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Post by btown on Nov 17, 2016 12:58:36 GMT -6
Booker and Griffen only have one vote. 65% of the LHSAA agree with them. Bonine was brought in to help bring things back together, but tried to strong arm everyone. Made the divide permanent. Booker/Griffin conspired, colluded, plotted and manipulated their clones for years, including non football schools to get their vote. This is common knowledge now with the LHSAA Wikileaks's due to the freedom of information act. The non football schools have been used by both sides to get what they want. This has gone on for years prior to the split. So you need to come up with something new, it sounds like you are a strong supporter of Bonine. Why did Trump win, because people blamed our problem on our leader today, . It starts with leadership.
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Post by indy on Nov 17, 2016 13:12:25 GMT -6
Booker/Griffin conspired, colluded, plotted and manipulated their clones for years, including non football schools to get their vote. This is common knowledge now with the LHSAA Wikileaks's due to the freedom of information act. The non football schools have been used by both sides to get what they want. This has gone on for years prior to the split. So you need to come up with something new, it sounds like you are a strong supporter of Bonine. Why did Trump win, because people blamed our problem on our leader today, . It starts with leadership. We were split before Bonine, he tried to resolve it, failed miserably. Agreed. But tell me, why did Booker/ Griffin feel the need to have seperate brackets in football?
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Post by btown on Nov 17, 2016 13:16:08 GMT -6
The non football schools have been used by both sides to get what they want. This has gone on for years prior to the split. So you need to come up with something new, it sounds like you are a strong supporter of Bonine. Why did Trump win, because people blamed our problem on our leader today, . It starts with leadership. We were split before Bonine, he tried to resolve it, failed miserably. Agreed. But tell me, why did Booker/ Griffin feel the need to have seperate brackets in football? Do not know them or why. Tell me what Bonine has done to resolve. I must have missed something.
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Post by cenlaman on Nov 17, 2016 13:28:38 GMT -6
Indy can't answer any of your questions B-town. He just throws out accusations and generalizations and hopes they stick. Like the other poster pointed out to him Griffen and Booker are only two votes. 65% of the principals voted for the split. Its easier for Indy to keep blaming Griffen/Booker than accepting the fact that the split was approved by an overwhelming vote.
Makes me wonder if his daddy knows hes on here with all this negativity.
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Post by btown on Nov 17, 2016 13:36:30 GMT -6
The LHSAA does have issue. I will not dispute that, anytime anyone wants so to pass something all you have to do is put something up to be changed in class B or C, then tell them if you vote with us we vote in your favor. I will give Indy that one. But until Bonine is held responsible nothing will change.
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Post by Raven on Nov 17, 2016 13:51:46 GMT -6
Indy can't answer any of your questions B-town. He just throws out accusations and generalizations and hopes they stick. Like the other poster pointed out to him Griffen and Booker are only two votes. 65% of the principals voted for the split. Its easier for Indy to keep blaming Griffen/Booker than accepting the fact that the split was approved by an overwhelming vote. Makes me wonder if his daddy knows hes on here with all this negativity. Please. 55% of the principals were conned, lied-to and bullied by the 10% that actually wanted the split. The whole reason that was given for the split is based on rumors and innuendo that some people accept as fact. The real reason behind it is the desire of that 10% of principals to be rid of private schools for good. That is their end game that they are working toward. They didn't count on the rise of the charter schools however, who have all the advantages that they claim private schools have and none of the tuition requirements to hold them back. There's your real advantage, and schools like Karr, Warren Easton and Madison Prep and using it to it's full extent.
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Post by btown on Nov 17, 2016 13:55:57 GMT -6
Indy can't answer any of your questions B-town. He just throws out accusations and generalizations and hopes they stick. Like the other poster pointed out to him Griffen and Booker are only two votes. 65% of the principals voted for the split. Its easier for Indy to keep blaming Griffen/Booker than accepting the fact that the split was approved by an overwhelming vote. Makes me wonder if his daddy knows hes on here with all this negativity. Please. 55% of the principals were conned, lied-to and bullied by the 10% that actually wanted the split. The whole reason that was given for the split is based on rumors and innuendo that some people accept as fact. The real reason behind it is the desire of that 10% of principals to be rid of private schools for good. That is their end game that they are working toward. They didn't count on the rise of the charter schools however, who have all the advantages that they claim private schools have and none of the tuition requirements to hold them back. There's your real advantage, and schools like Karr, Warren Easton and Madison Prep and using it to it's full extent. What is was the lie and con? How were they bullied?
