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Post by kamala on Nov 16, 2016 12:29:18 GMT -6
Oberlin doesn't have baseball? I must have missed that. Elton doesn't Oberlin does. And there are absolutely no kids from the Oberlin zone going to school in Kinder and the 2 from Elton that transferred to Kinder 8 years ago and I'm almost certain they live right on the Parish line which gives them the option of school of first choice. If thay be the case we are stealing kids from Iowa as well. So if kinder and Many gets zero kids from outside their natural zone, why did Booker and his clones feel the need to make such a rule? I'll type slowly so you can read it better.....BECAUSE NO OTHER SCHOOL IN THE PARISH HAS FOOTBALL AND THEY WANTED TO MAKE FOOTBALL AVAILABLE TO ANY KID IN THE PARISH IF THEY HAD A DESIRE TO PLAY FOOTBALL.
With Kinder, that wasn't the case....as you stated earlier. There are two three other football schools in Allen Parish.
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Post by kamala on Nov 16, 2016 12:31:09 GMT -6
Is it really thought that this rule was made to stop Many High? If so, what's the LHSAA beef with them? I don't see or get it Seriously? LOL
What rock have you been hiding under?
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Post by mt on Nov 16, 2016 12:33:23 GMT -6
To compare Many to Madison Prep or Byrd isn't a fair comparison at all. Other than Many there are 5-6 class B or C schools in the parish, and NONE of them offer FB, that is the ONLY way they are allowed to attend Many. Not to mention they must sit out a year when they enroll in Many, and should for any reason they quit they are required to return to their original school. Should a kid want to attend Byrd or MP they are allowed to even if the school they are coming from has FB, now rather or not they have to sit a year, I dont know. Plus the population of Sabine parish is roughly 24,000 and the population of East Baton Rouge Parish is almost 500,000. But I guess that many DI BB and FB players do live in the small neighborhood that MP is located. That neighborhood isn't small at all. These are kids that should be at Capitol High(taken over and has become a charter), Istrouma High. Both of these schools were two of the biggest schools in Baton Rouge for years. Istrouma was closed and Capitol was taken over so many parents removed there children if they could. The next closest schools are McKinley, Scotlandville and southern lab. Two magnet schools and one on fixed enrollment.
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Post by mt on Nov 16, 2016 12:34:19 GMT -6
Is it really thought that this rule was made to stop Many High? If so, what's the LHSAA beef with them? I don't see or get it Seriously? LOL
What rock have you been hiding under?
Rock in Baton Rouge, I know many has recently won but if there's a personal agenda against them I'd love to know. Is there somewhere I can read about it?
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Post by kamala on Nov 16, 2016 12:45:57 GMT -6
Lol.
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Post by sportsdude on Nov 16, 2016 13:25:57 GMT -6
Just so everyone will know....Elton and Basile have US hwy 190 running right thru the middle of town. It is also the parish line so.....that should complicate things a bit.....lol
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Post by eag on Nov 16, 2016 13:52:43 GMT -6
Random thoughts:
Kinda funny to me that the arguments within this thread sort of would lead a person to believe that a rural/metro split would make more sense than a public/private split, even though that is not the intent.
Saying that Many is like MP or Byrd is somewhat overstated, therefore making Many defenders a feel the need to lash back. But would it not be accurate to say that there is some advantage to the situation when compared to other 2A schools? Bottom line, the end result is that Many pulls a football team from a population of 1,109 students (Zwolle 201, Florien 152, Negreet 149, Converse 145, Ebarb 85, Pleasant Hill 71 plus Many's 306) but plays in 2A using only it's own enrollment of 306. Now, it has already been established by split supporters on here that it doesn't matter what a school does or does not do, only what it CAN do. If the argument that weaker private schools don't deserve consideration because they COULD become John Curtis, then it makes no actual difference exactly how many kids actually come to play football from thse other schools. Lack of interest, etc is not a consideration. Bottom line, the football team is derived from a pool of 1,109 students. This is undeniable fact. That is squarely in 4A territory. But Many feels like it needs to exclude schools like Menard ( who hasn't beaten Many in years), Northlake Christian, Sacred Heart because THOSE schools have an advantage?
