other components that are necessary to have that sustained success at the 5A level. For Curtis I would have to add a 5th advantage in that they have had the same head coach for at least as long as I have been alive. That is nearly unheard of in today's world of high school football. For those reasons, and maybe more that I haven't thought of, ECA and JC have been able to sustain success at a level that is above what their traditional enrollment size would seem to suggest. No other school (public or private) with a 1A-3A enrollment would be able to have that level success without having all 4 of the listed requirements. You can add to that and maybe the most important, they are family owned businesses. They answer to no one.
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Post by wildcat on May 15, 2019 8:36:07 GMT -6
Here are two specific names and years for out of zone kids Tayte Langley played for Iota this past season as a freshman sopre and junior he attended Eunice high school how could he possible play for Iota senior year answer is he lived in Iota the entire time Bryce Gatte was the center fielder in 2018 for Rayne High while living in Crowley. Does anyone on this board think it's right for me to post the names of freshman sopres or juniors attending the local public schools out of zone? I don't think that's right. This is a public forum. Those kids go out of zone as frosh to the public school sit a year then played varsity this year at a public school in Acadia Parish. Cisco Perkins and Robert Davis from Logansport to Evangel after winning state Tyler Shelvin - All American who transfers to ND for his senior season So whats your point, it happens at both public and private. Every school recruits and we could throw around names of kids who move from school to school all day. I know of kids who are bused right past a B+ public school public school who excels at sports to attend a private school in another parish 35 miles away. This private school has a bus pick up right down the road from the public school and crosses parish lines with the kids. There have been kids from Texas cross state lines to attend Evangel.
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Post by indy on May 15, 2019 12:26:13 GMT -6
Reasons why level playing field doesn't exist
Some public schools are able to play under open enrollment parishes. Since y'all say i don't provide evidence or proof. Specific parishes would include Orleans Rapides. Some parishes such as Lafayette Parish have school of choice Acadiana High School won state with Micah Eugene and Bakari Hollier neither of which were zoned for Acadiana but there due to "business academy." Funny how neither one of their college majors had anything to do with business. Some parishes have only one football playing school such as Sabine so any kid who wants can play football for them. Some places have agreements from the LEA providing special provisions such as for years Kinder gets Elton kids since Elton doesn't have baseball Eunice gets Basile kids because they don't have baseball and Crowley got Midland kids since they don't have baseball.
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Post by iamray on May 16, 2019 6:58:24 GMT -6
Here are two specific names and years for out of zone kids Tayte Langley played for Iota this past season as a freshman sopre and junior he attended Eunice high school how could he possible play for Iota senior year answer is he lived in Iota the entire time Bryce Gatte was the center fielder in 2018 for Rayne High while living in Crowley. Does anyone on this board think it's right for me to post the names of freshman sopres or juniors attending the local public schools out of zone? I don't think that's right. This is a public forum. Those kids go out of zone as frosh to the public school sit a year then played varsity this year at a public school in Acadia Parish. Didn't Tyler Shelvin do the exact same thing to go to...Notre Dame??
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Post by iamray on May 16, 2019 7:05:32 GMT -6
Reasons why level playing field doesn't exist Some public schools are able to play under open enrollment parishes. Since y'all say i don't provide evidence or proof. Specific parishes would include Orleans Rapides. Some parishes such as Lafayette Parish have school of choice Acadiana High School won state with Micah Eugene and Bakari Hollier neither of which were zoned for Acadiana but there due to "business academy." Funny how neither one of their college majors had anything to do with business. Some parishes have only one football playing school such as Sabine so any kid who wants can play football for them. Some places have agreements from the LEA providing special provisions such as for years Kinder gets Elton kids since Elton doesn't have baseball Eunice gets Basile kids because they don't have baseball and Crowley got Midland kids since they don't have baseball. "Some public schools are able to play under open enrollment parishes. Since y'all say i don't provide evidence or proof. Specific parishes would include Orleans Rapides. Some parishes such as Lafayette Parish have school of choice" You listed 3 out of 64 parishes. Hardly convincing. The playing field is becoming more convoluted by the day. But when Evangel and JC started making their push, they were playing by a different set of rules which gave them an unfair advantage of public schools. How can you deny this?
