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Post by kamala on Feb 4, 2016 13:16:30 GMT -6
" I know the truth is that the public schools are capable of winning if they just didn't have coaches and fans who were such defeatists."
Really?!!
Lol.
So imported talent has nothing to do with the results?
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Post by LA318 on Feb 4, 2016 13:17:56 GMT -6
There are 11 select football teams North of Alexandria: Evangel Calvary Menard Loyola OCS St. Mary St. Fredrick Beekman Charter Delhi Charter Grambling Lab Cedar Creek Just saw someone saying there was 8.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 13:22:56 GMT -6
" I know the truth is that the public schools are capable of winning if they just didn't have coaches and fans who were such defeatists." Really?!! Lol. So imported talent has nothing to do with the results? It plays a part. May of the public schools have used imported talent to win games and championships. Of course you call them "legitimate moves". The VAST majority of private schools never win championships, never compete for a title, but still suit up and play every time. And try to win. The public schools show up, claim the private school has an advantage, and play to the predetermined result. Then go home and shine up their clicker.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 13:24:08 GMT -6
If Select schools are the superior group here, won't their playoffs be the Elite Playoffs and the Public Playoffs be the consolation prize? Wouldn't the split actually ENHANCE the aura of the Select champions? If that's the case, why are they against the split? Seems like this will only help them become more attractive to student from 7 parishes that may want to come there and just happen to be athletes. It's because they now have to play a tough game, no more cake walks, in the 2nd round instead of beating up on a public school. Pretty impressive when you can beat a team down 42-0, yeah right. As opposed to the 0-10 team Kinder plays in round one. Its just going to be funny in about 5 years when Kinder and Many have dominated 2A, who will the other publics blame then?
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Post by eag on Feb 4, 2016 13:25:28 GMT -6
Actually, the majority of private schools in the LHSAA are "small in enrollment" and "are what they are". One difference between them and the public schools is that they have the courage to compete against everyone in their district in the playoffs and they do not try to vote out the other team when they lose. If the MAIS schools joined with the evicted select schools in Louisiana, most will still never win a state championship, but will still teach kids to compete. Public schools will continue to vote for "change" until every kid gets a trophy. The ONLY MAIS school on that list that would likely join with the new private league would be River Oaks. The rest will stick with the MAIS because of the same reason that split has happened. They know that there will be the certain group of factory schools that will dominate every year. DINGDINGDING!!!! That in a nutshell is the issue with the split. The split does not fix the problem of dominant programs at all. It just makes it go away for a few good public schools. Vandebilt Catholic and St Micheal's are just as much a part of the LHSAA as are Many and Kentwood. But the LHSAA let them down. It moved them to a bracket where there are now far MORE likely to play a 'factory' school while moving the others to a bracket where they will never have to do it. And their public school brethren not only let it happen, they are celebrating it. Guys like Bigbob do not give one whit about it, and these are supposed to be their brethren in LHSAA. Now no one sees them as what they are, but as a nasty 'private' school. The LHSAA exec committee let these schools down by not coming up with a better plan, but why should they do all that work? The public schools, who are the large majority, didn't care as long as THEY didn't have to deal with the 'factories'. Hannan didn't create JC, didn't have anything more to do with JC than Kinder. But when Kinder and Many gang up and say that we don't give a crap what happens to Hannan as long as WE don't have to play JC, then the organization is of no benefit to Hannan anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 13:25:48 GMT -6
There are 11 select football teams North of Alexandria: Evangel Calvary Menard Loyola OCS St. Mary St. Fredrick Beekman Charter Delhi Charter Grambling Lab Cedar Creek Just saw someone saying there was 8. i don't think all select schools will go though. It will be mostly private schools. The funny thing will be how fast the LHSAA reverses the split after that. Because the argument has NEVER really been about "select". it is jealousy of privates.