That's where the hate for the split comes from. Crap like that-- not actually trying to create competitive balance, just trying to kick out private schools for being private.
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Post by mt on Nov 16, 2016 13:58:33 GMT -6
Random thoughts: Kinda funny to me that the arguments within this thread sort of would lead a person to believe that a rural/metro split would make more sense than a public/private split, even though that is not the intent. Saying that Many is like MP or Byrd is somewhat overstated, therefore making Many defenders a feel the need to lash back. But would it not be accurate to say that there is some advantage to the situation when compared to other 2A schools? Bottom line, the end result is that Many pulls a football team from a population of 1,109 students (Zwolle 201, Florien 152, Negreet 149, Converse 145, Ebarb 85, Pleasant Hill 71 plus Many's 306) but plays in 2A using only it's own enrollment of 306. Now, it has already been established by split supporters on here that it doesn't matter what a school does or does not do, only what it CAN do. If the argument that weaker private schools don't deserve consideration because they COULD become John Curtis, then it makes no actual difference exactly how many kids actually come to play football from thse other schools. Lack of interest, etc is not a consideration. Bottom line, the football team is derived from a pool of 1,109 students. This is undeniable fact. That is squarely in 4A territory. But Many feels like it needs to exclude schools like Menard ( who hasn't beaten Many in years), Northlake Christian, Sacred Heart because THOSE schools have an advantage? That's where the hate for the split comes from. Crap like that-- not actually trying to create competitive balance, just trying to kick out private schools for being private. Thanks, this helped me understand the Many HS situation a lot better. I honestly had no idea what the issue was.
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Post by ljswank on Nov 16, 2016 14:15:32 GMT -6
The bottom line to your question about Madison Prep is that the LHSAA saw Many rolling early in the year and realized they were a threat to win another title, and needed to try to cut that off to punish Many/Booker. There is no way Madison Prep is a non-select school, no matter what rules/standards you apply or look at. This was a decision made purely for political/retaliation purposes. I don't know that Many can beat Kinder, Welsh or Sterlington (although my money would be on Many against all 3), but Madison Prep is a different animal. They are a select school that draws kids from all over the Baton Rouge metro area. And they are very good! For the LHSAA to just wake up one morning after Week 5 of the season and declare Madison Prep non-select is irresponsible and blatant. Either start them as select and leave them for the remainder of the year, or make the change before the season starts. Swapping the designation in mid-season is unacceptable and obviously meant to gain a specific result. Then why didn't they move Many to select? Amazing to me that right after the split vote, they voted to let Many, Kinder or whoever get kids from their entire parish (and beyond) if those schools didn't offer football, baseball, or any other sport not offered. How is this different than MP? Might the difference be 100 times the population for MP, just saying....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2016 14:21:13 GMT -6
Random thoughts: Kinda funny to me that the arguments within this thread sort of would lead a person to believe that a rural/metro split would make more sense than a public/private split, even though that is not the intent. Saying that Many is like MP or Byrd is somewhat overstated, therefore making Many defenders a feel the need to lash back. But would it not be accurate to say that there is some advantage to the situation when compared to other 2A schools? Bottom line, the end result is that Many pulls a football team from a population of 1,109 students (Zwolle 201, Florien 152, Negreet 149, Converse 145, Ebarb 85, Pleasant Hill 71 plus Many's 306) but plays in 2A using only it's own enrollment of 306. Now, it has already been established by split supporters on here that it doesn't matter what a school does or does not do, only what it CAN do. If the argument that weaker private schools don't deserve consideration because they COULD become John Curtis, then it makes no actual difference exactly how many kids actually come to play football from thse other schools. Lack of interest, etc is not a consideration. Bottom line, the football team is derived from a pool of 1,109 students. This is undeniable fact. That is squarely in 4A territory. But Many feels like it needs to exclude schools like Menard ( who hasn't beaten Many in years), Northlake Christian, Sacred Heart because THOSE schools have an advantage? That's where the hate for the