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Post by iamray on May 16, 2019 7:06:16 GMT -6
Here are two specific names and years for out of zone kids Tayte Langley played for Iota this past season as a freshman sopre and junior he attended Eunice high school how could he possible play for Iota senior year answer is he lived in Iota the entire time Bryce Gatte was the center fielder in 2018 for Rayne High while living in Crowley. Does anyone on this board think it's right for me to post the names of freshman sopres or juniors attending the local public schools out of zone? I don't think that's right. This is a public forum. Those kids go out of zone as frosh to the public school sit a year then played varsity this year at a public school in Acadia Parish. Cisco Perkins and Robert Davis from Logansport to Evangel after winning state Tyler Shelvin - All American who transfers to ND for his senior season So whats your point, it happens at both public and private. Every school recruits and we could throw around names of kids who move from school to school all day. I know of kids who are bused right past a B+ public school public school who excels at sports to attend a private school in another parish 35 miles away. This private school has a bus pick up right down the road from the public school and crosses parish lines with the kids. There have been kids from Texas cross state lines to attend Evangel. Tyler Shelvin - All American who transfers to ND for his senior season Beat me to it.
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Post by iamray on May 16, 2019 7:22:57 GMT -6
"The real culprit behind the split was the 4A and 5A public schools." Can you see where the public schools are coming from? Curtis and Evangel could pull players from anywhere, sit them a year, and then have them eligible for varsity. Public schools couldn't do this. To quote Sixpack - someone who I've often disagreed with - the public schools didn't just "make up a fairytale" about Evangel and Curtis. They were absolutely abusing their privilege. If you don't think so then tell me why Huntington hasn't had the same - well, hell even half - the success that Evangel has had. Huntington has twice as many kids, is literally right around the corner and is free to attend. Yet, Evangel was able to win a national championship. It doesn't add up. I can absolutely see where the public schools are coming from. It was obvious that ECA and JC have been dominant on the football field on a consistent basis for 30+ years. Much more consistently than any public school, but also more consistently than any other private school. With that in mind, we can infer that there was something in common with these two schools that was not available to any other school. What was that? If it was simply that they were private schools, then there would need to be other examples of private schools with similar stories of sustained success. Where are those private schools? You could say Ouachita Christian has been successful and they have been. In their classification. But could they have consistently played and beaten 4A or 5A public school playoff teams? Probably not. Notre Dame has a very successful program and they have beaten some higher classification schools in their area. But they have also lost to public schools in their area and from other areas in the state that were within their classification. Mostly when they were in the 3A ranks. I'm not sure if they have lost to a 2A public school since moving down. University could be seen as a successful program overall. They won a state title in the 70s, and I think 2 more in the 80s and in the last 3-4 years under Coach Mahaffey they have been nearly as good as ECA or Curtis. But they have not had that sustained success. Redemptorist in Baton Rouge was on track to become another powerful private school, but their success only really started under Coach Sid Edwards and after he left they had a few successful years, even won another title before eventually dropping in enrollment from 4A all the way back to 1A before closing their doors for good all within a 10 year span. Catholic of Baton Rouge has appeared to take up the banner of another private school power, but only since the split. While they have been able to beat Zachary and other public schools from the Baton Rouge area, they still (to my knowledge) have never been able to beat West Monroe. So while they have consistently had winning seasons, they have not shown themselves to be consistently dominant over their public school counterparts over sustained periods of time. So we have to ask ourselves, what is different about ECA and JC that is not only different from the public schools, but also different from all the other private schools as well? Obviously it's not something that is shared by all private schools, or there would be more private schools with a sustained record of success in athletics. And while we have some examples of other private schools that are successful most of the time, and some that have intermittent spurts of dominance, that is really no different than the successful public school programs from around the state. In my opinion there are 4 things that ECA and JC share that other schools just cannot match. And by other schools I mean both public and private. Some traits are shared by other schools, but I don't think any other school has all 4. 