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Post by indy on Feb 4, 2016 13:26:19 GMT -6
So Tim Detillier was more successful at St. Charles than Lutcher? Bill Stubbs is more successful at Riverside than Salmon? I didn't say he was more successful but he was winning and the school was sorry to see him leave. As for Stubbs give time and I think he will be.
I think good coaches will win wether they are at a public or private school. Those are just two. Add Louie Cook, Brent Indest, and I'm sure many others. Public or private have little to do with it. I'm not condoning him but you could put JT Curtis and his staff in Church Point and he would win. I do feel for the schools that are stuck with bad coaches but that's no reason to split.
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Post by FlyinPigskin on Feb 4, 2016 13:28:24 GMT -6
Yeah, you're right, someone will be blamed. Publics will forever be blamed for watered down playoffs and privates losing in the 2nd round. Lol, you guys are so funny.
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Post by indy on Feb 4, 2016 13:31:15 GMT -6
Yeah, you're right, someone will be blamed. Publics will forever be blamed for watered down playoffs and privates losing in the 2nd round. Lol, you guys are so funny. That's an ic answer
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Post by FlyinPigskin on Feb 4, 2016 13:34:06 GMT -6
Well, aren't you the pot calling the kettle black, ic much.
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Post by Raven on Feb 4, 2016 14:03:21 GMT -6
There are 11 select football teams North of Alexandria: Evangel Calvary Menard Loyola OCS St. Mary St. Fredrick Beekman Charter Delhi Charter Grambling Lab Cedar Creek Just saw someone saying there was 8. i don't think all select schools will go though. It will be mostly private schools. The funny thing will be how fast the LHSAA reverses the split after that. Because the argument has NEVER really been about "select". it is jealousy of privates. I think all of the select schools plus some of the bigger traditional public schools would go. Most of the magnet schools and charter schools will also go because they know as soon as they start winning, someone will blame them for having an unfair advantage and want to vote them into a separate playoff category.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 14:09:10 GMT -6
i don't think all select schools will go though. It will be mostly private schools. The funny thing will be how fast the LHSAA reverses the split after that. Because the argument has NEVER really been about "select". it is jealousy of privates. I think all of the select schools plus some of the bigger traditional public schools would go. Most of the magnet schools and charter schools will also go because they know as soon as they start winning, someone will blame them for having an unfair advantage and want to vote them into a separate playoff category. I absolutely agree with the vote part. My thoughts are that not all charter and magnet schools can make the decision without some higher level approval. The privates can go immediately. also, remember a couple years back the legislature voted on some restrictions for athletic associations that public schools can be a part of. so I am just saying that the initial wave will be private schools. That would leave the LHSAA in a quandary to then deal with the select schools remaining. I do not think there will be an issue of who a school can let in or from where a school gets students after that. thus proving that this has never been the problem in the first place.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 14:23:30 GMT -6
I don't know about that. I can give three coaches off the top of my head that have success on both sides. Tim Detillier was a winner (although no state championships) at St. Charles Catholic. Louie Cook has won state championships at both public and private schools as well as Frank Monica who has won state championships at Lutcher and SCC.
Thanks for proving my point. Coaching it's athletes. I always use Evangel as an example. Many ECA assistant coaches have gone on to head coaching jobs. How many have won state championships at other schools, little less public ones? Shouldn't one be able to replicate tactics and philosophy? ECA legend Dennis Dunn never won state until he coached at ECA.
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Post by 64 on Feb 4, 2016 14:25:05 GMT -6
There are 11 select football teams North of Alexandria: Evangel Calvary Menard Loyola OCS St. Mary St. Fredrick Beekman Charter Delhi Charter Grambling Lab Cedar Creek Just saw someone saying there was 8. also Delta Charter in Ferriday and Darbonne Woods in Farmerville making it 13.