split comes from. Crap like that-- not actually trying to create competitive balance, just trying to kick out private schools for being private. While you make an interesting point, on the flip of this and by using your logic and your explanation, Menard (and Im not picking on them you just mentioned them in your post) then pulls from a pool of at least 5000+ students, because they can get students from ASH (1314), Bolton (561), Peabody (575), Pineville (1432), Tioga (912), and all the other school in Rapides Parish. Now does Menard only turn in their enrollment numbers or the entire student population of Rapides Parish? Now lets not even look at the population that Calvary, Evangel, JC, MP, and other private school can pull from. This is why theres a split. The difference is, should Zwolle ever get football, those kids are no longer eligible to attend Many, while Menard and other select schools can still get students from ANY FB playing school rather they are in their district, parish, or state. They can come from anywhere, they have no boundary zones.
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Post by indy on Nov 16, 2016 14:32:49 GMT -6
Random thoughts: Kinda funny to me that the arguments within this thread sort of would lead a person to believe that a rural/metro split would make more sense than a public/private split, even though that is not the intent. Saying that Many is like MP or Byrd is somewhat overstated, therefore making Many defenders a feel the need to lash back. But would it not be accurate to say that there is some advantage to the situation when compared to other 2A schools? Bottom line, the end result is that Many pulls a football team from a population of 1,109 students (Zwolle 201, Florien 152, Negreet 149, Converse 145, Ebarb 85, Pleasant Hill 71 plus Many's 306) but plays in 2A using only it's own enrollment of 306. Now, it has already been established by split supporters on here that it doesn't matter what a school does or does not do, only what it CAN do. If the argument that weaker private schools don't deserve consideration because they COULD become John Curtis, then it makes no actual difference exactly how many kids actually come to play football from thse other schools. Lack of interest, etc is not a consideration. Bottom line, the football team is derived from a pool of 1,109 students. This is undeniable fact. That is squarely in 4A territory. But Many feels like it needs to exclude schools like Menard ( who hasn't beaten Many in years), Northlake Christian, Sacred Heart because THOSE schools have an advantage? That's where the hate for the split comes from. Crap like that-- not actually trying to create competitive balance, just trying to kick out private schools for being private. While you make an interesting point, on the flip of this and by using your logic and your explanation, Menard (and Im not picking on them you just mentioned them in your post) then pulls from a pool of at least 5000+ students, because they can get students from ASH (1314), Bolton (561), Peabody (575), Pineville (1432), Tioga (912), and all the other school in Rapides Parish. Now does Menard only turn in their enrollment numbers or the entire student population of Rapides Parish? Now lets not even look at the population that Calvary, Evangel, JC, MP, and other private school can pull from. This is why theres a split. The difference is, should Zwolle ever get football, those kids are no longer eligible to attend Many, while Menard and other select schools can still get students from ANY FB playing school rather they are in their district, parish, or state. They can come from anywhere, they have no boundary zones. You make valid points as well. But the fact is Menard was forced by the likes of Many (Booker) to play select. Whereas Many with Booker sponsored rules allow themselves to play 2a football with parish a wide zone with the likes of Delcambre, Lake Arthur, Jenerette, etc. looks like Bookers rules are self dealing to me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2016 14:39:59 GMT -6
The only way for this situation to get fixed is for EVERY school (publics, privates, magnets, charter, etc) to have an attendance zone, and follow the same exact rules. If a kid doesn't live in your attendance zone, they do not play sports at your school. A kid is allowed to attend another school for safety, transportation reason, etc. but is not allowed to participate in ANY sports. Is this harsh, yes...does it stop the complaining from both sides, yes...at least for now.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Nov 16, 2016 14:43:13 GMT -6