1. They are both located in large metropolitan areas. Sure there are other schools both public and private that are located in and around New Orleans and Shreveport. And with parish-wide boundaries they can enroll students from outside of their traditional zones. Much like JC and ECA. But they are lacking at least one of the other three traits. 2. They run a consistent system. From their elementary teams through to the high school level all of their teams run the same system using the same terminology and playing with the same teammates for all of those years. By the time they reach the high school level, coaches don't need to spend time teaching them offensive and defensive alignments since they've known them for 5 years or more already. They concentrate their practice time on individual player development and improvement. 3. Fundraising. This is probably the biggest difference between these 2 schools and other private schools. Both schools have tremendous financial support and are very successful in finding ways to increase their athletic revenue streams. No other 2A or 3A private school can match the kind of athletic budget that ECA and JC have. That allows extra money for better facilities and better pay to attract better coaches. 4. Administrations that put a priority toward athletics. By this I don't mean to suggest that they lack academically or that they don't care about the academic side, but rather that they put a greater emphasis on athletic success and give their athletic departments the support that they need in order to continue to be successful. Obviously there are other schools that do this as well, but they lack one or more of the other components that are necessary to have that sustained success at the 5A level. For Curtis I would have to add a 5th advantage in that they have had the same head coach for at least as long as I have been alive. That is nearly unheard of in today's world of high school football. For those reasons, and maybe more that I haven't thought of, ECA and JC have been able to sustain success at a level that is above what their traditional enrollment size would seem to suggest. No other school (public or private) with a 1A-3A enrollment would be able to have that level success without having all 4 of the listed requirements. Wonderful info. I agree to an extent. To piggyback on your thesis, I'd like to extend what I believe separated JC and Evangel from other privates. You are exactly right. Those two HAVE to have something different otherwise we would have seen similar success in other private schools. Here is what I believe both of those schools have - or didn't have - which made them the juggernauts they are. I believe John Curtis and Evangel, both being private schools who played under a different set of rules - became so successful because neither of them are located in an area where a traditional PUBLIC powerhouse resides. This would explain why OCS, while being successful in their own class, likely would not have seen the same success against 4A and 5A competition. They reside in the same parish as West Monroe and Neville, both traditional powers. A John Curtis or Evangel would not have worked in the Monroe area due to this. John Curtis IS the traditional power in NOLA. Evangle IS the traditional power in Shreveport.
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Post by indy on May 16, 2019 7:45:32 GMT -6
Here are two specific names and years for out of zone kids Tayte Langley played for Iota this past season as a freshman sopre and junior he attended Eunice high school how could he possible play for Iota senior year answer is he lived in Iota the entire time Bryce Gatte was the center fielder in 2018 for Rayne High while living in Crowley. Does anyone on this board think it's right for me to post the names of freshman sopres or juniors attending the local public schools out of zone? I don't think that's right. This is a public forum. Those kids go out of zone as frosh to the public school sit a year then played varsity this year at a public school in Acadia Parish. Didn't Tyler Shelvin do the exact same thing to go to...Notre Dame?? Yes. it was approved by a LHSAA controlled by self serving principals.
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Post by iamray on May 16, 2019 8:17:10 GMT -6
Didn't Tyler Shelvin do the exact same thing to go to...Notre Dame?? Yes. it was approved by a LHSAA controlled by self serving principals. So when it benefits your school, you have no problem with those s? When the transfer happened, why weren't you screaming at the decision those "" principals made to allow an All-American to play for your school?