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Post by btown on Feb 4, 2016 14:35:50 GMT -6
What difference does it matter. The split tells you that the privates are better than the public. Why would you be worried about playing a public school in the playoffs when you can play the best private school out there. Sound like to me the privates are getting the better playoff games. No, the split doesn't tell me that at all. The public schools say that so they can avoid playing someone they concede the game to. YOU are the one saying the private schools are better. I know the truth is that the public schools are capable of winning if they just didn't have coaches and fans who were such defeatists. And seriously, the split in football caused 0-10 teams to make the playoffs. Are you seriously saying that is a better game? I am not the one saying the privates are better, the principals that proposed the split, voted on the split said that. You look at the playoff brackets ever year prior to the split and see the privates domate. Just about what norm of what I get, once you run out of arguments the insults start. I total agree about the playoffs and have be pushing for 16 team brackets, which better for the kids.
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Post by btown on Feb 4, 2016 14:51:32 GMT -6
If you sit around on your hands and do nothing you normal have to do what other guy wants to do. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE SPLIT AND YOU WANT TO STAY IN LHSAA GET WITH YOUR PRINCIPAL, COME UP WITH A BETTER PLAN, GET THE SUPPORT AND PUT IT ON THE AGENDA FOR NEXT YEAR, IF YOU WANT TO LEAVE NO ONE CAN STOP YOU. There was a large number of schools that were not happy with the old system and that is what they did, but what everyone is telling them is that they should have kept on liking it and kept their month closed and there ideas to themselves.
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Post by btown on Feb 4, 2016 15:04:54 GMT -6
This a quota from another poster on another thread that I agree with.
"Both the private and public schools get plenty from belonging to the LHSAA. They get good competition during the year, they get reasonable travel to keep natural rivalries and their cost down and they get increased gate revenue by playing local schools. In addition, you don't see a whole lot of Division I players coming out of the Louisiana version of MISA. From where I stand, if the private schools break away they still don't get to combine with the public schools. So what have they really accomplished? They just added more travel, more expense and less competition to there program. Not a very smart business decision."
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Post by thesplit on Feb 4, 2016 15:21:41 GMT -6
No shock at all this article is to strike fear they aren't going anywhere. Ed Daniels is JT Curtis mouthpiece he's doing as he's told he's a puppet. Notice he said nothing on Twitter untill this article.
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Post by eag on Feb 4, 2016 15:24:02 GMT -6
Thanks for proving my point. Coaching it's athletes. I always use Evangel as an example. Many ECA assistant coaches have gone on to head coaching jobs. How many have won state championships at other schools, little less public ones? Shouldn't one be able to replicate tactics and philosophy? ECA legend Dennis Dunn never won state until he coached at ECA. A post Attilathehun made in another thread got me thinking. Among other things he proposed limiting coaching staff size by class. I think this idea may have great merit. I know when I've seen Curtis play they have a huge coaching staff. Other schools with great success are the same, and most schools with moderate or lesser success have smaller staffs. Do the guys like Dunn before ECA and his assistants that have moved on have the same kind of staff at the other schools? Someone months ago propised looking at budgets to classify schools. This staff limitation may be a great idea and it is very simple. What would it look like if staff size was limited? I'd be willing to bet that the winningest programs, public or private, have the biggest and best staffs. I'd bet that has a greater effect than even players. Interesting to consider
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Post by gentlemanjack on Feb 4, 2016 15:37:46 GMT -6
Many students do not transfer because they do not want to be ineligible for a year,, it is tough to sit one year and lose out on one year of your life,,, Sometimes students rather stay instead of give up,,,,,,That is one thing I will say I liked about the MAIS when I was in it,,kids didn't lose any eligibility. If it is about the kids,,,,,then why make them sit out? If a kid went from the MAIS to the LHSAA they didn't lose any eligibility. Some schools do have tuition assistance if they qualify which is no different than public school kids that go on mine and your taxes. I don't know what is going to happen over the next year but I do know there is a lot of unhappy people whether it is public or private with the way things are right now. So if I understand you correctly if the rule was more like the NCAA rule where the kids has to sit out then it isn't about the kids. That is the biggest piece of garbage there is and from a coach you should know that the field of play or court or track is an extension of the classroom and the lessons taught are greater than the sport itself and one of the major lessons that sports teaches the "kids" is that life if NOT fair, and more importantly life is about choices and the ramifications of those choices whether they are your choices or choices of others. So I firmly believe that if this was in place along with a very steep financial penalty and suspension to playoffs we would not even be discussing this at this time.