Random thoughts: Kinda funny to me that the arguments within this thread sort of would lead a person to believe that a rural/metro split would make more sense than a public/private split, even though that is not the intent. Saying that Many is like MP or Byrd is somewhat overstated, therefore making Many defenders a feel the need to lash back. But would it not be accurate to say that there is some advantage to the situation when compared to other 2A schools? Bottom line, the end result is that Many pulls a football team from a population of 1,109 students (Zwolle 201, Florien 152, Negreet 149, Converse 145, Ebarb 85, Pleasant Hill 71 plus Many's 306) but plays in 2A using only it's own enrollment of 306. Now, it has already been established by split supporters on here that it doesn't matter what a school does or does not do, only what it CAN do. If the argument that weaker private schools don't deserve consideration because they COULD become John Curtis, then it makes no actual difference exactly how many kids actually come to play football from thse other schools. Lack of interest, etc is not a consideration. Bottom line, the football team is derived from a pool of 1,109 students. This is undeniable fact. That is squarely in 4A territory. But Many feels like it needs to exclude schools like Menard ( who hasn't beaten Many in years), Northlake Christian, Sacred Heart because THOSE schools have an advantage? That's where the hate for the split comes from. Crap like that-- not actually trying to create competitive balance, just trying to kick out private schools for being private. While you make an interesting point, on the flip of this and by using your logic and your explanation, Menard (and Im not picking on them you just mentioned them in your post) then pulls from a pool of at least 5000+ students, because they can get students from ASH (1314), Bolton (561), Peabody (575), Pineville (1432), Tioga (912), and all the other school in Rapides Parish. Now does Menard only turn in their enrollment numbers or the entire student population of Rapides Parish? Now lets not even look at the population that Calvary, Evangel, JC, MP, and other private school can pull from. This is why theres a split. The difference is, should Zwolle ever get football, those kids are no longer eligible to attend Many, while Menard and other select schools can still get students from ANY FB playing school rather they are in their district, parish, or state. They can come from anywhere, they have no boundary zones. This is the perfect reason that something like the Indiana Plan (discussed many times here) would solve the problem. A plan that looks at results on the field not just numbers enrolled would make it a more level playing field for everyone.
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Post by indy on Nov 16, 2016 14:47:10 GMT -6
The only way for this situation to get fixed is for EVERY school (publics, privates, magnets, charter, etc) to have an attendance zone, and follow the same exact rules. If a kid doesn't live in your attendance zone, they do not play sports at your school. A kid is allowed to attend another school for safety, transportation reason, etc. but is not allowed to participate in ANY sports. Is this harsh, yes...does it stop the complaining from both sides, yes...at least for now. There is no easy answer but allowing Booker to eliminate schools because of zones, then turning around and passing rules that expand his is totally hypocrital. Shame on 2a schools for taking this long to revolt.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Nov 16, 2016 14:59:51 GMT -6
The only way for this situation to get fixed is for EVERY school (publics, privates, magnets, charter, etc) to have an attendance zone, and follow the same exact rules. If a kid doesn't live in your attendance zone, they do not play sports at your school. A kid is allowed to attend another school for safety, transportation reason, etc. but is not allowed to participate in ANY sports. Is this harsh, yes...does it stop the complaining from both sides, yes...at least for now. Harsh -- Agree. Overkill -- YES. Most, not all, kids at Menard & St. Mary's in Natchitoches (the private schools I know the best) have been going to school together from Kindergarten. Why when they reach High School why should they (the kids) be punished (not allowed to play sports) for going to the Private School in the area they live (may not be in "ZONE"), but live in the same town. Don't parents have the right to send their kids to the school they choose. I know, parents choose schools for the sports teams only, right? Never for the education their child receives or because it is a school that their family has attended for generations. If you are a former coach as your name implies do you really feel that this would solve any problem or complaining?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2016 15:15:01 GMT -6
No I don't think this would solve the problem and people are always gonna find something to complain about. Regardless of any solutions that are decided on not 100% of the people will be happy. Its the same as a sports official, they can only make half the stadium happy at a time. Even if they make the right call the other side is still pissed about them making the call for some reason.