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Post by indy on May 16, 2019 8:33:32 GMT -6
Yes. it was approved by a LHSAA controlled by self serving principals. So when it benefits your school, you have no problem with those s? When the transfer happened, why weren't you screaming at the decision those "" principals made to allow an All-American to play for your school? I never said I was for it. The vast majority of transfers are from private to public or public to public. Northside a few years ago was a large 4A school, now a small 3A school. Obviously Tyler wasn’t the only one that fled the situation. ND made the finals 3 out of 4 years while in D3. Tyler played the one year we didn’t make it. And Tyler was zoned for Lafayette High but went to Northside to play for Trev Faulk.
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Post by Raven on May 16, 2019 12:37:09 GMT -6
Wonderful info. I agree to an extent. To piggyback on your thesis, I'd like to extend what I believe separated JC and Evangel from other privates. You are exactly right. Those two HAVE to have something different otherwise we would have seen similar success in other private schools. Here is what I believe both of those schools have - or didn't have - which made them the juggernauts they are. I believe John Curtis and Evangel, both being private schools who played under a different set of rules - became so successful because neither of them are located in an area where a traditional PUBLIC powerhouse resides. This would explain why OCS, while being successful in their own class, likely would not have seen the same success against 4A and 5A competition. They reside in the same parish as West Monroe and Neville, both traditional powers. A John Curtis or Evangel would not have worked in the Monroe area due to this. John Curtis IS the traditional power in NOLA. Evangle IS the traditional power in Shreveport. You definitely have a point about the lack of a traditional public school power in Northwest Louisiana. At least in terms of championships. I know Byrd has a few (going back a few decades) and Airline and Woodlawn(SH) each have one. But it could depend on the way you define a traditional power. if it's strictly championships, then yes, you are absolutely correct. But if you're talking wins/losses or playoff appearances, then things bet a little more blurry. After checking out 14-0 Productions (Ray has done a wonderful job creating such a fantastic resource - still in awe of 64 's dedication) if we go by the number of times a school has made the playoffs there are still only a few in Northwest LA that could be considered powers. In 4A and 5A (I'm using today's classifications since I don't know what class they were in throughout each school's history) Bossier (36), Byrd (36 times), Haughton (35), Minden (34), Woodlawn (31) and Airline (30) have all made at least 30 playoff appearances. Granted, Byrd has been around since forever, so they've had a longer time to get in that many playoff appearances. In the smaller classes, Loyola (37) and Plain Dealing (32) have also had their fair share of success reaching the playoffs, but only 2 championships to show for it, both by Loyola back when they were they still known as Jesuit of Shreveport. The flip side of that is Northwest LA, which has probably the strongest tradition of successful public school football programs of any area in the state. Neville (55) leads both that area and the state overall in playoff appearances followed by Ruston (49), Ouachita (36) Wossman (35) and Bastrop (31). I set the benchmark at 30 and West Monroe just missed the cut with 29 appearances, but since they have a number of state titles they definitely deserve to be in that group. Even small schools in that area have had success. Oak Grove (44), Mangham (42) and Rayville (38) lead the way along with Jonesboro-Hodge, although I wasn't sure if I should include them with the Northwest schools or if they were closer to the CENLA schools. Ouachita Christian (32) and Lincoln Prep (30) round out the list of schools with 30 or more playoff appearances. So yes, I can see how it would be difficult for a private school to pull students away from these traditional powers when trying to build a program. Other areas in the state somewhat support your idea. Southwest LA also has over 20 schools with 30+ playoff appearances, even though some of them are also private schools, that could explain why none of them have developed into teams that consistently win championships. I'm including schools from the Lafayette, Lake Charles and Opelousas areas as part of teh Southwest region, so that covers a larger geographical area than most others. The Baton Rouge area has only 6 teams with 30+ playoff appearances, but only 3 of them are in East Baton Rouge Parish; Istrouma (35) who hasn't been considered a state power since the early 60s, Catholic High (35) and Baker (32). 