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Post by eag on Feb 4, 2016 15:47:54 GMT -6
Many students do not transfer because they do not want to be ineligible for a year,, it is tough to sit one year and lose out on one year of your life,,, Sometimes students rather stay instead of give up,,,,,,That is one thing I will say I liked about the MAIS when I was in it,,kids didn't lose any eligibility. If it is about the kids,,,,,then why make them sit out? If a kid went from the MAIS to the LHSAA they didn't lose any eligibility. Some schools do have tuition assistance if they qualify which is no different than public school kids that go on mine and your taxes. I don't know what is going to happen over the next year but I do know there is a lot of unhappy people whether it is public or private with the way things are right now. So if I understand you correctly if the rule was more like the NCAA rule where the kids has to sit out then it isn't about the kids. That is the biggest piece of garbage there is and from a coach you should know that the field of play or court or track is an extension of the classroom and the lessons taught are greater than the sport itself and one of the major lessons that sports teaches the "kids" is that life if NOT fair, and more importantly life is about choices and the ramifications of those choices whether they are your choices or choices of others. So I firmly believe that if this was in place along with a very steep financial penalty and suspension to playoffs we would not even be discussing this at this time. So, you'd make a middle of the road kid who's dad got a new job in a new town that he can't play sports for a year? The very sports that would allow him to establish connections and roots in his new community? Sad thing is, I'd support this over the split. But it would be so much better to just classify programs based on where they belong. Solves all that stuff, and the kids still get to play.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 15:50:31 GMT -6
it's athletes. I always use Evangel as an example. Many ECA assistant coaches have gone on to head coaching jobs. How many have won state championships at other schools, little less public ones? Shouldn't one be able to replicate tactics and philosophy? ECA legend Dennis Dunn never won state until he coached at ECA. A post Attilathehun made in another thread got me thinking. Among other things he proposed limiting coaching staff size by class. I think this idea may have great merit. I know when I've seen Curtis play they have a huge coaching staff. Other schools with great success are the same, and most schools with moderate or lesser success have smaller staffs. Do the guys like Dunn before ECA and his assistants that have moved on have the same kind of staff at the other schools? Someone months ago propised looking at budgets to classify schools. This staff limitation may be a great idea and it is very simple. What would it look like if staff size was limited? I'd be willing to bet that the winningest programs, public or private, have the biggest and best staffs. I'd bet that has a greater effect than even players. Interesting to consider Haynesville has as many coaches total as some school have for just one side the ball.
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Post by eag on Feb 4, 2016 16:00:45 GMT -6
Curious- how many do they have?
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Post by indy on Feb 4, 2016 16:11:35 GMT -6
Are we really going there now? Number of coaches and number of players? Geez . What next, how many doctors on the sidelines? How many seats in the stadium? Teams with bigger bands have an advantage! Come on guys, it's high school.,no two teams are remotely the same. All shapes and sizes, public, private, religious etc. let the kids play in peace! Geez
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Post by Raven on Feb 4, 2016 16:21:30 GMT -6
A post Attilathehun made in another thread got me thinking. Among other things he proposed limiting coaching staff size by class. I think this idea may have great merit. I know when I've seen Curtis play they have a huge coaching staff. Other schools with great success are the same, and most schools with moderate or lesser success have smaller staffs. Do the guys like Dunn before ECA and his assistants that have moved on have the same kind of staff at the other schools? Someone months ago propised looking at budgets to classify schools. This staff limitation may be a great idea and it is very simple. What would it look like if staff size was limited? I'd be willing to bet that the winningest programs, public or private, have the biggest and best staffs. I'd bet that has a greater effect than even players. Interesting to consider Haynesville has as many coaches total as some school have for just one side the ball. And Haynesville has twice as many coaches as some small private schools. It goes both ways.