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Nov 16, 2016 15:19:26 GMT -6
That is why the Indiana Plan would work. It takes the human element out of saying that the team is too good and should be playing in X classification.
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Post by eag on Nov 16, 2016 15:24:58 GMT -6
Ahh, true Former Coach, but there are other barriers to enrollment. The largest of those is tuition. Those kids you mention can play football at the schools you mention for free, or they must CHOOSE to go to Menard and pay tution while adhering to tighter discipline and academic standards.
If I live next door to Negreet and like football, I am REQUIRED to go to Many or I cannot play. Many doesn't have to do anything to attract those kids except offer football. A private school must convince parents that the investment is worthwhile. That is what I see as the difference - Many gets ALL the football players from 1109 kids, Menard ( for example) has a chance at convincing some of 5000 kids that the extra cost and other stuff is worth it. Again, my take on the difference. We can go back and forth on what is a bigger advantage - ALL the kids from a smaller area or some of the kids from a bigger one.
But, if you've read my post history, it really is irrelevant. My belief is that all schools have different advantages over each other. Leverage them if you can, or don't, whatever. But I believe that Many should play in 2A, and I believe that Menard and Sacred Heart, and Northlake should play in 2A. I believe that IF we want to do something to make a level playing field, the ONLY sensible thing is to use on-field results to establish that. My point above was to establish that isolating a single factor (private status) as the only unfair advantage that exists, and the be-all/end-all of competitive advantage is silly.
Furthermore, your point actually serves to further mine in a way. Theoretically, a Menard should NEVER LOSE to a Many if private school attainment of kids is actually a huge advantage as split proponents would have us believe. Conveniently, they share a district and play annually. Makes for a nice case study! How's it working out for poor Many to have to deal with that private school that can get kids from anywhere ( Pineville, Houston, Oregon, NYC LOL) every year? Private status is not an automatic advantage and should not be a criteria for separataion.
If we want to do something like Indiana does ( that plan has been posted here many times) then I'm ok with it, even though I personally think it was all fine before the split. I'm OK with it because it actually uses the issue in question ( disproportionate success) to separate. That equalizes all advantages. No school sees THEIR advantage as a problem - only the OTHER guys advantage is a problem.
The current split unfairly impacts moderately successful private schools who will never be athletic factories by lumping them in with the John Curtis' of the state. These schools are paying members of LHSAA just as much as the top public schools who are the only ones gaining from this. Why is no one concerned about what it is doing to those schools?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2016 15:41:46 GMT -6
Eag, you make a valid point on tuition, while I dont know what private school cost do they offer scholarships for certain kids (athletic and academic) so they can attend school at a discounted rate or free? Also do all select schools charge a tuition or do Magnets, Charters, and Labs allow students to attend free? I really do not know, what does MP charge their students to attend school. If nothing and they are allowed to have their students live without attendance zones and attend school for the same price as a public school, that is an advantage. I do agree with you that "No school sees THEIR advantage as a problem - only the OTHER guys advantage is a problem" and this is the problem. Bottom line is there is no plan that will make everyone happy, Im just glad were not out rioting and protesting and makes fools of ourselves over this.