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Post by mt on Nov 17, 2016 13:57:53 GMT -6
Please. 55% of the principals were conned, lied-to and bullied by the 10% that actually wanted the split. The whole reason that was given for the split is based on rumors and innuendo that some people accept as fact. The real reason behind it is the desire of that 10% of principals to be rid of private schools for good. That is their end game that they are working toward. They didn't count on the rise of the charter schools however, who have all the advantages that they claim private schools have and none of the tuition requirements to hold them back. There's your real advantage, and schools like Karr, Warren Easton and Madison Prep and using it to it's full extent. What is was the lie and con? How were they bullied? I can't wait to see this answer this is fascinating
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Post by publicgradprivatedad on Nov 17, 2016 14:02:32 GMT -6
We were split before Bonine, he tried to resolve it, failed miserably. Agreed. But tell me, why did Booker/ Griffin feel the need to have seperate brackets in football? Do not know them or why. Tell me what Bonine has done to resolve. I must have missed something. Bonine has done nothing to resolve except make it worse, I'll agree with you on that. As for Booker, I do know him, went to school with him. I think originally he was trying to fix what he and others thought was broken (perceived advantages). I know that he felt that JC and E had advantages that MHS didn't have so he was trying to make it more fair in his mind when they were forced to play to their enrollment numbers. This is why I would prefer a plan like the Indiana Plan, I've mentioned it to him before but never had time to fully discuss it with him. However I have talked to other people in Sabine Parish and they would consider something like this depending how it is brought up. I don't know Griffin.
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Post by cenlaman on Nov 17, 2016 14:05:27 GMT -6
Indy can't answer any of your questions B-town. He just throws out accusations and generalizations and hopes they stick. Like the other poster pointed out to him Griffen and Booker are only two votes. 65% of the principals voted for the split. Its easier for Indy to keep blaming Griffen/Booker than accepting the fact that the split was approved by an overwhelming vote. Makes me wonder if his daddy knows hes on here with all this negativity. Please. 55% of the principals were conned, lied-to and bullied by the 10% that actually wanted the split. The whole reason that was given for the split is based on rumors and innuendo that some people accept as fact. The real reason behind it is the desire of that 10% of principals to be rid of private schools for good. That is their end game that they are working toward. They didn't count on the rise of the charter schools however, who have all the advantages that they claim private schools have and none of the tuition requirements to hold them back. There's your real advantage, and schools like Karr, Warren Easton and Madison Prep and using it to it's full extent. Let me guess. You are somewhere right now protesting Trump being elected because only 3% of the country wanted him as President and they bullied, lied and conned 47% of voters into voting for Trump too even though they didn't really want him.
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Post by indy on Nov 17, 2016 14:11:47 GMT -6
Indy can't answer any of your questions B-town. He just throws out accusations and generalizations and hopes they stick. Like the other poster pointed out to him Griffen and Booker are only two votes. 65% of the principals voted for the split. Its easier for Indy to keep blaming Griffen/Booker than accepting the fact that the split was approved by an overwhelming vote. Makes me wonder if his daddy knows hes on here with all this negativity. I think I can answer and do. I was in route from Crowley to lafayette with my daughter. As an example to her I keep my phone in my pocket when I drive. Me and Btown have been arguing for over a year without a moderator, especially from if all places, the football factory Mecca of cenla. but thanks. I don't always answer and neither does he, sometimes he answers my questions with questions. We seldom agree on anything but we have learned to respect each other besides our differences. Again thanks for your two cents worth of time.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 14:13:18 GMT -6
The biggest mistake Bonine ever made in my opinion was when he tried to resend the split days before the annual convention. I think this is what sealed the fate of the split because it made all public school join forces and even those that were on the fence saw that Bonine was a "private" school guy and that he did not like publics. Had he never tried to do this, then the split might have not been voted back in and something else could have replaced it. I am not sure Bonine has ever called in X number of public principals/coaches and X number of private principals/coaches, locked the door, and said lets figure it out, find something we all can agree on. This is what a leader should do.