2 of the others are in Iberville Parish: Plaquemine (35) and White Castle (32) but with only championship between them I don't think they would count as state powers. Theoretically, with the population of Baton Rouge and the surrounding area, it should not be difficult for a small private school like say Dunham or Episcopal, who both have a similar enrollment size to ECA and JC, to develop into a football powerhouse. Dunham has one championship from 2004 I believe, but I don't think Episcopal has ever won a football title. So there is something else holding back private schools in the BR area. Catholic obviously has had success, but their enrollment is in line with the other top 10 schools in enrollment size around the state, so their success at the 5A level should not be considered out of the ordinary. Central Louisiana is real puzzle. It covers a wide geographic area as well, but only has a few schools of note. Benton (31) is the only large school with a significant number of playoff appearances. In the smaller classes, Bunkie (36), Sicily Island (30) and Many (30) have been the only public schools with a continuing tradition of success. On the private side, Holy Savior Menard (32) has a number of playoff appearances and is located in the biggest city in that area. And as the only private school with a football team between the Mississippi border and St. Mary's in Natchitoches, they should be tearing it up on the gridiron. but they have also never won a championship. The New Orleans area is interesting. While Curtis would definitely have to be considered the top dog right now, many of their championships were won while they were still 2A and later in 4A (and then again in 2A during the play-in-class years). They consistently compete with and are able to win against the 5A Catholic League teams as well as the resurgent Warren Easton and Edna Karr. NOLA also has so many schools, public and private, not only in Orleans Parish, but also Jefferson, St. Bernard, St. Charles, St. Tammany and Plaquemines. Both Warren Easton (35) and West Jefferson (38) have a number of playoff appearances in the state's largest classification, as do John Ehret (32) and Destrehan (38). On the private side Jesuit (46) leads the way with Curtis (45) giving chase. Archbishop Shaw (35) and Holy Cross (34) have also seen much success. In the smaller classes both Isidore Newman (38) and Country Day (32) have had success on the field. There aren't that many NOLA public schools that are 3A or below and the ones that do exist are newer charter schools or schools who have only recently started football programs. When I say recently that's within the last 20-30 years so they haven't had a chance to make the playoffs that often. Riverside should also be mentioned in that group I suppose. While they have not made the playoffs as often as the others, they were previously part of the LISA league before joining the LHSAA and they did have playoff success while in that league. With the sheer number of schools in NOLA and the fierce competition that goes on between schools to get students, it's really amazing what Curtis has been able to do. They had to start small though and work their way up. It took them about 20 years before they were ready to to move into the upper classifications. They were 2A from 1970-1984, then moved up to 3A for 85-90, then moved up to 4A in 1991 where they stayed until 2005 when the play-in-class rule went into effect. Only after that was repealed did they move up to 5A. Compare that with Evangel who (and someone will correct me if I'm wrong I'm sure) only started playing football in the late 80s? Maybe? And was 1A through the 1994 season, then jumped to 3A for 4 years from 95-98, then jumped to 5A starting with the 99 season. They were able to jump to the state's highest classification in half the time it took Curtis to move up to 4A. So I think your theory really has merit when it comes to ECA and how they rose to dominance so quickly in an area that was hungry to support a winning team. As opposed to a private school trying to do the same thing in Northeast LA that has a much stronger tradition of winning public school programs.
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Post by wshs on May 16, 2019 13:22:17 GMT -6
As for central Louisiana, Benton would probably be classified as being Northwest Region in Bossier Parish. Not sure which region Ruston or Cedar Creek would be classified as but they have both had success. Winnfield has 43 playoff appearances, 2 state titles and four state runner ups for central Louisiana.
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Post by Raven on May 16, 2019 14:09:48 GMT -6
As for central Louisiana, Benton would probably be classified as being Northwest Region in Bossier Parish. Not sure which region Ruston or Cedar Creek would be classified as but they have both had success. Winnfield has 43 playoff appearances, 2 state titles and four state runner ups for central Louisiana. You are correct. I get Benton and Bolton confused for some reason. And I'm not sure how I missed Winnfield. Their record is quite impressive. I wasn't sure if you guys considered yourselves Central LA or North LA being roughly halfway between Alex and Ruston. I probably meant to go back and add you guys in later and then the post got longer than I had anticipated and I forgot all about it. My apologies for any perceived slight. It was not intended.