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Post by Raven on Nov 16, 2016 16:05:11 GMT -6
Eag, you make a valid point on tuition, while I dont know what private school cost do they offer scholarships for certain kids (athletic and academic) so they can attend school at a discounted rate or free? Also do all select schools charge a tuition or do Magnets, Charters, and Labs allow students to attend free? I really do not know, what does MP charge their students to attend school. If nothing and they are allowed to have their students live without attendance zones and attend school for the same price as a public school, that is an advantage. I do agree with you that "No school sees THEIR advantage as a problem - only the OTHER guys advantage is a problem" and this is the problem. Bottom line is there is no plan that will make everyone happy, Im just glad were not out rioting and protesting and makes fools of ourselves over this. Private schools have tuition ranging from about $5000 per year to over $20,000 per year depending on where you live and how much you are willing to pay. Some of them offer financial assistance directly and some have financial assistance through a church or other non-profit sponsor. Charter schools are considered public schools and do not charge tuition. Lab schools are also considered public schools but are allowed to charge tuition, which usually amounts to about 1/2 to 1/3 of what a traditional private school would charge.
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Post by mt on Nov 16, 2016 16:10:56 GMT -6
Eag, you make a valid point on tuition, while I dont know what private school cost do they offer scholarships for certain kids (athletic and academic) so they can attend school at a discounted rate or free? Also do all select schools charge a tuition or do Magnets, Charters, and Labs allow students to attend free? I really do not know, what does MP charge their students to attend school. If nothing and they are allowed to have their students live without attendance zones and attend school for the same price as a public school, that is an advantage. I do agree with you that "No school sees THEIR advantage as a problem - only the OTHER guys advantage is a problem" and this is the problem. Bottom line is there is no plan that will make everyone happy, Im just glad were not out rioting and protesting and makes fools of ourselves over this. Private schools have tuition ranging from about $5000 per year to over $20,000 per year depending on where you live and how much you are willing to pay. Some of them offer financial assistance directly and some have financial assistance through a church or other non-profit sponsor. Charter schools are considered public schools and do not charge tuition. Lab schools are also considered public schools but are allowed to charge tuition, which usually amounts to about 1/2 to 1/3 of what a traditional private school would charge. MPA doesn't charge any tuition to answer Coach.
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Post by eag on Nov 16, 2016 16:12:56 GMT -6
Eag, you make a valid point on tuition, while I dont know what private school cost do they offer scholarships for certain kids (athletic and academic) so they can attend school at a discounted rate or free? Also do all select schools charge a tuition or do Magnets, Charters, and Labs allow students to attend free? I really do not know, what does MP charge their students to attend school. If nothing and they are allowed to have their students live without attendance zones and attend school for the same price as a public school, that is an advantage. I do agree with you that "No school sees THEIR advantage as a problem - only the OTHER guys advantage is a problem" and this is the problem. Bottom line is there is no plan that will make everyone happy, Im just glad were not out rioting and protesting and makes fools of ourselves over this. It is good that we aren't rioting over this, for sure. I've considered it, but then I got busy and kinda forgot.... "Bottom line is there is no plan that will make everyone happy" Agree totally. That is why it is the job of the LHSAA to make everything as FAIR as possible for all paying members. It isn't going to make people happy. Currently they are trying to make public schools happy even though there is nothing at all fair about this particular plan. Who is better equipped to play Riverside? Many, Kinder, or Menard, St Thomas Aquinas? A fair system would not protect Kinder from Riverside while saddling the kids from St Thomas Aquinas with them every year.
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Post by khsyellowjackets94 on Nov 16, 2016 16:20:25 GMT -6
I don't know why the LHSAA came out with a new list mid season but according to my reading Madison Prep had switched to an open enrollment policy and did away with admission standards. Any student in East Baton Rouge Parish can enroll in their school and they they do not charge tuition. It is a state funded school and has no standards for student retention or admission. Maybe this link will shed some light on Scotlandville. Apparently there are some admission standards. www.ebrmagnet.org/site356.php
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Post by chalmetteowl on Nov 16, 2016 16:44:16 GMT -6
i have a question about Sabine Parish and Many, et al...