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Post by warhorsepride on Nov 17, 2016 14:15:28 GMT -6
It didn't happen because my choice was already made. I knew I was going to Peabody, my family had gone to Peabody going all the way back to the 50's, I wanted to attend Peabody all my life, it was a no-brainer to me. I had paperwork sat in front of me, saying I would not pay a dime to go to Menard on academics that were good, but did not meet their scholarship requirements but room could be made regardless, because I was a minority. It was expressed that they could use someone of my size on the football team. Maybe I'm wrong and that was not all for sports reason but that's how it felt to me even though it was expressed in a way which was actually disrespectful to my A lma Mater. It was said to me, that Menard would give me opportunities at colleges that I would not receive from going to Peabody, academically. No, Menard is not a major private program but that shows that these things run deep, not just the major programs. This could, not saying it does, but could happen anywhere. Everyone knows we've been accused of it, and on the girls side, proven to be true about 10 years ago. There's many different fixes that could be proposed but in the end, someone is always gonna be pissed, its not being pessimistic, its just true. I think the LHSAA creating zones is not a bad idea. Parish Wide Only for Parishes that have 1 or more Privates, all would feed from 1 zone. Parishes without, maybe be assigned or delegated to the closest Private based on area. All Public schools under Parish zone. Then you regulate all of this with Transfer Policies to deter flipping, such as a sit out penalty or so forth. That way Parishes with more than 1 private, can't go where ever they choose, or flip often. That plan isn't perfect but right now we don't need a perfect plan, we need the base of a plan. And thanks eag, glad to know I'm a favorite poster of yours man. Thanks for sharing that story - interesting perspective. It kind of shows a couple of things, not the least of which is that even with offer for free tuition, you did not end up going there. So, once again, this concept that 'private schools get whoever they want' is shown to be less than accurate. You had options as a kid- could go to Peabody Magnet, could go to Menard, possibly could go to another school like ASH or Bolton depending where you lived( couldn't Peabody pull from those even before the open enrollment?). Currently any kid in Rapides has all those options plus Pineville. I don't see how options are bad or should be limited. Imagine if you grew up wanting to be a Warhorse but weren't allowed to play sports there because you lived one street over?No one denies that schools both public and private try to get players. Our private school lost all - district players to public schools between jr and sr years twice in the last 3 years. Didn't have to offer any scholarships either, lol. So there's evidence of schools doing that on both sides and I don't think anyone denies that. That's why i support a sit out rule with exception of bonafide family moves. The other issue that your story brings up that is interesting is that, as you stated, the school that tried to convince you to attend isn't a major private power. That leads me to conclude one of these things: 1) they do not do very much of that 2) it is really hard to get kids to move to schools they didn't originally plan to attend even when barriers are eliminated 3) being able to get some kids from out of zone doesn't lead to automatic success. All of these argue, in my opinion, that we need some other factor aside from private status if we are going to separate schools and ruin what has been fantastic high school football in La. I'm a well known proponent of a success metric. I'm also ok with a multiplier. I'm very much ok with a sit out rule for transfers as long as bonafide moves are exempted. I'm not ok with making a kid sit if his parent gets transferred or gets a new job. Sports are too important in the high school experience to cheat them of that ( note I said sports, not championships). I'm not ok with arbitrary split rules like we have now. Bottom line, Many doesn't need 'protection' from Pope John Paul, and PJP needs as much 'protection' from Riverside or ND as any public school if we are going to say that ' protection' is important. That actually was the case. I went before open enrollment so I didn't get a choice other than the Magnet Schools, but on it was set up on Broadway that way. The same street where Peabody sits on the intersection, maybe 6 blocks down. One side and Broadway was Peabody, one side behind the actual street was Tioga. It was that close, from me walking 10 mins to schools or being bussed 30-40 mins into the woods. I agree with most of what you said and the success metric, I think could work, but it would have to truly be plotted out thoroughly before hand. I think there as exceptions, yes, on transferring and being able to play, but I've stated too, that there should be some sort of committee to look over these transfers, regularity of them, make eligibility a process if you do. It needs to be valid and not collusion. The sit out rule in Rapides worked very well to deter those, that's the only reason I like it. It eliminated it almost over night.