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Post by Sixpack on May 16, 2019 14:42:52 GMT -6
I can tell you this. I was following Evangel football when they first began playing. I know what brought about Evangel's success. It started with Denny Duron. When he outfitted his first team with borrowed uniforms and equipment he was determined to build a powerhouse football program in tandem with religion. Second, and don't ask me how, but in the first few years it just so happened that the Evangel zone produced about 20 of the best football players to ever play in Shreveport and most of those 20 or so players came from families living right in that zone. The school also hired excellent and dedicated coaches determined to build a football power and the community got behind them. That allowed for success on a very high scale. As someone mentioned in an earlier post Shreveport was hungry for a winner. The best players in Shreveport and eventually all of Norwest La, and beyond wanted to play for Evangel. I was at football game once between two Shreveport public schools and a fan of one of the schools sat down beside me with his junior high age son. This kid was already at least 6 ft. 2 in. tall and about 190. I asked him if he would be playing for his team in a couple of years. His dad said no, he was going to Evangel. And that's exactly what he did and later started for the Eagles. Get the picture? When you have the kind of success in football that Evangel had in the early years and you are in an area hungry for success you can get any player from anywhere that you want. The best players will either transfer legally into the zone and play or they will live outside the zone and sit out a year and play. And it's all legal.
Evangel never did anything wrong. Evangel should be commended for their success and for never breaking any rules but Evangel, like all private schools, had an unfair legal advantage over the public schools they were stomping. They could utilize the LHSAA rules to use players living outside their assigned zone. Did Evangel use the transfer and sit out rules to help win their championships? I'm pretty sure they did but I don't know how much they used it. It doesn't matter. The point is they HAD those rules and public schools could not utilize those SAME rules. Whether Evangel used those rules a little bit or a lot they had the opportunity to use those rules and public schools did not have that same opportunity. That my friends is not fair.
Evangel offered to play up to the highest classification and that's all they could do to solve the problem other than agree not to utilize the LHSAA rules they were given to play under and they would have been stupid to offer to do that.
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Post by wshs on May 16, 2019 15:10:12 GMT -6
As for central Louisiana, Benton would probably be classified as being Northwest Region in Bossier Parish. Not sure which region Ruston or Cedar Creek would be classified as but they have both had success. Winnfield has 43 playoff appearances, 2 state titles and four state runner ups for central Louisiana. You are correct. I get Benton and Bolton confused for some reason. And I'm not sure how I missed Winnfield. Their record is quite impressive. I wasn't sure if you guys considered yourselves Central LA or North LA being roughly halfway between Alex and Ruston. I probably meant to go back and add you guys in later and then the post got longer than I had anticipated and I forgot all about it. My apologies for any perceived slight. It was not intended. That’s not how I took it. Don’t forget Haynesville and Logansport for the Northwest. Was a time the biggest baddest public and private feared them.