do they not have zones for the other schools in their parish? point me to the LHSAA rule where it says kids can cross zone lines to play a certain sport...
if Many is taking kids that aren't in their zone, they need to be moved to select. I would like to see the threshold for out of zone kids in nonselect go from 25% to 1% or 5%
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Post by mt on Nov 16, 2016 16:51:24 GMT -6
I don't know why the LHSAA came out with a new list mid season but according to my reading Madison Prep had switched to an open enrollment policy and did away with admission standards. Any student in East Baton Rouge Parish can enroll in their school and they they do not charge tuition. It is a state funded school and has no standards for student retention or admission. Maybe this link will shed some light on Scotlandville. Apparently there are some admission standards. www.ebrmagnet.org/site356.phpScotlandville, McKinley and Baton Rouge High have the same set of standards basically. Scotlandville is the one most related to sports however.
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Post by Raven on Nov 16, 2016 16:54:23 GMT -6
I don't know why the LHSAA came out with a new list mid season but according to my reading Madison Prep had switched to an open enrollment policy and did away with admission standards. Any student in East Baton Rouge Parish can enroll in their school and they they do not charge tuition. It is a state funded school and has no standards for student retention or admission. Maybe this link will shed some light on Scotlandville. Apparently there are some admission standards. www.ebrmagnet.org/site356.phpI think the change in admission policy had a lot to do with switching them to the non-select side. However, I am not sure how long they will be able to keep that policy. From all I have heard, they are a very good school. The more people that want to send their kids there means there will eventually come a point at which they will no longer be able to accept anyone who wants to attend. All schools have some physical limit for the number of students that they can accept. I think at that time they will be forced back to the select side. Eventually we might see that administration start another school. There could be Madison Prep North and Madison Prep South for each end of EBR parish.
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Post by mt on Nov 16, 2016 17:02:33 GMT -6
I don't know why the LHSAA came out with a new list mid season but according to my reading Madison Prep had switched to an open enrollment policy and did away with admission standards. Any student in East Baton Rouge Parish can enroll in their school and they they do not charge tuition. It is a state funded school and has no standards for student retention or admission. Maybe this link will shed some light on Scotlandville. Apparently there are some admission standards. www.ebrmagnet.org/site356.phpI think the change in admission policy had a lot to do with switching them to the non-select side. However, I am not sure how long they will be able to keep that policy. From all I have heard, they are a very good school. The more people that want to send their kids there means there will eventually come a point at which they will no longer be able to accept anyone who wants to attend. All schools have some physical limit for the number of students that they can accept. I think at that time they will be forced back to the select side. Eventually we might see that administration start another school. There could be Madison Prep North and Madison Prep South for each end of EBR parish. Nothing Jeff Jones and Lamont Cole do shock me. Apparently they are a blue ribbon school of excellence also. If you've ever been there you'd be beyond shocked at that. Good people nonetheless
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Post by OICU812 on Nov 16, 2016 17:08:55 GMT -6
i have a question about Sabine Parish and Many, et al... do they not have zones for the other schools in their parish? point me to the LHSAA rule where it says kids can cross zone lines to play a certain sport... if Many is taking kids that aren't in their zone, they need to be moved to select. I would like to see the threshold for out of zone kids in nonselect go from 25% to 1% or 5% All schools in Sabine Parish have zones, it's not an open parish. If a particular student in the parish wants to play football (can't transfer for other sports) he is allowed to go to Many to play after meeting all regular transfer rules. Move in the zone, play immediately, live outside the zone, sit out a year. They are enrolled in MHS and do count toward the enrollment numbers. They can only attend if they play football.,....if they quit, they go back to zoned school. There are some legit sources on this site that say there are no MHS football players from out of their zone, I tend to believe them!!