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Post by chalmetteowl on Nov 17, 2016 14:26:39 GMT -6
Please. 55% of the principals were conned, lied-to and bullied by the 10% that actually wanted the split. The whole reason that was given for the split is based on rumors and innuendo that some people accept as fact. The real reason behind it is the desire of that 10% of principals to be rid of private schools for good. That is their end game that they are working toward. They didn't count on the rise of the charter schools however, who have all the advantages that they claim private schools have and none of the tuition requirements to hold them back. There's your real advantage, and schools like Karr, Warren Easton and Madison Prep and using it to it's full extent. Let me guess. You are somewhere right now protesting Trump being elected because only 3% of the country wanted him as President and they bullied, lied and conned 47% of voters into voting for Trump too even though they didn't really want him. i can believe that... lots of Trump voters didn't really like him but hated a woman president more
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Post by btown on Nov 17, 2016 14:27:59 GMT -6
The biggest mistake Bonine ever made in my opinion was when he tried to resend the split days before the annual convention. I think this is what sealed the fate of the split because it made all public school join forces and even those that were on the fence saw that Bonine was a "private" school guy and that he did not like publics. Had he never tried to do this, then the split might have not been voted back in and something else could have replaced it. I am not sure Bonine has ever called in X number of public principals/coaches and X number of private principals/coaches, locked the door, and said lets figure it out, find something we all can agree on. This is what a leader should do. Finally someone gets it. Bonine sealed the split in when he tried to resend the split days before the annual convention.
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Post by Raven on Nov 17, 2016 14:28:46 GMT -6
Please. 55% of the principals were conned, lied-to and bullied by the 10% that actually wanted the split. The whole reason that was given for the split is based on rumors and innuendo that some people accept as fact. The real reason behind it is the desire of that 10% of principals to be rid of private schools for good. That is their end game that they are working toward. They didn't count on the rise of the charter schools however, who have all the advantages that they claim private schools have and none of the tuition requirements to hold them back. There's your real advantage, and schools like Karr, Warren Easton and Madison Prep and using it to it's full extent. What is was the lie and con? How were they bullied? The lie that private schools have an unfair advantage. The lie that successful private schools must be cheating. The lie that private schools steal athletes from the poor, downtrodden public schools who simply can't compete. Should I go on? They were bullied in that no one with a dissenting opinion or a viable alternative to the split was given any reasonable chance to present it. While I agree that comes down to poor leadership, it did not start with Bonine. Kenny Henderson was just as much to blame.
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Post by Raven on Nov 17, 2016 14:29:56 GMT -6
Please. 55% of the principals were conned, lied-to and bullied by the 10% that actually wanted the split. The whole reason that was given for the split is based on rumors and innuendo that some people accept as fact. The real reason behind it is the desire of that 10% of principals to be rid of private schools for good. That is their end game that they are working toward. They didn't count on the rise of the charter schools however, who have all the advantages that they claim private schools have and none of the tuition requirements to hold them back. There's your real advantage, and schools like Karr, Warren Easton and Madison Prep and using it to it's full extent. Let me guess. You are somewhere right now protesting Trump being elected because only 3% of the country wanted him as President and they bullied, lied and conned 47% of voters into voting for Trump too even though they didn't really want him. Wrong twice in one day. You might want to stop now before you make it 0 for 3.
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Post by indy on Nov 17, 2016 14:35:00 GMT -6
If the split was about unfair advantages that private schools have, why didn't it start with volleyball? Of all the LHSAA sports VB more than any other sport is dominated by private schools, to the tune of 95%. Why didn't Booker take up this cause? Football is 50-50. If he cares so much about equity why not start where it is the most obvious?