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Post by chalmetteowl on May 18, 2019 13:10:48 GMT -6
I can absolutely see where the public schools are coming from. It was obvious that ECA and JC have been dominant on the football field on a consistent basis for 30+ years. Much more consistently than any public school, but also more consistently than any other private school. With that in mind, we can infer that there was something in common with these two schools that was not available to any other school. What was that? If it was simply that they were private schools, then there would need to be other examples of private schools with similar stories of sustained success. Where are those private schools? You could say Ouachita Christian has been successful and they have been. In their classification. But could they have consistently played and beaten 4A or 5A public school playoff teams? Probably not. Notre Dame has a very successful program and they have beaten some higher classification schools in their area. But they have also lost to public schools in their area and from other areas in the state that were within their classification. Mostly when they were in the 3A ranks. I'm not sure if they have lost to a 2A public school since moving down. University could be seen as a successful program overall. They won a state title in the 70s, and I think 2 more in the 80s and in the last 3-4 years under Coach Mahaffey they have been nearly as good as ECA or Curtis. But they have not had that sustained success. Redemptorist in Baton Rouge was on track to become another powerful private school, but their success only really started under Coach Sid Edwards and after he left they had a few successful years, even won another title before eventually dropping in enrollment from 4A all the way back to 1A before closing their doors for good all within a 10 year span. Catholic of Baton Rouge has appeared to take up the banner of another private school power, but only since the split. While they have been able to beat Zachary and other public schools from the Baton Rouge area, they still (to my knowledge) have never been able to beat West Monroe. So while they have consistently had winning seasons, they have not shown themselves to be consistently dominant over their public school counterparts over sustained periods of time. So we have to ask ourselves, what is different about ECA and JC that is not only different from the public schools, but also different from all the other private schools as well? Obviously it's not something that is shared by all private schools, or there would be more private schools with a sustained record of success in athletics. And while we have some examples of other private schools that are successful most of the time, and some that have intermittent spurts of dominance, that is really no different than the successful public school programs from around the state. In my opinion there are 4 things that ECA and JC share that other schools just cannot match. And by other schools I mean both public and private. Some traits are shared by other schools, but I don't think any other school has all 4. 1. They are both located in large metropolitan areas. Sure there are other schools both public and private that are located in and around New Orleans and Shreveport. And with parish-wide boundaries they can enroll students from outside of their traditional zones. Much like JC and ECA. But they are lacking at least one of the other three traits. 2. They run a consistent system. From their elementary teams through to the high school level all of their teams run the same system using the same terminology and playing with the same teammates for all of those years. By the time they reach the high school level, coaches don't need to spend time teaching them offensive and defensive alignments since they've known them for 5 years or more already. They concentrate their practice time on individual player development and improvement. 3. Fundraising. This is probably the biggest difference between these 2 schools and other private schools. Both schools have tremendous financial support and are very successful in finding ways to increase their athletic revenue streams. No other 2A or 3A private school can match the kind of athletic budget that ECA and JC have. That allows extra money for better facilities and better pay to attract better coaches. 4. Administrations that put a priority toward athletics. By this I don't mean to suggest that they lack academically or that they don't care about the academic side, but rather that they put a greater emphasis on athletic success and give their athletic departments the support that they need in order to continue to be successful. Obviously there are other schools that do this as well, but they lack one or more of the other components that are necessary to have that sustained success at the 5A level. For Curtis I would have to add a 5th advantage in that they have had the same head coach for at least as long as I have been alive. That is nearly unheard of in today's world of high school football. For those reasons, and maybe more that I haven't thought of, ECA and JC have been able to sustain success at a level that is above what their traditional enrollment size would seem to suggest. No other school (public or private) with a 1A-3A enrollment would be able to have that level success without having all 4 of the listed requirements. Wonderful info. I agree to an extent. To piggyback on your thesis, I'd like to extend what I believe separated JC and Evangel from other privates. You are exactly right. Those two HAVE to have something different otherwise we would have seen similar success in other private schools. Here is what I believe both of those schools have - or didn't have - which made them the juggernauts they are. I believe John Curtis and Evangel, both being private schools who played under a different set of rules - became so successful because neither of them are located in an area where a traditional PUBLIC powerhouse resides. This would explain why OCS, while being successful in their own class, likely would not have seen the same success against 4A and 5A competition. They reside in the same parish as West Monroe and Neville, both traditional powers. A John Curtis or Evangel would not have worked in the Monroe area due to this. John Curtis IS the traditional power in NOLA. Evangle IS the traditional power in Shreveport. notice when Curtis got big in the 70s, Brother Martin and St. Aug were winning state championships, Jesuit played for one, and West Jefferson and Bonnabel each played for one. Those teams have combined for one title since then. Every kid Curtis gets is a kid that won't be at whoever in the NOLA area.
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