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Post by warhorsepride on Nov 16, 2016 17:14:09 GMT -6
Ahh, true Former Coach, but there are other barriers to enrollment. The largest of those is tuition. Those kids you mention can play football at the schools you mention for free, or they must CHOOSE to go to Menard and pay tution while adhering to tighter discipline and academic standards. If I live next door to Negreet and like football, I am REQUIRED to go to Many or I cannot play. Many doesn't have to do anything to attract those kids except offer football. A private school must convince parents that the investment is worthwhile. That is what I see as the difference - Many gets ALL the football players from 1109 kids, Menard ( for example) has a chance at convincing some of 5000 kids that the extra cost and other stuff is worth it. Again, my take on the difference. We can go back and forth on what is a bigger advantage - ALL the kids from a smaller area or some of the kids from a bigger one. But, if you've read my post history, it really is irrelevant. My belief is that all schools have different advantages over each other. Leverage them if you can, or don't, whatever. But I believe that Many should play in 2A, and I believe that Menard and Sacred Heart, and Northlake should play in 2A. I believe that IF we want to do something to make a level playing field, the ONLY sensible thing is to use on-field results to establish that. My point above was to establish that isolating a single factor (private status) as the only unfair advantage that exists, and the be-all/end-all of competitive advantage is silly. Furthermore, your point actually serves to further mine in a way. Theoretically, a Menard should NEVER LOSE to a Many if private school attainment of kids is actually a huge advantage as split proponents would have us believe. Conveniently, they share a district and play annually. Makes for a nice case study! How's it working out for poor Many to have to deal with that private school that can get kids from anywhere ( Pineville, Houston, Oregon, NYC LOL) every year? Private status is not an automatic advantage and should not be a criteria for separataion. If we want to do something like Indiana does ( that plan has been posted here many times) then I'm ok with it, even though I personally think it was all fine before the split. I'm OK with it because it actually uses the issue in question ( disproportionate success) to separate. That equalizes all advantages. No school sees THEIR advantage as a problem - only the OTHER guys advantage is a problem. The current split unfairly impacts moderately successful private schools who will never be athletic factories by lumping them in with the John Curtis' of the state. These schools are paying members of LHSAA just as much as the top public schools who are the only ones gaining from this. Why is no one concerned about what it is doing to those schools? Not exactly true. Menard tried to get me an academic scholarship to play football years ago while I was at Arthur F. Smith, so there are workarounds. Whats sad was it was teachers pushing at my school, not just Menard, and what's worse, I wasn't all that great, just big.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2016 17:21:57 GMT -6
Random thoughts: Kinda funny to me that the arguments within this thread sort of would lead a person to believe that a rural/metro split would make more sense than a public/private split, even though that is not the intent. Saying that Many is like MP or Byrd is somewhat overstated, therefore making Many defenders a feel the need to lash back. But would it not be accurate to say that there is some advantage to the situation when compared to other 2A schools? Bottom line, the end result is that Many pulls a football team from a population of 1,109 students (Zwolle 201, Florien 152, Negreet 149, Converse 145, Ebarb 85, Pleasant Hill 71 plus Many's 306) but plays in 2A using only it's own enrollment of 306. Now, it has already been established by split supporters on here that it doesn't matter what a school does or does not do, only what it CAN do. If the argument that weaker private schools don't deserve consideration because they COULD become John Curtis, then it makes no actual difference exactly how many kids actually come to play football from thse other schools. Lack of interest, etc is not a consideration. Bottom line, the football team is derived from a pool of 1,109 students. This is undeniable fact. That is squarely in 4A territory. But Many feels like it needs to exclude schools like Menard ( who hasn't beaten Many in years), Northlake Christian, Sacred Heart because THOSE schools have an advantage? That's where the hate for the split comes from. Crap like that-- not actually trying to create competitive balance, just trying to kick out private schools for being private. Many may have access to 1109 students, but they very seldom get any students transferring. Not really a good point are argument at all! So. Lake Arthur gets kids from metropolitan Klondike, which is actually in Cameron parish, should they now be considered select?
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