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Post by gentlemanjack on Feb 4, 2016 16:24:15 GMT -6
So if I understand you correctly if the rule was more like the NCAA rule where the kids has to sit out then it isn't about the kids. That is the biggest piece of garbage there is and from a coach you should know that the field of play or court or track is an extension of the classroom and the lessons taught are greater than the sport itself and one of the major lessons that sports teaches the "kids" is that life if NOT fair, and more importantly life is about choices and the ramifications of those choices whether they are your choices or choices of others. So I firmly believe that if this was in place along with a very steep financial penalty and suspension to playoffs we would not even be discussing this at this time. So, you'd make a middle of the road kid who's dad got a new job in a new town that he can't play sports for a year? The very sports that would allow him to establish connections and roots in his new community? Sad thing is, I'd support this over the split. But it would be so much better to just classify programs based on where they belong. Solves all that stuff, and the kids still get to play. Yes, I would and that is part of life and the lessons we are faced and many before us have up to now. I'd rather teach a kid the harsh realities of life through sports rather he/she be cuddled through athletics getting trophies as many would say for participation and getting to play because of hardship. Heck hardship is a fact of life and better learn it at an early stage in life to you are prepared to deal with it. As I heard Herm Edwards state last night 6% of HS football players in this country play D-1 ball and from that 1% may play NFL, it is safe to say that the remainder better learn more about life's lessons for that is what they will be dealing with instead of formations on a field the rest of their lives. Don't get me wrong I love athletics which is why this whole crap bothers me so. For we have including many so called educators and principals and coaches alike have continued to do the "kids" a great dis-service!
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Post by eag on Feb 4, 2016 18:41:02 GMT -6
Are we really going there now? Number of coaches and number of players? Geez . What next, how many doctors on the sidelines? How many seats in the stadium? Teams with bigger bands have an advantage! Come on guys, it's high school.,no two teams are remotely the same. All shapes and sizes, public, private, religious etc. let the kids play in peace! Geez [br I agree. I'm just trying to point out that there are many factors that determine a school's success on the field, and private status is simply not one of them. That is why this split is a bad solution
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Post by billyb on Feb 4, 2016 22:35:45 GMT -6
What you fail to understand is that the new association would not be limited to private schools. Public schools throughout the state would be invited to join. Those embracing competition will want to leave LHSAA. Remember that 120 schools voted to not split. That wasn't just private schools.
bob...Thanks for taking the time to tell me what I don't understand. Whew...now that you explained the situation I get it.
I knew exactly what I was talking about...and I know how many people did or didn't vote for the split....my point is that there are numerous additional private schools in north Louisiana that could be part of a new association...that could include public schools as well.
Peace Love and Touchdowns
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Post by attilathehun on Feb 9, 2016 7:31:52 GMT -6
What you fail to understand is that the new association would not be limited to private schools. Public schools throughout the state would be invited to join. Those embracing competition will want to leave LHSAA. Remember that 120 schools voted to not split. That wasn't just private schools.
Those embracing competition? You mean the ones who are cutting and running because they lost a vote? Instead of coming up with ideas that everyone can agree on they just take their ball and go home? You call that embracing competition?
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Post by btown on Feb 9, 2016 7:57:44 GMT -6
Those embracing competition? You mean the ones who are cutting and running because they lost a vote? Instead of coming up with ideas that everyone can agree on they just take their ball and go home? You call that embracing competition?
What they fail to understand about the public schools is leaving the LHSAA is not just up to that principal, they have a boss, School Board.
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