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Post by eag on Nov 17, 2016 14:49:42 GMT -6
What is was the lie and con? How were they bullied? I can't wait to see this answer this is fascinating Question wasn't directed at me but here are my thoughts: "Lie and con" may be overstated, but what happened was that some people felt there was competitive imbalance. The only solution ever offered was a split. No consideration of other options, just split. Well, 65% or whatever of schools felt there was an issue, so they voted on the only solution offered. To be clear, I think this is a failing of the LHSAA. No way in he(( should proposals like this be offered from the members themselves. That is the purpose of an EC. The member schools should have hammered the EC for a solution, then the EC could have investigated and crafted something that helped solve imbalances for all affected. Booker, Griffen, etc ( any principal) is not worried about any school other than their own. That is what the organization as a whole is supposed to do - craft policy that takes the whole into account. Principals can then vote based on their own interest. In that case, some kind of metric/multiplier/play up solution would likely have passed. Schools were going to vote for a solution. They were only offered one, and it was a bad one because it was only crafted with the good of SOME of the member schools in mind since it was crafted BY member schools. That isn't how a good system works.
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Post by TC_Cant_Hang on Nov 17, 2016 15:48:57 GMT -6
Guys, I'm gonna have to move this tired shindig to the non-sports board. I
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 16:24:52 GMT -6
Kinder has 2 kids from Elton. Many, may or may not have 1 kid from zwolle? I can't speak for Many. Maybe fridaynights can shed some light. Are u honestly trying to compare kinder and Many to a school that pulls from a population of over 200,000 counting Lafayette? I don't care whether y'all are with us or not. Public/private, metro/rural, district, or non district. I just said earlier that it was not a good analogy. It's something and Hillary would say in the fact it's stupid and makes no sense! None of this is remotely relevant to my question. It is how we ended up with the split -- rhetoric and rumors. What asking is what rule allowed shelvin to play at ND that would not allow him to have played at Kinder or Welsh? Here's a hint -- there is none. He could just as easily transferred to those schools and played in exactly the same way.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 16:28:33 GMT -6
None of this is remotely relevant to my question. It is how we ended up with the split -- rhetoric and rumors. What asking is what rule allowed shelvin to play at ND that would not allow him to have played at Kinder or Welsh? Here's a hint -- there is none. He could just as easily transferred to those schools and played in exactly the same way. Did his family make a legitimate move to ND school zone or are they still living in the same house they lived in when he attended his previous school?
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Post by indy on Nov 17, 2016 16:29:37 GMT -6
Did his family make a legitimate move to ND school zone or are they still living in the same house they lived in when he attended his previous school? They moved to Crowley
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 16:35:57 GMT -6
Did his family make a legitimate move to ND school zone or are they still living in the same house they lived in when he attended his previous school? They moved to Crowley Then I don't believe there is a difference, had his legal guardian (not aunt, grandma, close friend) moved to Welsh/Kinder then he would be eligible at those schools. The difference in the two is that even had he not moved from his previous house he could still attend ND but would have to sit out a year (I think he would have to sit not 100% sure), however he could not enroll at Kinder/Welsh, because he does not live in their zone. Thats the argument between select/non-select, where can they get their kids.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 16:43:07 GMT -6
Kinder has 2 kids from Elton. Many, may or may not have 1 kid from zwolle? I can't speak for Many. Maybe fridaynights can shed some light. Are u honestly trying to compare kinder and Many to a school that pulls from a population of over 200,000 counting Lafayette? I don't care whether y'all are with us or not. Public/private, metro/rural, district, or non district. I just said earlier that it was not a good analogy. It's something and Hillary would say in the fact it's stupid and makes no sense! None of this is remotely relevant to my question. It is how we ended up with the split -- rhetoric and rumors. What asking is what rule allowed shelvin to play at ND that would not allow him to have played at Kinder or Welsh? Here's a hint -- there is none. He could just as easily transferred to those schools and played in exactly the same way. First of all. Kinder has a great deal of respect for Notre Dame, Coach Cook, and their staff. Good luck in the playoffs! You are correct with the question you asked. Its just fun to "mess" with Indy! We all have a good time with him! I, nor anyone else in Kinder, believes Notre Dame is doing anything wrong, underhanded, or illegal. I know for a FACT Kinder isn't doing anything. I also believe Many is NOT gaining an advantage by being the only school in the parish that has football. Kinder respects Many. I have no problem defending them! When our names are mentioned by Indy, we are naturally going to say something back. I'm not certain what things are going to look like in the January meeting? Will we see metro/rural? Will we see a multiplier? Will we see metro/rural with a multiplier? Will everything stay as is? That's something that the proposers will attempt to hash out after the playoffs.
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Post by indy on Nov 17, 2016 19:57:54 GMT -6
Then I don't believe there is a difference, had his legal guardian (not aunt, grandma, close friend) moved to Welsh/Kinder then he would be eligible at those schools. The difference in the two is that even had he not moved from his previous house he could still attend ND but would have to sit out a year (I think he would have to sit not 100% sure), however he could not enroll at Kinder/Welsh, because he does not live in their zone. Thats the argument between select/non-select, where can they get their kids. Seriously? What did you coach, beer pong? He transferred as a jr after the football season. He couldn't sit out a year anywhere and be eligible. He had to move, and could have moved anywhere he wanted to, including Kinder.,
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Post by indy on Nov 17, 2016 20:05:32 GMT -6
None of this is remotely relevant to my question. It is how we ended up with the split -- rhetoric and rumors. What asking is what rule allowed shelvin to play at ND that would not allow him to have played at Kinder or Welsh? Here's a hint -- there is none. He could just as easily transferred to those schools and played in exactly the same way. First of all. Kinder has a great deal of respect for Notre Dame, Coach Cook, and their staff. Good luck in the playoffs! You are correct with the question you asked. Its just fun to "mess" with Indy! We all have a good time with him! I, nor anyone else in Kinder, believes Notre Dame is doing anything wrong, underhanded, or illegal. I know for a FACT Kinder isn't doing anything. I also believe Many is NOT gaining an advantage by being the only school in the parish that has football. Kinder respects Many. I have no problem defending them! When our names are mentioned by Indy, we are naturally going to say something back. I'm not certain what things are going to look like in the January meeting? Will we see metro/rural? Will we see a multiplier? Will we see metro/rural with a multiplier? Will everything stay as is? That's something that the proposers will attempt to hash out after the playoffs. . Of course y'all will defend Many. Y'all have duped the rest of 2a in believing y'all are like the rest of them. Yea right. Don't worry about me, worry about the rest of 2a, they will turn on y'all. Get use to multiplayers, metrics, or whatever. Good luck.
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Post by pinion on Nov 17, 2016 20:28:35 GMT -6
I can't wait to see this answer this is fascinating Question wasn't directed at me but here are my thoughts: "Lie and con" may be overstated, but what happened was that some people felt there was competitive imbalance. The only solution ever offered was a split. No consideration of other options, just split. Well, 65% or whatever of schools felt there was an issue, so they voted on the only solution offered. To be clear, I think this is a failing of the LHSAA. No way in he(( should proposals like this be offered from the members themselves. That is the purpose of an EC. The member schools should have hammered the EC for a solution, then the EC could have investigated and crafted something that helped solve imbalances for all affected. Booker, Griffen, etc ( any principal) is not worried about any school other than their own. That is what the organization as a whole is supposed to do - craft policy that takes the whole into account. Principals can then vote based on their own interest. In that case, some kind of metric/multiplier/play up solution would likely have passed. Schools were going to vote for a solution. They were only offered one, and it was a bad one because it was only crafted with the good of SOME of the member schools in mind since it was crafted BY member schools. That isn't how a good system works. Lie is not overstated at all. The gentleman from Many said, out loud and in front of people, that private schools cheat to get an advantage over public schools. He's a liar. The "con" part is that the split was proposed to level the playing field. I don't even think pro-split folks really believe that. The con was the lie that private schools cheat to create an unlevel playing field and that the split would right all that unlevelness and make everything peachy. Meanwhile, the gentleman from Many has made sure that no schools other than Many have a football team in Sabine parish. That way anybody wanting to play football will have to come to Many HS since there are no other football options. And he still manages to still keep his beloved program in non-select, even though he's selecting who will and won't go to Many HS. It's a con. and it's built on outright lies. I'd like to say what I wish would happen to the gentleman from Many, but some people take that as a "threat" and get their panties in a wad over it. So, with that being said, I'd like to take the gentleman from Many out to a baseball game sometime.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2016 6:00:20 GMT -6
Many is happy with being below average. They r scared of competition. LMAO
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Post by indy on Nov 18, 2016 7:27:45 GMT -6
Many is happy with being below average. They r scared of competition. LMAO Best of mediocre! Something to strive for
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